EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

[Ispolkom]

Train had to detour because the late arrival would put it through during a CP track work window.

What route did it take?

 

[railpost]

Train had to detour because the late arrival would put it through during a CP track work window.

Yes I just called Amtrak that they confirmed that number 8 that was due on Friday August 17 2012 at 3:55 pm isn't due in until Saturday morning August 18 at 4:00 am. .The reservation agent said that the train was being rerouted between "Milwaukee and Chicago" but didn't confirm the route.

That means that the Builder could be running on the Wisconsin Central (Ex Soo Line) or she could have been going by a false assumption and the train could have still been rerouted on the former Burlington and Quincy (Burlington Northern)..

 

 

[NW cannonball]

Train had to detour because the late arrival would put it through during a CP track work window.

Yes I just called Amtrak that they confirmed that number 8 that was due on Friday August 17 2012 at 3:55 pm isn't due in until Saturday morning August 18 at 4:00 am. .The reservation agent said that the train was being rerouted between "Milwaukee and Chicago" but didn't confirm the route.

That means that the Builder could be running on the Wisconsin Central (Ex Soo Line) or she could have been going by a false assumption and the train could have still been rerouted on the former Burlington and Quincy (Burlington Northern)..

 

Most likely it will go the BNSF along the east bank of the Mississippi. Speed on that line may be as much as 60 mph - recall that when the EB detoured that way back in the floods a few years ago that the limiting speed was account of signaling and grade crossing speed all set for fast freights, no provision for passenger train speeds. Half a century ago rode that stretch on the CBQ Zephyr as a very young child - but no way to go that fast on that line now.

Doubt that they would detour on the WC - would have to go back to Northtown - and the ex Soo now WC is much slower track. Doesn't handle any fast freights at all. But it would be extremely rare mileage if they did take the EB that way . Likely wouldn't get to Chicago until late afternoon, not 3 or 4 am.

About "track work windows" - a railroad, like a train, is very long and very narrow. Any mainline track is used as near capacity as the railroad can manage. So when they have to do track work - it's plan, plan, plan - have the track crew on-site and ready - and when they get their few hours to work they work as fast as possible - because - unlike freeway road work - every hour is costing the railroad revenue (for freeway work the cost of backups it just foisted on the road user). Busting a track maintenance "window" almost never happens - because the track crew is lined up and ready to work fast - and if they can't do the work as scheduled their whole pay and equipment rent is just wasted and will have to be rescheduled with more revenue loss.

 

[montana mike]

An update for fellow readers on today's EB out of CHI. I am currently sitting on the train--going nowhere. Scheduled departure was 2:15 as always, but the new time estimate is close to 5 PM now. Why the delay--a 400MV line between an engine and the baggage car blew while in the station. They decided to board us, even though it will still be at least another hour or so, while they decouple one of the engines and the baggage car and take them back to the yard and replace them with another engine and baggage car. Soooooo, we will begin our journey likely close to 3 hours late, which means this sucker will likely be 6-7 hours late by the end of its journey in a couple days, given the continuing delays across the hi-line.

C'est La Vie'

:-((

 

[PRR 60]

An update for fellow readers on today's EB out of CHI. I am currently sitting on the train--going nowhere. Scheduled departure was 2:15 as always, but the new time estimate is close to 5 PM now. Why the delay--a 400MV line between an engine and the baggage car blew while in the station. They decided to board us, even though it will still be at least another hour or so, while they decouple one of the engines and the baggage car and take them back to the yard and replace them with another engine and baggage car. Soooooo, we will begin our journey likely close to 3 hours late, which means this sucker will likely be 6-7 hours late by the end of its journey in a couple days, given the continuing delays across the hi-line.

C'est La Vie'

:-((

They might as well order the buses at Spokane right now.

 

[Texan Eagle]

An update for fellow readers on today's EB out of CHI. I am currently sitting on the train--going nowhere. Scheduled departure was 2:15 as always, but the new time estimate is close to 5 PM now. Why the delay--a 400MV line between an engine and the baggage car blew while in the station. They decided to board us, even though it will still be at least another hour or so, while they decouple one of the engines and the baggage car and take them back to the yard and replace them with another engine and baggage car. Soooooo, we will begin our journey likely close to 3 hours late, which means this sucker will likely be 6-7 hours late by the end of its journey in a couple days, given the continuing delays across the hi-line.

C'est La Vie'

:-((

The EB seems to be hell bent on creating a new record for Maximum Number of Different Ways To Get Delayed

 

[NY Penn]

An update for fellow readers on today's EB out of CHI. I am currently sitting on the train--going nowhere. Scheduled departure was 2:15 as always, but the new time estimate is close to 5 PM now. Why the delay--a 400MV line between an engine and the baggage car blew while in the station. They decided to board us, even though it will still be at least another hour or so, while they decouple one of the engines and the baggage car and take them back to the yard and replace them with another engine and baggage car. Soooooo, we will begin our journey likely close to 3 hours late, which means this sucker will likely be 6-7 hours late by the end of its journey in a couple days, given the continuing delays across the hi-line.

C'est La Vie'

:-((

They might as well order the buses at Spokane right now.

The sixth consist negates the need for Spokane buses.

 

[montana mike]

Sunday update on the eastbound EB in ND now. Running about 4 hours late--only have lost about 30 additional minutes since leaving CHI 3 1/2 hours late--too bad we started so late. Shouldn't have any heat issues today--temps forecasted to be in the upper 70's to around 80 at best even in MT. So hopefully we won't lose any more time. I likely have just jinxed this trip with my comments now.

Interesting looking at the track work around Devil's Lake. Looks like this will be a long term project to raise the tracks. Huge amounts of rock and steel beams along side of the tracks and in cars in Devil's Lake. Even though there was no work going on today the train still has slow orders thru this entire section, so we poked along at around 20-30 miles an hour for perhaps 30-45 minutes. A great view of the lake and wildlife though.

 

[orion]

Listening to the rail scanner in Grand Forks Monday night, looks like another round of troubles plaguing the empire builder. 8 lost well over an hour due to signal troubles around Thompson, ND south of GFK and then forced to meet 7 further north in Buxton instead of Hillsboro. Last night (Sunday night), signal troubles were reported just south of the station.

 

[Ispolkom]

Not much new in this article on the Empire Builder. I was surprised that the BNSF spokesman said that the number of trains through Minot had held steady. The interior photo accompanying the article shows the glory that is the Minot temporary waiting room, one I've used since 2008, I think.

 

[montana mike]

What the BNSF person did NOT say though was the amount of tonnage had increased. I asked my local BNSF contacts about this comment and they chuckled. The length of the tanker car trains heading east out of ND has increased thru better utilization of engines and they have been able to cobble together some very long trains in the process. So while the number of trains may not be up dramatically, the tonnage has increased and is scheduled to jump big time in early 2013 when the tanker loading facilities are completed in ND.

It has been frustrating for many residents of the high line this entire year to try to book reservations on the EB. The trains are often totally booked, especially the sleepers, and Amtrak has yet to respond to the two MT senators' call to add cars to the EB. My guess is the extra equipment is just not available, which is too bad, since the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

 

[Trogdor]

Amtrak has yet to respond to the two MT senators' call to add cars to the EB.

I laugh when I read about the senators up there calling for increased capacity.

Amtrak has had a fleet plan in place for three or four years now. Total federal appropriations to buy new cars: $0.

Total increase in federal appropriations to add trains: $0.

That is what I call political grandstanding. The senator can go back to his constituents and say "I asked/screamed/shouted at Amtrak to add capacity. Therefore I'm doing my job, so keep voting for me."

 

[Ryan]

My guess is the extra equipment is just not available, which is too bad, since the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

That guess is totally correct, and a a repeated story all over Amtrak.

Hopefully Amtrak can find a way to obtain some more rolling stock and expand capacity. Going to be tough to do in today's political environment. I wonder what the two MT senators voting record is on Amtrak related bills?

 

[CHamilton]

It has been frustrating for many residents of the high line this entire year to try to book reservations on the EB. The trains are often totally booked, especially the sleepers, and Amtrak has yet to respond to the two MT senators' call to add cars to the EB. My guess is the extra equipment is just not available, which is too bad, since the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

There was an interesting post yesterday on the Facebook Empire Builder group:

...we managed to scrounge up an extra trainset. That trainset sits overnight in Seattle and Portland so that there will be an on time Train 8 everyday. It's been working quite well for the last week. Even if we're close to on time, we're still turning the older train set. The heat restrictions are less common now, and the derailment is cleared up. I was almost on time today.

I'm guessing that what little equipment Amtrak could find went to the extra trainset, and was unavailable for use as additional cars. But interestingly, I was just able to get a last-minute roomette SEA-GPK for Labor Day weekend, so the west end of the run, at least, has some availability.

 

[fairviewroad]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

 

[user 1215]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

 

[fairviewroad]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

Oh, I agree...and we may as well say that (vis-a-vis more efficient dining car services) since we're operating in a fantasy world right now in terms of even adding cars in the first place.

 

[OBS]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

That sounds great unless you are the passenger that is forced to eat your dinner at !0:00 pm because there was no room until then...

 

[johnny.menhennet]

1345739296[/url]' post='389043']

1345736098[/url]' post='389031']

1345734393[/url]' post='389024']the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

Well probably the best solution on here is to do the plan to move the SSL to the Seattle section and put a full CCC on the PDX section. You could add one coach and one sleeper for each section of the train. You would make the diner sleeper only, and the CCC coach only, first come first serve. You would just leave a notice for coach passengers on the Seattle section that they will not be offered meals on the first night/last morning. Adding even one car of any type would not be okay as is. You cannot make the diner crew work so much. Assuming they have to start prepping 30 minutes (and often more) before the first serving, on a larger train they wold be working 5:30-10, 10:30-3:00, and 4:30-10. That is far too much. I agree with VentureForth that we need to kick out Da Bums during serving times.

 

[amamba]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

That sounds great unless you are the passenger that is forced to eat your dinner at !0:00 pm because there was no room until then...

Or a staff member in the dining car who has worked from 5 am to 10 pm with barely a break in there.

 

[Ispolkom]

That sounds great unless you are the passenger that is forced to eat your dinner at !0:00 pm because there was no room until then...

Which happens even now. On some summer trips I've boarded #8 in Minot at 9:45 p.m. and been asked if I wanted dinner.

 

[fairviewroad]

That sounds great unless you are the passenger that is forced to eat your dinner at !0:00 pm because there was no room until then...

Which happens even now. On some summer trips I've boarded #8 in Minot at 9:45 p.m. and been asked if I wanted dinner.

In June we were on #8 which was about 30 minutes late leaving Minot, and after we left Minot they were still calling dinner reservations

over the intercom, which at that point was about 10:15 p.m. local time. The thing there is that dinner on the #8 goes on Mountain Time,

so from the dining car's perspective it was still "only" 9:15.

 

[AlanB]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

No, you need another diner or something else if you want the coach passengers to be able to get in, assuming that there are 5 sleepers.

One dining car can seat 72, but that is really hard on the crew as there is limited room to prep all the things. So I'll take away 1 table of 4, which brings us to 68. On the Auto Train, where they max out the diners, they can do 3 seatings with a full crew. That's 204 passengers that can be served.

And please keep in mind that this does not allow for the OBS crew to eat anything and the are entitled to meals.

Now, 1 Superliner sleeper has 13 roomettes, so assuming max capacity that's 26 people. There are 5 Bedrooms, which brings another 10 to the party, and then 4 in the family room for a grand total of 40 people. With 5 sleepers, that would be exactly 200 people needing to be fed, if all rooms were at rated capacity.

That would mean that 4 people from coach could be accommodated for dinner maximum.

Now if they adapted the AT idea of seating people in half the cafe car, then they could feed more coach passengers.

However, the best solution remains the original plan for the Stimulus cars that got bumped by the Daily Eagle plan that never happened.

That original plan as noted already, was to add a CCC to the consist and send that to Portland instead of the Sightseer Lounge.

 

[CHamilton]

Sorry, I see that Ispolkom has already posted this link.

All aboard

More passengers riding the rail in western N.D.

Ridership at the Stanley station is up 71 percent for the fiscal year through July, compared to the same period a year ago, according to figures from Amtrak. The number of passengers getting on and off is estimated to reach 10,000 by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, up from 6,146 passengers in 2011.

Ridership at the Williston station is up 84 percent for the fiscal year so far. Passenger numbers are projected to reach 55,000 by the end of September, a jump from 29,920 passengers in 2011.

Williston, which has been the 11th most active station on the Empire Builder line, is expected to become the sixth busiest. Stanley is on a rise from about 40th place to 24th, said Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari, Chicago.

 

[Guest]

the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

If they added a couple of sleepers and coaches, they would need to either

a) add another diner

or

b) tell coach passengers to simply forget about eating in the diner. It can be difficult for a coach passenger to get into the diner as it is...add even a single sleeper

and you may as well forget about it.

Another answer to capacity issues, obviously, is to add a second frequency. But that's an even longer shot than adding a few cars onto an existing train.

Don't necessarily need to add a Diner. Keeping it open longer with less down time in between meals is a step in the right direction (and something I wish the Silvers would do). Also kick out Da Bums (ie: Crew) and maximize the efficiency.

Oh, I agree...and we may as well say that (vis-a-vis more efficient dining car services) since we're operating in a fantasy world right now in terms of even adding cars in the first place.

I know it would only work for the Seattle section but why not add an amfleet or horizon coach ahead of the transition sleeper. I know it might not have ideal legroom but for shorter trips it would be fine. Not sure how many extra single level coaches are around.