EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

[Swadian Hardcore]

Sorry, I see that Ispolkom has already posted this link.

All aboard

More passengers riding the rail in western N.D.

Ridership at the Stanley station is up 71 percent for the fiscal year through July, compared to the same period a year ago, according to figures from Amtrak. The number of passengers getting on and off is estimated to reach 10,000 by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, up from 6,146 passengers in 2011.

Ridership at the Williston station is up 84 percent for the fiscal year so far. Passenger numbers are projected to reach 55,000 by the end of September, a jump from 29,920 passengers in 2011.

Williston, which has been the 11th most active station on the Empire Builder line, is expected to become the sixth busiest. Stanley is on a rise from about 40th place to 24th, said Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari, Chicago.

It''s interesting that the picture on the link shows the station with only one potential passenger.

 

[montana mike]

I just noticed the westbound EB just spent 5 hours in Glasgow this afternoon--any idea as to what happened?

Bummer.

 

[anir dendroica]

I just noticed the westbound EB just spent 5 hours in Glasgow this afternoon--any idea as to what happened?

Bummer.

Per Mark M. on the EB Yahoo Group, there was a fire west of Wolf Point. Didn't spend 5 hours in Glasgow, but did arrive in Glasgow over six hours late after waiting five hours for the fire.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I just noticed the westbound EB just spent 5 hours in Glasgow this afternoon--any idea as to what happened?

Bummer.

Per Mark M. on the EB Yahoo Group, there was a fire west of Wolf Point. Didn't spend 5 hours in Glasgow, but did arrive in Glasgow over six hours late after waiting five hours for the fire.

What caused the fire?

 

[JayPea]

I just noticed the westbound EB just spent 5 hours in Glasgow this afternoon--any idea as to what happened?

Bummer.

Per Mark M. on the EB Yahoo Group, there was a fire west of Wolf Point. Didn't spend 5 hours in Glasgow, but did arrive in Glasgow over six hours late after waiting five hours for the fire.

What caused the fire?

Lightning, most likely.

 

[montana mike]

I know that area well. Hardly a tree within miles, must have been a scrubby brush fire. Not very much to burn in that neck of the woods. Just when things were trying to settle down again--this train can't catch a break this year.

:-((

 

[gn2276]

The problem is not that there are not enogh car to add to the train but that right now with the number of cars that are run on the Empire Builder any more cars added to the train you would need to add another loco and that is where Amtrak is short on.

 

[AlanB]

Actually Amtrak has more locomotives today than it had 2 years ago, thanks to the restoration of the 15 P40's with Stimulus monies.

 

[Trogdor]

That doesn't mean the locomotive fleet isn't still stretched thin.

The west coast F59s are dropping like flies due to age and lack of major rebuilds (currently going on, slowly, as engines get cycled through Beech Grove). Then there are the added state-supported services (Virginia expansion, for example) that require more diesels.

Then there's the 110 mph running in Michigan which requires double-ending P42s because NPCU/cabbage cars aren't rated for 110 mph.

Amtrak isn't swimming in extra power. If not for the 15 stimulus P40s, they'd probably be canceling trains (or leasing a lot more freight locomotives).

 

[yarrow]

nation's top long distance train plagued by lateness

 

[montana mike]

Interesting take from the Detroit newspaper! They are correct about one thing-one does have to look at the trip as an adventure-mostly pleasant, but with the occasional really odd happening!!!!

I wonder why Amtrak is saying there is a service disruption for today's #8 EB from Seattle if they have the second train set? Obviously today's arrival of #7-almost 8 hours late-is a factor, but if the second set of cars is already in SEA and PDX, why the Service disruption?

:-((

 

[winterskigirl]

I saw #7 EB fly through Edmonds, WA this afternoon at 5:10 PM which is normally when #8 should be outbound from Seattle. The other 3 EB's are en-route. I'd expect they'll hold in Seattle for turnaround for tomorrow's departure @ 4:40 PM Thus the "service disruption". But, what do they do about today's passengers?

 

[DET63]

Even if you fly, it is not wise to plan to attend important/expensive events on the day of arrival. Flights get delayed and canceled too. I am sorry you are inconvenienced. IMHO, jumping of the train, and rushing to the airport, may not guarantee you arriving in time to make your dinner reservations. One thing goes wrong, and you dumped a signifiant additional amount of money down the toilet.

Your best bet is to call the restaurant and see if they will work with you. Call the play house and see if they can work an exchange for you or something.

Good luck.

Yet many people routinely do just that, sometimes going to and from a destination on the same day. They expect planes to arrive within no more than 15 minutes of published or advertised arrival times. If a flight is delayed, there's usually another (at least between major cities) leaving within the hour, if not the half hour. Perhaps we've been spoiled by air travel, but it tends to be fairly reliable, as others on here have attested in this thread.

 

[DET63]

I saw #7 EB fly through Edmonds, WA this afternoon at 5:10 PM which is normally when #8 should be outbound from Seattle. The other 3 EB's are en-route. I'd expect they'll hold in Seattle for turnaround for tomorrow's departure @ 4:40 PM Thus the "service disruption". But, what do they do about today's passengers?

Bustitution, at least to Spokane? I really don't know.

Does anyone know what in fact did happen?

 

[montana mike]

And yet I see that #28 from PDX left on time this evening heading to Spokane before #27 even arrived in Portland! And now #8 left SEA 3 hours and 50 minutes late, after having shown as a Service Disruption. I wonder why they didn't use the extra equipment they had in SEA? Of course #28 will have to wait a long time in SPK for #8 arrive, which will mean by the time the combined train arrives in Chicago it will, once again, be very late.

Bummer.

 

[winterskigirl]

Yep. #8 has indeed left Seattle.........3 hours and 50 minutes late. Looks like they were able to "turn-around" the #7 westbound in under 4 hours.

 

[EB_OBS]

The extra equipment is in regular rotation. Normally, there should be no need to use the inbound #7/27 equipment as long as we have the extra train set.

Today however, I don't know why, I'm on vacation, but the extra equipment in Seattle was short a locomotive and a coach.

 

[montana mike]

Rats--Sounds like someone bet that they wouldn't need that locomotive and coach car and used it for another train. So does that mean now that Amtrak no longer has an extra set, since missing those cars is like not having another one anyway?

The extra equipment is in regular rotation. Normally, there should be no need to use the inbound #7/27 equipment as long as we have the extra train set.

Today however, I don't know why, I'm on vacation, but the extra equipment in Seattle was short a locomotive and a coach.

 

[yarrow]

Rats--Sounds like someone bet that they wouldn't need that locomotive and coach car and used it for another train. So does that mean now that Amtrak no longer has an extra set, since missing those cars is like not having another one anyway?

The extra equipment is in regular rotation. Normally, there should be no need to use the inbound #7/27 equipment as long as we have the extra train set.

Today however, I don't know why, I'm on vacation, but the extra equipment in Seattle was short a locomotive and a coach.

hey, they had almost a complete trainset. well, except for the engine and coach. <_<

 

[Nathanael]

Yet many people routinely do just that, sometimes going to and from a destination on the same day. They expect planes to arrive within no more than 15 minutes of published or advertised arrival times. If a flight is delayed, there's usually another (at least between major cities) leaving within the hour, if not the half hour.

Maybe between *major* *domestic* cities.

Perhaps we've been spoiled by air travel, but it tends to be fairly reliable, as others on here have attested in this thread.

I can give you a long, long history of massive airplane delays. My home is a small city, and a lot of my trips were abroad.

Flights to and from small cities have frequent, and substantial, delays in departure, in both directions, due to, as far as I can tell, total lack of care by by the airlines. The next flight is often many hours off.

Flights abroad also have frequent, and substantial, delays in departure, in this case usually due to airport crowding. The next flight is often fully booked.

And then there was America West, whose entire computer system melted down one. In that case we were all travelling major domestic city to major domestic city. One of us arrived over 12 hours late, having taken more time in transit from Denver to LA than a direct flight from the UK to LA (as we discovered from another person at the conference).

Perhaps *you've* been spoiled by air travel, but I'd love to know what routes you were travelling and by what carriers, because I think this is specific to certain city pairs and airlines. If you were taking the NEC reguarly, Amtrak would probably make you spoiled for reliability!

 

[Nathanael]

One dining car can seat 72, but that is really hard on the crew as there is limited room to prep all the things. So I'll take away 1 table of 4, which brings us to 68. On the Auto Train, where they max out the diners, they can do 3 seatings with a full crew. That's 204 passengers that can be served.

Auto Train has two full diners and a table car, as I learned from this fine website (http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/32610-line-numbersconsist-listings/). I'm not quite sure how they use them, never having been on it, but it sure looks like they have a "diner for sleeper passengers" and a "diner for coach passengers".

However, the best solution remains the original plan for the Stimulus cars that got bumped by the Daily Eagle plan that never happened.
That original plan as noted already, was to add a CCC to the consist and send that to Portland instead of the Sightseer Lounge.

That would definitely relieve the pressure for now and allow addition of more sleepers/coaches. The trouble is, didn't two CCC's just get wrecked recently?

Now if ridership grows *enough*, it would make sense to make the Empire Builder into two separate trains, one for Portland and one for Seattle. One of them could take the southern route through Montana, which would be popular with that state, since it's been advocating for a new North Coast Hiawatha...

Still needs more cars though. Every possible solution needs more cars. Diners, table cars, cafes, lounge carse, sleepers, coaches, whatever, more cars are needed, period. The only way to need fewer cars is to somehow run the trains faster, which gets us back to the title of this thread!

 

[Nathanael]

My guess is the extra equipment is just not available, which is too bad, since the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

That guess is totally correct, and a a repeated story all over Amtrak.

Hopefully Amtrak can find a way to obtain some more rolling stock and expand capacity. Going to be tough to do in today's political environment. I wonder what the two MT senators voting record is on Amtrak related bills?

I believe both of the Democratic Senators from Montana have been Amtrak supporters. I believe that the Republican Representative from Montana has been hostile to Amtrak, though I haven't checked recently.

Of course, given the situation, with Montana being a low-population state which has relatively little influence in Congress. Montana would be better off funding extra cars or extra service at the state level, as Illinois, California, and various other states are doing. I haven't looked into the *state* government's words, but it certainly hasn't put in a dime.

 

[PRR 60]

I believe both of the Democratic Senators from Montana have been Amtrak supporters. I believe that the Republican Representative from Montana has been hostile to Amtrak, though I haven't checked recently.

...

Are you basing your "belief" on facts, or just based on what you assume to be the political leaning of the senators and the representative?

 

[AlanB]

One dining car can seat 72, but that is really hard on the crew as there is limited room to prep all the things. So I'll take away 1 table of 4, which brings us to 68. On the Auto Train, where they max out the diners, they can do 3 seatings with a full crew. That's 204 passengers that can be served.

Auto Train has two full diners and a table car, as I learned from this fine website (http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/32610-line-numbersconsist-listings/). I'm not quite sure how they use them, never having been on it, but it sure looks like they have a "diner for sleeper passengers" and a "diner for coach passengers".

That is correct, they use one diner for coach pax and one for sleeper pax. However, my count is not based upon the train's total capacity, but rather the capacity of just 1 dining car. The AT using both diners can feed 408 passengers just using the two dining car, more with the overflow seating in the lounge cars and far more when the add a third diner for coach.

However, the best solution remains the original plan for the Stimulus cars that got bumped by the Daily Eagle plan that never happened.
That original plan as noted already, was to add a CCC to the consist and send that to Portland instead of the Sightseer Lounge.

That would definitely relieve the pressure for now and allow addition of more sleepers/coaches. The trouble is, didn't two CCC's just get wrecked recently?

Now if ridership grows *enough*, it would make sense to make the Empire Builder into two separate trains, one for Portland and one for Seattle. One of them could take the southern route through Montana, which would be popular with that state, since it's been advocating for a new North Coast Hiawatha...

Still needs more cars though. Every possible solution needs more cars. Diners, table cars, cafes, lounge carse, sleepers, coaches, whatever, more cars are needed, period. The only way to need fewer cars is to somehow run the trains faster, which gets us back to the title of this thread!

Not sure about the wreck question, but Amtrak has more CCC's than they know what to do with. One reason that they started parking an extra couple in LA to pinch hit for the Pacific Parlour cars. The EB plan wasn't waiting for CCC's, it was waiting for sleepers and coaches. Then it all went south with the daily Eagle plan that never happened.

 

[montana mike]

My guess is the extra equipment is just not available, which is too bad, since the conductors on my last EB trip said they could have easily sold out another couple sleepers and coaches on that trip (there was hardly an empty seat the entire trip and you could hardly find a seat in the lounge car, even at midnight!).

That guess is totally correct, and a a repeated story all over Amtrak.

Hopefully Amtrak can find a way to obtain some more rolling stock and expand capacity. Going to be tough to do in today's political environment. I wonder what the two MT senators voting record is on Amtrak related bills?

I believe both of the Democratic Senators from Montana have been Amtrak supporters. I believe that the Republican Representative from Montana has been hostile to Amtrak, though I haven't checked recently.

Of course, given the situation, with Montana being a low-population state which has relatively little influence in Congress. Montana would be better off funding extra cars or extra service at the state level, as Illinois, California, and various other states are doing. I haven't looked into the *state* government's words, but it certainly hasn't put in a dime.

Supporters in words only-which frustrates the heck out of the locals. They only time they bring up the issue of the EB is during election time, then you never hear a peep from them. I have written to both and other than the canned letter thanking me for my interest they have never put their money where their mouth is. I believe the rep has been largely silent on the issue.

Our state has a decent surplus, so they could fund some options, but I have never seen any local legislators even bring something like that up.