EB mess

[neroden]

Whoa! Private cars at St. Paul Union? That's cool, but surprising to me, given that I'd heard in the past that private cars would be handled at Midway.

Per Amtrak's announcement, you're not quite the last scheduled passenger stop: 8(5) is going to be the last train to stop for passengers at Midway, in the morning.

 

[gn2276]

Two more cars are comming in from CHI they are the Amtrak Bussiness Cars Pacific Cape and Beech Grove with Boardman and party on board.

 

[CHamilton]

Yes, I should have said business cars rather than private cars. gn2276 is correct.

 

[CHamilton]

We finally got to SPUD after much stopping and starting. I never saw a freight, so I suspect that they haven't gotten the switching down yet. Now in the process of disconnecting the business cars, then we'll be off to Midway, probably around an hour late.

But I guess I can say that I was on the first passenger train to stop here for what? 40 years? even if we couldn't get off.

 

[CHamilton]

And we pulled into Midway Station at midnight, which seems appropriate. I won't miss its architecture or middle of nowhere location, but Midway kept Amtrak service going in the Twin Cities for a lot of years.

 

[NW cannonball]

Monday, saw a very clean westbound BNSF loco pulling a half-dozen plus BNSF biz cars (mostly named xx-PASS) rolling thru Park Junction here in MSP.

Wannna bet that consist got to SEA on time? Yeah, thought so.

 

[PRR 60]

The full BNSF Press Release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

May 6, 2014

BNSF Contact

Amy McBeth

AMTRAK EMPIRE BUILDER DETOURS IN NORTH DAKOTA TO SPEED BNSF RAILWAY TRACK & SIGNAL IMPROVEMENTS

Chartered buses to represent westbound train in three cities; Amtrak CEO Boardman to visit affected region later this week

CHICAGO - Amtrak has agreed to a request by BNSF Railway to temporarily detour the westbound Empire Builder (Train 7/27) in North Dakota to speed the improvement of BNSF infrastructure between Fargo and Minot, N.D. Chartered buses will cover the missed Amtrak stations in Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby through Sept. 30, 2014.

The use of an alternate route for the westbound Empire Builder will enable BNSF to accomplish work in shorter time. The eastbound Empire Builder (Train 8/28) will operate normally and serve all scheduled stops. A Passenger Service Notice is attached.

Amtrak has been notifying affected passengers and public officials. In addition, Amtrak President and CEO Joe Boardman is visiting the affected region later this week and the lengthy delays the Empire Builder has incurred will be a major topic in meetings with leaders in each of these North Dakota communities.

"Local community and business leaders prize the Empire Builder and see Amtrak service as an important public transportation link," said DJ Stadtler, Amtrak Vice President, Operations. "BNSF needs to speed repairs and upgrades in order to return the Empire Builder to its previous reliability as fast as possible. We fully expect this work to be done by the end of September -- at the latest."

BNSF has announced it is investing approximately $400 million in North Dakota to expand, replace and maintain its infrastructure, and for the implementation of Positive Train Control (PTC).

This includes three siding projects between Grand Forks and Minot and four siding projects between Fargo and Grand Forks. Other work along the route involves installation of new turnouts, high speed surfacing/shoulder ballast cleaning, replacement of ties, rail relay and signal upgrades.

"We are committed to investing in our infrastructure to support the region's growing economy and to better serve all of our freight customers and Amtrak's passenger service," said DJ Mitchell, AVP Passenger Operations, BNSF Railway. "This plan will allow the work to occur more efficiently and will benefit everyone."

About BNSF Railway

BNSF Railway is one of North America's leading freight transportation companies operating on 32,500 route miles of track in 28 states and two Canadian provinces. BNSF is one of the top transporters of consumer goods, grain and agricultural products, low-sulfur coal, and industrial goods such as petroleum, chemicals, housing materials, food and beverages. BNSF's shipments help feed, clothe, supply, and power American homes and businesses every day. BNSF and its employees have developed one of the most technologically advanced, and efficient railroads in the industry. We work continuously to improve the value of the safety, service, energy, and environmental benefits we provide to our customers and the communities we serve. You can learn more about BNSF at www.BNSF.com.

 

[Ryan]

The BH folks got greedy, and it's biting them in the ***.

Nah, they guessed wrong and it's biting in the ***.
If the demand for oil transport was so obvious years ago, why aren't there pipelines being constructed now? Several proposed pipelines didn't leave the blueprints because the proposers couldn't get guaranteed shipments, and therefore couldn't get funding. It's clear that the case for long-term demand for oil shipments from North Dakota is a hard one to make, at least with the people who matter. (That is, the ones with money.)

Your continued defense of BH baffles me. From way back on page 5:

He also stated, for the record, that senior management was well aware of the increased traffic forecasts well over two years ago and chose to "bank current profits" then and not invest in the infrastructure that was needed to support the forecasts at the time. He said this decision was made not by BNSF, but by their Berkshire Hathaway owners. Mr Buffett is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

This wasn't a surprise nobody saw coming. The forecasts were there, the BNSF folks saw the need, asked for money and their corporate masters said "no". Now we all have to live with the consequences.

 

[montana mike]

It has been a matter of both great pride and frustration on the part of the long time BNSF people that no one at BH appeared to listen to their entreaties about what was happening to their system. I guess when you are part of a much larger corporate entity, whose main reason for existence is profits for the owner(s) and not planning for the future to serve the customers this sort of thing will happen. It is interesting to note that a number of BH "suits" who were initially put in charge over BNSF segments have been removed in favor of "rail" people over the past year. A tacit recognition that perhaps BH made a big mistake in trying to run a railroad without the requisite experience and understanding of what was needed.

Oh, well. The long delays go on--both ways--and will do so for the foreseeable future. I have been told that once all of the work has been completed (18-24 months) that the hi-Line will function much more reliably as it once did for many years........

 

[CHamilton]

The full BNSF Press Release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

May 6, 2014

BNSF Contact

Amy McBeth

AMTRAK EMPIRE BUILDER DETOURS IN NORTH DAKOTA TO SPEED BNSF RAILWAY TRACK & SIGNAL IMPROVEMENTS

Chartered buses to represent westbound train in three cities; Amtrak CEO Boardman to visit affected region later this week

CHICAGO - Amtrak has agreed to a request by BNSF Railway to temporarily detour the westbound Empire Builder (Train 7/27) in North Dakota to speed the improvement of BNSF infrastructure between Fargo and Minot, N.D. Chartered buses will cover the missed Amtrak stations in Grand Forks, Devils Lake and Rugby through Sept. 30, 2014. .

I am on 7 west of Fargo now, going slowly past lots of freight. Google maps says we're North of Valley City. So is this the regular route or the detour? No announcement has been made on the train yet.

 

[Ryan]

Detour. The regular route follows I-29 out of Fargo up to Grand Forks.

 

[TraneMan]

I am on 7 west of Fargo now, going slowly past lots of freight. Google maps says we're North of Valley City. So is this the regular route or the detour? No announcement has been made on the train yet.

you are on the Detour KO Sub.

 

[CHamilton]

Yes, we are now equidistant between Devils Lake and Jamestown. I think this is new mileage for me, although it's hardly rare these days. And it has better cell service than the regular route does!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Charlie, you've been on so many trains the past 2 weeks, it's not surprising you're lost.

 

[CHamilton]

I'm not lost, but the EB might be

And a question for John B. from my friend in St Paul :

'Interesting: amtrak.com shows the arrival/departure times from Midway last night -- arrived 11:58, departed 12:20 (we heard the whistle at departure from Midway). statusmaps.net apparently shows the arrival/departure times from SPUD -- arrived 11:11, departed 11:36. Must be doing some stuff behind the scenes with station codes.'

 

[CHamilton]

Oh, joy. The crew of 7(6) just announced that we 'may' make Minot before they run out of hours. That may happen as long as we don't get delayed by freight traffic. If we make it, we'll be 2 hours late. If we don't, we'll lose another half hour.

 

[CHamilton]

'The BNSF dispatchers have managed to part the sea for us... Arriving Minot, 10 minutes.'

 

[CHamilton]

And after Minot, now we are being told to expect more delays due to freight.

 

[Ispolkom]

Your continued defense of BH baffles me. From way back on page 5:

He also stated, for the record, that senior management was well aware of the increased traffic forecasts well over two years ago and chose to "bank current profits" then and not invest in the infrastructure that was needed to support the forecasts at the time. He said this decision was made not by BNSF, but by their Berkshire Hathaway owners. Mr Buffett is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

This wasn't a surprise nobody saw coming. The forecasts were there, the BNSF folks saw the need, asked for money and their corporate masters said "no". Now we all have to live with the consequences.

I'm not defending BNSF. I'm saying that they are acting the way the railroad always has. They act with impunity, concerned solely with making money regardless of its effects on customers, as long as those customers have no recourse.

My problems with the montana mike quote are two-fold. 1) what does "stated for the record" mean for a quote of an anonymous person by another anonymous person on a railfan Web site? I'm a pedant, so I often supply links to back up my statement. 2) the statement isn't exactly correct. BNSF has invested in its infrastructure. It's just that most of that investment was on the southern transcon.

BNSF has a limited amount of money to invest in capital improvements. Its operating divisions have nearly limitless demands, which, I am sure, are all backed up with traffic forecasts. Management has to choose, and I still don't see that they haven't made the right choice.

1) BNSF makes money on all this new oil traffic. Sure it moves slowly, but what choice do the oil shippers have? CP wouldn't be any faster, I'll bet

2) BNSF continues to make money from bulk shippers, who have no other choice. What can a grain elevator operator in Stanley do? Ship grain by truck at today's diesel fuel prices?

3) I'm sure that there's some diversion of container traffic from the Hi Line, but wouldn't much of that be diverted to the southern transcon? BNSF makes money either way.

I still think that oil traffic is a temporary phenomenon on the Hi-Line. Either the Baaken field will go bust (not the first time that's happened in North Dakota), or pipelines will get built to transport the oil. In either case rail transport won't last and BNSF is smart to maximize their revenues while not overbuilding the infrastructure for the long term. Remember that quote, that shipping oil by train is like a one-night stand. Can you blame BNSF for not buying an expensive wedding dress if she might be jilted at the altar?

BNSF and its predecessors never offered better service than they had to. Why should they start now?

If I were a shareholder of Berkshire Hathaway, I'd approve of how they acted. Instead, I'm a unhappy frequent passenger on the Empire Builder. Just because my interests are being harmed, though, doesn't mean I can't see why BNSF acts the way it does.

 

[jebr]

At Union Depot, a celebration of a failed transportation option

Today is a big day at Union Depot where Amtrak will make its first passenger stop since the time when it was actually a dependable mode of transportation.

For the sake of the TV crews covering the event, Amtrak brought in a train to show what a passenger train looks like.
Theoretically, the party could’ve just waited for the eastbound Empire Builder, the only passenger train that zips through Saint Paul twice a day, but it’s missing in action. Again.
[...]
Make no mistake. Union Depot is a magnificent edifice and the renovation opens up tremendous possibilities – commuter rail from the southeastern suburbs, and an interconnection with local bus routes and light rail. But today’s Amtrak celebration is more about nostalgia than possibilities. The local politicians said all the right things today, but none of them is ever going to actually take the Empire Builder, unless they’re going someplace they really don’t need to be.
[...]
If you wanted to take a train from Boston to New York this afternoon, you have nine different trains you can take and you can be there faster than the time it takes the Empire Builder to travel to Saint Paul from St. Cloud. Three days a week, the passenger load on the Acela northeast corridor train is 100%.
Here? The Empire Builder traffic is down 15 percent from a year ago.

 

[Ryan]

I'm not defending BNSF. I'm saying that they are acting the way the railroad always has. They act with impunity, concerned solely with making money regardless of its effects on customers, as long as those customers have no recourse.

You're still missing my point. I'm not saying that you're defending BNSF. You're defending Berkshire Hathaway. That's an exceedingly important distinction.

BNSF is *NOT* acting "the way the railroad always has". The BNSF people saw this coming and wanted to do something about it. The non-railroad people ignored the experts and said "no".

If I were a Berkshire Hathaway shareholder, I'd be pissed. I'd want them to listen to the experts that work for them and take their advice, which is what it finally sounds like is happening. If they had listened years ago, this would be a lot less messy. There would be a lot more freight moving, and they'd be making lots more money.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'd agree that it really is about the money as it always is but since Railroads are such a special kind of business, the BH Finance Sharks should have listened to the RR Suits and things wouldn't be in such a mess !

Warren Buffet didn't become so wealthy by putting up with incompetent execs so I'm sure he's kicked *** and taken names and as Ryan said it will be made right but it will take time and well all suffer until then!

 

[Ispolkom]

BNSF is *NOT* acting "the way the railroad always has". The BNSF people saw this coming and wanted to do something about it. The non-railroad people ignored the experts and said "no".
If I were a Berkshire Hathaway shareholder, I'd be pissed. I'd want them to listen to the experts that work for them and take their advice, which is what it finally sounds like is happening. If they had listened years ago, this would be a lot less messy. There would be a lot more freight moving, and they'd be making lots more money.

Objectively, they are acting the way they always have. Great Northern and Burlington Northern after them always provided the minimum of service at the maximum of cost to the shipper. Look at the network itself. The branch lines running north to the Canadian border, the so-called Picket Fence, were only built after the Soo Line built its Wheat Route parallel to the Hi Line. The Surrey cut-off was only built after the Soo Line built a similar line. As long as there was no competition, there was no investment.

Every time there is a big harvest the railroad is tardy with the delivery of grain cars, because shippers have no choice. I can find you decades of pictures of grain piled next to overfilled elevators, long before there were oil shipments. Why should it be any different with shipments of a different product?

Given the way the railroads treated the state as a colony, it's not accidental that North Dakota's PUC was traditionally very antirail, and that the Nonpartisan League called for a state takeover of the Great Northern.

How can you say that BNSF should have diverted investment from the southern transcon to the Hi Line? How much greater would be the ROI?

How do you know that the present surge in oil shipments isn't temporary? Why won't pipelines be built, if there are significant long-term prospects for oil shipments? Is it in BNSF's interest to overbuild the Hi Line infrastructure if the oil shipments by rail are going to decline? What will be the ROI then?

It's not clear to me if this is a Havre vs. Fort Worth thing, or a Fort Worth vs. Omaha thing. One thing I'll bet, though, is that it's a matter of balance sheets that we don't have access to.

 

[Ryan]

How can you say that BNSF should have diverted investment from the southern transcon to the Hi Line? How much greater would be the ROI?

Where did I say such a thing?

How do you know that the present surge in oil shipments isn't temporary?

Personally, I don't. But the trained professionals whose job this is believed that it wasn't temporary and that money needed to be invested more than 2 years ago. That's good enough for me. Now they are in objectively worse shape. They still have to invest the money, they're probably paying a premium for the rush nature of the jobs, and they're missing out on revenue while doing it. If the suits at BH had listened to the railroad people years ago, things would undoubtedly be better. But these are the things that happen when you prioritize short term profits over everything else.

 

[CHamilton]

Re Jeb's link several posts back:

Of course, the things that Mr. Collins says are true. But what does he propose to do about it? <crickets> Have everyone stay in their cars and their airplanes until every ounce of fossil fuel is gone, then freeze for lack of propane like the poor woman in today's Minot Daily News?

I'm tired of seeing these sorts of comments from smug do-nothings. Close this site down and call your elected representatives. Tell them that we need rail options that work!