Last Christmas, Amazon missed a bunch of delivery deadlines (including mine) because UPS freight was stuck on BNSF Hi-Line trains. The current situation is not quite the same thing, but is certainly related.
EB mess
- Thread starter greatcats
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A friend on Facebook posts:
neroden
Engineer
OK, THEY need to be reported. I'm fairly sure they'd be fired almost immediately if this story is true.
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I thought so too, although the use of the passive voice suggests that the poster wasn't speaking from their own experience...I hesitated to repost what amounts to a rumor, but thought it was important enough to pass on.
H
Henry Kisor
Guest
I don't believe that story at all. First, it's a classic third-party friend-of-a-friend story, the No. 1 indicator that a story is untrue. Second, do you really believe even the laziest Amtrak ticket agent would say "we don't want to deal with those people" knowing that the remark would become public?
More to the point why can you not book a ticket on-line?
That a true screw up.
I sure the employees were doing something important like a meal break, not just hiding from the customer. That would never happens.
That a true screw up.
I sure the employees were doing something important like a meal break, not just hiding from the customer. That would never happens.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
It could happen. But I think they'd give a better excuse than that!
neroden
Engineer
I've seen behavior worse than that at other organizations.
I would still be surprised to see behavior that bad at St. Paul Amtrak unless there's been a major change in staff, since the St. Paul staff were always very helpful when I was there.
I would still be surprised to see behavior that bad at St. Paul Amtrak unless there's been a major change in staff, since the St. Paul staff were always very helpful when I was there.
montana mike
Conductor
Quick BNSF Update: As folks may have noticed, even the truncated versions of the EB's have been losing 6-10+ hours on their treks over the past few days, with one of the EB's experiencing a 13 hour delay-ouch. My BNSF contacts say this may still happen occasionally, even after the full EB service is restored. BNSF has a virtual logjam of freight business ongoing and until new track construction is complete, things might even get a little worse before they get better. One tiny ray of hope, they did say the track construction was slightly ahead of schedule. BTW-The 115 mile double tracking plan for the Hi-Line finishes up in late 2016. Only a small part of this plan will be completed (less than 25%) in 2014. 2015 will be a bigger construction effort on the part of BNSF.
Both my local contacts said they have never seen things so "screwed up" on this route. Yes, the Empire Builders have been ridiculously late, but some freight traffic has been days and weeks behind and off the record has cost them some business as some customers have gotten creative in finding other ways to move their goods. The Intermodal ops are the ones that have lost the most new biz, since that is the easiest to move. Coal, agro and energy are less flexible.
Both my local contacts said they have never seen things so "screwed up" on this route. Yes, the Empire Builders have been ridiculously late, but some freight traffic has been days and weeks behind and off the record has cost them some business as some customers have gotten creative in finding other ways to move their goods. The Intermodal ops are the ones that have lost the most new biz, since that is the easiest to move. Coal, agro and energy are less flexible.
neroden
Engineer
Well, that's good!
So BNSF should hire some more temporary gandydancers! There are lots of people out of work in this country! I understand if engineering and environmental review and buying land and ordering switchpoints manufactured and materials delivered and so forth is slowing things down, but the actual track installation isn't highly skilled labor, and it should be possible to do it pretty much all at once.
montana mike
Conductor
It may be more about available time to do the construction. The "season" as we all know, is quite short in the northern tier of the US.
George Harris
Engineer
To the contrary. Track installation is highly specialized both in skills and machinery. You are not going to find worthwhile track labor by wandering down to the unemployment office and grabbing the first few strong looking men you see. If you get the opportunity get out and watch such stuff as a T&S (tie and surfacing) operation or a rail replacement gang at work and you will see what I mean. The other problem involved is stopping for every train passage. That can eat up a lot of the work day on an hgih volumen railroad. Even if you do not have to clear the track since this will be on a new roadbed, it will still be adjacent to a live track, so for safety reasons work is paused while the trains go by. Also, the traisn will be passing with a slow order, to what speed I do not know for this situation.
For the most part the work should be within existing right of way. Getting material delivered and on site may be somewhat of a critical path issue, but this could have started as soon as the decision was made to do the work and go in parallel with gettin permits as needed and doing the grading and drainage work.
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I would hope BNSF is building new track on 25 foot clearance. Like the UP has done.
My understand at 25 feet MOW equipment does not impact the track next to it. Sure a slow order and ring bell is a great idea, but the MOW equipment can keep work as the train past.
25 feet between the center of both tracks.
My understand at 25 feet MOW equipment does not impact the track next to it. Sure a slow order and ring bell is a great idea, but the MOW equipment can keep work as the train past.
25 feet between the center of both tracks.
In addition to what George said, there's almost certainly union restrictions on being able to hire temporary workers.
montana mike
Conductor
Looking at all of the equipment that is indeed used to lay the track I would have to agree this isn't just finding some strong backs able to wield a hammer.
BNSF's latest ad.
montana mike
Conductor
))I do believe the loss of revenue is having an impact. While BNSF could care less about Amtrak, potentially losing millions each month in Intermodal traffic alone has gotten the attention of the executive suite. I understand several of the TL carriers, a major container shipper from China, and one of the expedite firms (supposedly UPS) read the riot act to BNSF people over the past couple weeks. Telling them to get their act together or they are moving their biz to another carrier.
They have dug themselves such a deep hole over the past three plus years this isn't something that is "cured" in a matter of weeks or months though.
George Harris
Engineer
Whether or not this is done depends upon quite a few factors, such as increased cost of earthwork, right of way, etc. The grading and drainage, which the most of the work anyway, has to go right up to the exiting track. The 25 feet is more of an advantage in future maintenance work. If you look at pictures of where the UP has done this 25 feet offset, you will see that it is in the middle of nowhere. If there are constraints on land, the track centers will come down.
The Davy Crockett
Engineer
Maybe 'stronger than ever' as BNSF, but certainly not when the High Line was run by James Hill!
Ispolkom
Engineer
And where would you find temporary workers in the oil patch? Even if you did, where would you house them?
You could always house them in trailers like FEMA does after Hurricanes and other Natural Disasters! I'm sure BNSF could cut a deal with a Mobile Housing Manufacturer!
Other method would be having the gangs live in converted railcars like Railroads used to do when they eliminated section housing for crews!
Maybe they could use their Business Cars as housing and offer Bonuses and wages competitive with the Oil Bid since its all a tax write off anyway!
Other method would be having the gangs live in converted railcars like Railroads used to do when they eliminated section housing for crews!
Maybe they could use their Business Cars as housing and offer Bonuses and wages competitive with the Oil Bid since its all a tax write off anyway!
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NW cannonball
Conductor
Yeah, the "man camps" have been visible from the Empire Builder for at least the last two years. What we used to call "trailer courts" but with "hot bunking" -- sheesh - the Bakken is a "boom town" - these $30/hr (absolute minimum wage) - dishwashers get $40, laborers get much more) but pay $3500/month absolute minimum for a time-share on a narrow bunk in a single-wide. You want a room of your own, you commute from SPK or MSP, or pay twice San Jose prices for any lodgings.
It's hard to convince outsiders just what a boom-town the Williston area is. It is insane. Might be a bit like the 49'ers. It is totally insane.
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