Elderly lady kicked off Eagle.

[Mike G]

This Emotional Support Animal Business I have often had questions in my mind about. Some of it got cleared up at my Vets office while waiting recently. This derelict looking individual came in with his dog and announced so all could hear he had papers from the shelter that he need to Vet to sign off on for his rescued dog to be declared Emotional Support Animal. The receptionist ask where he got the vest with Emotional Support Animal the dog was displaying, he proudly informed all to hear Amazon HAHa then she told him the Vet no long sign the documents required because he wasn’t being presented certificate of professional training along with medical history and he didn’t care to get involved in liability suits. Of course he got loud and dropped the F bomb in front of ladies and children as he left. I live in Southaven, MS about 6 exits South of Memphis.

 

[Old MM]

There were a bunch of zeros in front of the decimal, and I paraphrased to "any and all"
Basically, I'm not really here to argue, so if you need to chalk up a W, have at it.

hat doesn't look like an argument "to allow any and all animals onboard" either.

 

[PVD]

Drove home and just noticed I used there when I should have used "their" but the clock ran out on time to edit...
mea culpa......

 

[Ryan]

Drove home and just noticed I used there when I should have used "their" but the clock ran out on time to edit...
mea culpa......

 

[Ryan]

There were a bunch of zeros in front of the decimal, and I paraphrased to "any and all"
Basically, I'm not really here to argue, so if you need to chalk up a W, have at it.

All I did was ask a simple question, you’re the one who chose to throw insults instead of provide a straight answer. I took Andy’s post to simply mean that he valued someone’s life over the inconveniences of dealing with a pet allergy. Given that you haven’t provided any examples of people dying from being exposed to a pet they’re allergic to, it seems like a reasonable position to take.

Maybe next time just answer the question and remain civil?

 

[cocojacoby]

The 2010 revised ADA regulations include a separate provision addressing miniature horses . . .

Miniature horses are permitted to accompany a person with a disability to any place that members of the public are allowed to go such as restaurants, theaters, retail shops, grocery stores, etc. Both service dogs and miniature horses must be individually trained, housebroken, and under the handler’s control at all times when out in public.

(Just wondering how many horses have ridden Amtrak)

 

[Old MM]

All I did was ask a simple question, you’re the one who chose to throw insults instead of provide a straight answer. I took Andy’s post to simply mean that he valued someone’s life over the inconveniences of dealing with a pet allergy. Given that you haven’t provided any examples of people dying from being exposed to a pet they’re allergic to, it seems like a reasonable position to take.

Maybe next time just answer the question and remain civil?

Are you under the impression that your response to me is "civil"?
Also I don't understand why I have to provide an example of someone dying from being exposed to a pet allergy as I never made this claim to begin with. Maybe you could provide an example of someone's life being saved because they brought a fake ESA on a train or a plane. Clearly this issue is very important to you and perhaps I might learn something from such an example.

 

[SarahZ]

“I’m not really here to argue”

[continues arguing]

 

[Seaboard92]

We just need to make actual regulations and an official training program for the ESA’s I’m not sure if that is the ADA’s department or somebody else. Right now people are using it as a way to travel with their pets, or to bring their pet to college which is an issue.

Fix the law and no one would have to argue at all. Me personally I’m against a lot of the ESA people but that’s because I’m on the front lines of having to deal with it.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Are you under the impression that your response to me is "civil"?
Also I don't understand why I have to provide an example of someone dying from being exposed to a pet allergy as I never made this claim to begin with. Maybe you could provide an example of someone's life being saved because they brought a fake ESA on a train or a plane. Clearly this issue is very important to you and perhaps I might learn something from such an example.

1. I never once said a fake animal saved anyone's life.
2. I never claimed you did say one had died from a pet allergy - I merely tried pointing out to another poster (not yourself) that genuine emotional support animals DO save lives and I'd rather travel alongside numerous fake support animals then see someone take their own life because they didn't get the support they needed.
3. Actually I could find a single example in the UK of some who died from a pet allergy in 2017 due to a fatal combination of factors including a family pet licking her face. It is that uncommon here in the UK the death made national news.
4. It was you that stated I hadn't looked very hard for data on how many deaths occurred in the USA due to pet allegies but then was unable yourself to provide any data to back up your claim I hadn't tried very hard.

I'm walking away from this thread now as we are well off topic and it is sadly degenerating into a he said she said which I'm sure no one come to this forum to read and frankly life is to short.

 

[pennyk]

MODERATOR NOTE: Please keep this discussion on topic (service/support animals on Amtrak trains; removal of passengers who violate the rules regarding such animals).

Thank you!

 

[Old MM]

Here's an excellent and recent article, reviewing the issues covered here:

https://www.parksleepfly.com/blog/airlines-cracking-down-on-service-animals-in-2019/

Note, the article is airline specific, however the concepts are applicable. For example, untrained ESAs have been known to attack service animals, and this point in particular has not been covered in this thread.

Going back to the original point, Amtrak was absolutely correct to remove the passenger with the dogs that were neither valid service animals, nor true or fake ESAs.

 

[Rasputin]

About 4 years ago I encountered a service dog/support dog of some type on the CZ. The owner told me what the dog was trained to do but I can't recall what it was. The dog was okay but neither the dog nor the owner had bathed in the previous year or two. I guess they were water averse.

 

[tonys96]

TRAINED/LEGIT CERTIFIED service animals are a godsend for some people.

Fake "support" animals, well no not the animal itself, but instead, the owners of them, are perpetrating a fraud against the public. And more importantly, against those with REAL Service animals.

Shame on them.

 

[Barb Stout]

I have a friend who is blind (low-vision technically-she sees light and dark, but everything is extremely blurry) who used to have a seeing eye dog who died. We were discussing some of the unexpected problems of fake service or emotional support animals. For instance, due to the frequent fraud and problems with these fakers, certain airlines decided to require that people traveling with guide or es animals fill out online forms documenting everything. While she can use computers due to voice-over features on computers, she is still very slow at it compared to sighted people. So more obstacles for her and others like her. She currently gets around with a white stick, but is thinking about getting another guide dog, but they are very expensive, so she has to become more financially stable before she can get another.

 

[Railroad Bill]

As a long time member of our local Lions Club, whose major goal is to assist those with sight and hearing difficulties and a board member for our local Developmental Disabilities housing group, I have significant experience in dealing with those with issues dealing with disability and that of travel and transportation. I believe there have been significant issues presented in this thread that affect travel on Amtrak.
We all have been aware of those who, on appearance, seem to play games with the rules when it comes to assistance animals. As has also been presented here, not all disabilities are openly apparent.
As a moderator, I again want to ask that all who post here keep their comments on track with the issues, avoid personal attacks and childish rhetoric. We now have four pages of comments and posts, and of course, we will not solve this issue by continuing to rehash the same arguments over and over. I ask that we add to the discussion of service animals and Amtrak and move forward.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

As a long time member of our local Lions Club, whose major goal is to assist those with sight and hearing difficulties and a board member for our local Developmental Disabilities housing group, I have significant experience in dealing with those with issues dealing with disability and that of travel and transportation. I believe there have been significant issues presented in this thread that affect travel on Amtrak.
We all have been aware of those who, on appearance, seem to play games with the rules when it comes to assistance animals. As has also been presented here, not all disabilities are openly apparent.
As a moderator, I again want to ask that all who post here keep their comments on track with the issues, avoid personal attacks and childish rhetoric. We now have four pages of comments and posts, and of course, we will not solve this issue by continuing to rehash the same arguments over and over. I ask that we add to the discussion of service animals and Amtrak and move forward.

Well said!

 

[basketmaker]

Riding the CZ a couple years ago I ran into a homeless (just out of jail) gentleman in the lounge car with his pitbull. Needless to say that raised a few eyebrows as people passed through. The guy had some legal (I think issued by a court) that stated he was required to have the dog with him for support (don't remember if it stated service or emotional).

The dog wasn't wearing any vest or identification stating it as a service animal. And he was never leashed onboard and only at stops where he was walked on leash to a grassy area. Not being prejudiced against pitbulls (like so many are) I sat in the double-swivel seat next to them and chatted with him while the dog laid on a towel on the floor at his feet. The dog was super mellow. We chatted for a while and next thing I know is the dog got up and meandered over to me and jumped up in the seat with me and went right to sleep.

It was an interesting experience for sure!

 

[PVD]

There is no legal certification as a service animal. It needs to be trained to perform a task that assists a person with an ADA recognized disability, while many are, it does not have to be by a specific type of organization. That being said, some of the functions are very difficult to train for, and not every disability is apparent. Today I saw a news story about a dog that was trained to detect hormone changes that indicate an oncoming migraine in time to take medication. They also featured a dog that helped someone by anticipating the onset of PTSD flashbacks. that dog was a Great Pyrenees, a breed you would not normally associate with service animals.

 

[Old MM]

As a long time member of our local Lions Club, whose major goal is to assist those with sight and hearing difficulties and a board member for our local Developmental Disabilities housing group, I have significant experience in dealing with those with issues dealing with disability and that of travel and transportation. I believe there have been significant issues presented in this thread that affect travel on Amtrak.
We all have been aware of those who, on appearance, seem to play games with the rules when it comes to assistance animals. As has also been presented here, not all disabilities are openly apparent.
As a moderator, I again want to ask that all who post here keep their comments on track with the issues, avoid personal attacks and childish rhetoric. We now have four pages of comments and posts, and of course, we will not solve this issue by continuing to rehash the same arguments over and over. I ask that we add to the discussion of service animals and Amtrak and move forward.

Thank you Bill. I also work for an organization within the eye care sextor. Much respect for what the Lions are doing in local communities and worldwide. People who try to game the system, as you indicated, may end up causing a lot of grief for someone who needs their service animal and that is why I take a fairly hard line on the ESA issue. Also spent many years on the front lines as an airline employee and that informs my perspective as well.

 

[riderails]

I have not seen reference to following AP article on this thread's topic:
"In 'lawless' world of service dogs many families suffer" [search for this string reveals the article]

 

[ScouseAndy]

All said and done is it really reasonable behaviour by amtrak to throw her off in the middle of no where? She could have been totally stranded.

Surely it would have made more sense to confine the animals to the baggage car or her room until her station, ban her for life from using amtrak again and bill her for cleaning fees.
2 wrongs don't make a right after all.

 

[Bob Dylan]

All said and done is it really reasonable behaviour by amtrak to throw her off in the middle of no where? She could have been totally stranded.

Surely it would have made more sense to confine the animals to the baggage car or her room until her station, ban her for life from using amtrak again and bill her for cleaning fees.
2 wrongs don't make a right after all.

Alpine is NOT in the middle of nowhere! If I had to be put off the Train I wouldn't have any problem being in this nice little Mountain Town!

 

[Dan O]

About 4 years ago I encountered a service dog/support dog of some type on the CZ. The owner told me what the dog was trained to do but I can't recall what it was. The dog was okay but neither the dog nor the owner had bathed in the previous year or two. I guess they were water averse.

 

[cocojacoby]

Many many years ago I used to take the Southern Crescent back and forth to Georgia Tech from my home in Boston. My very first long distance train experience occurred only because that train allowed pets in bedrooms and it was the easiest way to go home with our two cats.

A lot of this fake service animal problem would be alleviated if Amtrak offered more services for regular pets, not to mention a good strong new market for Amtrak.

Nothing would change for service animals, but how about a couple of bedrooms for other pets maybe with rubber flooring and washable seat covers and a pet cleaning fee? Amtrak had a great opportunity to carry larger pets in climate-controlled baggage/dorms but not sure if that is a real possibility because I don't know if the baggage area has A/C and heating.

The Auto Train is a great platform to try something along these lines and the market is certainty there.

Traveling with pets is problematic. People love their pets and this could create a whole new market for Amtrak and stop this fake service animal situation.