Emp Serv to GCT, LSL NYP Suspended, Other NYP Changes 2018

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Even though the Cardinal is now temporarily truncated at Washington, it's still operating using Viewliners, right?

The earlier discussion was there were no spare Superliners so they don't really have a choice then. If they do have spare Superliners and this frees up Viewliners you know what I'm going to do next (although this would only free up two sets per week and it looks like they are trying to keep trains out of Penn Station not add more trains to it.

 

[willem]

Wouldn't the only benefit of converting the Card to Superliners be to increase capacity? 'Cause it's not a very popular or high demand train, and capacity wouldn't DRASTICALLY increase by using Superliners. Additionally, switching Cardinal equipment and therefore accommodation types just adds to list of possible customer complaints (for those already booked). While most people probably won't care about it, some might complain and ask for some kind of compensation if the equipment is different: "I DON"T HAVE A WINDOW FOR MY ROOMETTE UPPER BUNK! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!". That example would be ridiculous and Amtrak obviously wouldn't do that, but my point is that the more stuff they change, the more complaints and hassle Amtrak has to deal with.

If I had booked a Viewliner roomette and Amtrak switched me to a Superliner roomette, that would be a big deal. Your example is not ridiculous, because of the window but even more because of the headroom difference. The Viewliner roomette is vastly superior to the Superliner roomette.

 

[cpotisch]

Wouldn't the only benefit of converting the Card to Superliners be to increase capacity? 'Cause it's not a very popular or high demand train, and capacity wouldn't DRASTICALLY increase by using Superliners. Additionally, switching Cardinal equipment and therefore accommodation types just adds to list of possible customer complaints (for those already booked). While most people probably won't care about it, some might complain and ask for some kind of compensation if the equipment is different: "I DON"T HAVE A WINDOW FOR MY ROOMETTE UPPER BUNK! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!". That example would be ridiculous and Amtrak obviously wouldn't do that, but my point is that the more stuff they change, the more complaints and hassle Amtrak has to deal with.

If I had booked a Viewliner roomette and Amtrak switched me to a Superliner roomette, that would be a big deal. Your example is not ridiculous, because of the window but even more because of the headroom difference. The Viewliner roomette is vastly superior to the Superliner roomette.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

I think we're in the minority, though, given all the people who despise the toilet layout.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Even though the Cardinal is now temporarily truncated at Washington, it's still operating using Viewliners, right?

No one knows. Nothing has been said either way, and has been covered in this thread.
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It is still being mulled even though they are programming single level equipment.

...wow, I stumbled into this discussion.

Serious question: The LSL clearly ran NYG-CHI back in the 70s/80s/early 90s. I know NYS isn't easily accessible from NYG (it's doable, but it involves a messy tangle of connections), so how was the LSL serviced back then? I am presuming at some facility that doesn't accommodate Amtrak equipment regularly now, but beyond that I have no idea.

It was largely serviced in GCT. Remember, GCT had a heavy presence in those days. However, if there were major issues, cars would swap at ALB.

Even though the Cardinal is now temporarily truncated at Washington, it's still operating using Viewliners, right?

The earlier discussion was there were no spare Superliners so they don't really have a choice then. If they do have spare Superliners and this frees up Viewliners you know what I'm going to do next (although this would only free up two sets per week and it looks like they are trying to keep trains out of Penn Station not add more trains to it.

Actually, there are a couple of reasons to go to Superliners. One major reason is they clearly aren't planning to have connections from north of NYP. As such, that eliminates a large swath of your travel. You wouldn't really need a big set of Superliners to accomplish this. You could probably knock it out with 4 cars and a bag.

The second reason is a bit morbid. Remember, that accident in Cayce knocked out a single level set. You won't see the salvageable equipment in service for quite some time. That will make things tight during the peak season, particularly in the case of the Cardinal. It has been running with an additional viewliner for a couple of years now...and you just lost two.

So, I can see a good business case for a small Superliner set. it would not "free up" a single level set or free up viewliners. It would merely compensate for the set that was lost in Cayce.

 

[cpotisch]

Interestingly, while the Cardinal's truncation is listed all over the place on amtrak.com, there is no mention of the Lake Shore. The booking page still shows the LSL as running NYP-CHI, and there's no service alert. Has anyone on here with a pre-existing reservation been notified of a change to their ticket?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Interestingly, while the Cardinal's truncation is listed all over the place on amtrak.com, there is no mention of the Lake Shore. The booking page still shows the LSL as running NYP-CHI, and there's no service alert. Has anyone on here with a pre-existing reservation been notified of a change to their ticket?

Why would they mention the LSL or any other service to GCT when there has been no confirmation? Let's take this back to the beginning:

Now that things are firming up, there is great chance that NO Empire service will operate into NYP this summer. The majority will be diverted to GCT while some of the longer distance trains (e.g. the Adirondack) may terminate in ALB.

Keep a sharp watch.

Note the term "firming up."

Additionally, it was asked when this may occur and the YOU asked is this confirmed. I will quote the answers below:

If they do move on this , do we have any idea of the dates? I'm reserved on the LSL in late may NYP to CHI.

IF this occurs, it will happen at some point after (though close to) Memorial Day and last until Labor Day.

So is this whole thing confirmed or just very likely?

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Extremely likely but there are still logistical issues being ironed out. We were talking about it in the Empire Service Trains to GCT? thread. This also impacts other trains. I've requested a merge.

Try to keep up with your posts, Cpotisch.

 

[niemi24s]

While I suspect connecting service at WAS is off the table, I am interested in seeing how they will accommodate the passengers with existing reservations.

When using "Modify Trip" for my pre-existing reservation (not rezzy) on the Cardinal from CHI to BAL the following was displayed: "A portion of your trip has been canceled. For Assistance, contact an Amtrak representative at 1-800-USA-RAIL (800-872-7245) for assistance."

I've not yet called, but an Arrow query just now shows the WAS to BAL portion of the Cardinal trip replaced with NER #66 arriving BAL at 10:52pm instead of the Cardinal's original 7:16pm. Too late for this old coot, so I'll cancel and fly instead.

 

[cpotisch]

Interestingly, while the Cardinal's truncation is listed all over the place on amtrak.com, there is no mention of the Lake Shore. The booking page still shows the LSL as running NYP-CHI, and there's no service alert. Has anyone on here with a pre-existing reservation been notified of a change to their ticket?

Why would they mention the LSL or any other service to GCT when there has been no confirmation? Let's take this back to the beginning:

Now that things are firming up, there is great chance that NO Empire service will operate into NYP this summer. The majority will be diverted to GCT while some of the longer distance trains (e.g. the Adirondack) may terminate in ALB.

Keep a sharp watch.

Note the term "firming up."

Additionally, it was asked when this may occur and the YOU asked is this confirmed. I will quote the answers below:

If they do move on this , do we have any idea of the dates? I'm reserved on the LSL in late may NYP to CHI.

IF this occurs, it will happen at some point after (though close to) Memorial Day and last until Labor Day.

So is this whole thing confirmed or just very likely?

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Extremely likely but there are still logistical issues being ironed out. We were talking about it in the Empire Service Trains to GCT? thread. This also impacts other trains. I've requested a merge.

Try to keep up with your posts, Cpotisch.

I just found it surprising that things hadn't firmed up with the LSL, at this point.

 

[Ryan]

We are three months out, in your experience when do you expect to see something like this firmed up?

 

[PVD]

We shouldn't forget that the moves of anything to Grand Central involves discussions with and the approval of an outside party, MTA/MNRR. That is not the case with WAS-NYP trains. Even if Amtrak knew what it wanted to do, nothing can be official until MNRR signs off.

 

[Thirdrail7]

We shouldn't forget that the moves of anything to Grand Central involves discussions with and the approval of an outside party, MTA/MNRR. That is not the case with WAS-NYP trains. Even if Amtrak knew what it wanted to do, nothing can be official until MNRR signs off.

That is key. There are major issues involving the Park Avenue Tunnel and as the article mentioned, the need to have the FL9s available to pull the the trains through the tunnel. There were also talks about borrowing cab cars. All of that will help determine how many trains (if any) actually make it to GCT.

Dutchrailnut has a better grasp of the needs and progress on that front...I hope.

Where are you Dutchman?

 

[Anderson]

While I suspect connecting service at WAS is off the table, I am interested in seeing how they will accommodate the passengers with existing reservations.

When using "Modify Trip" for my pre-existing reservation (not rezzy) on the Cardinal from CHI to BAL the following was displayed: "A portion of your trip has been canceled. For Assistance, contact an Amtrak representative at 1-800-USA-RAIL (800-872-7245) for assistance."

I've not yet called, but an Arrow query just now shows the WAS to BAL portion of the Cardinal trip replaced with NER #66 arriving BAL at 10:52pm instead of the Cardinal's original 7:16pm. Too late for this old coot, so I'll cancel and fly instead.

Uh, there's MARC service WAS-BAL (quite heavy on weekdays) and if you arrive early you could probably swap onto an earlier Regional if you're not checking bags. Even if you are, under the circumstances you could probably short-check to WAS.

Edit: BTW, lemonade from lemons on this but if the LSL does either run as a full train to BOS or runs out of NYG, I do want to take that this summer for the novelty. Ditto if we get a Superliner Cardinal...that is always a treat.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

While I suspect connecting service at WAS is off the table, I am interested in seeing how they will accommodate the passengers with existing reservations.

When using "Modify Trip" for my pre-existing reservation (not rezzy) on the Cardinal from CHI to BAL the following was displayed: "A portion of your trip has been canceled. For Assistance, contact an Amtrak representative at 1-800-USA-RAIL (800-872-7245) for assistance."
I've not yet called, but an Arrow query just now shows the WAS to BAL portion of the Cardinal trip replaced with NER #66 arriving BAL at 10:52pm instead of the Cardinal's original 7:16pm. Too late for this old coot, so I'll cancel and fly instead.

66 was probably chosen to cover late 50’s. As someone suggested, check MARC’s schedules between WAS & BAL.

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[PVD]

I believe 66 is one of the rare NER trains with checked baggage, that also makes it a good choice as a guaranteed connection. But an on time Cardinal is in Washington with ample opportunity to switch to earlier trains, you could be almost 2 hours late and still make an ontime Palmetto w/o any trouble if you aren't moving checked bags...

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

I believe 66 is one of the rare NER trains with checked baggage, that also makes it a good choice as a guaranteed connection. But an on time Cardinal is in Washington with ample opportunity to switch to earlier trains, you could be almost 2 hours late and still make an ontime Palmetto w/o any trouble if you aren't moving checked bags...

Yes, 66 does carry checked bags. In fact, it is the only northbound NER that does.

 

[niemi24s]

Thanks for the suggestions and comments, but I just got a full refund for the MKE - CHI - BAL trip and used 43% of it for a non-stop two hour flight from MKE to BWI. The trip on the Cardinal will just have to wait for another day.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I've not yet called, but an Arrow query just now shows the WAS to BAL portion of the Cardinal trip replaced with NER #66 arriving BAL at 10:52pm instead of the Cardinal's original 7:16pm. Too late for this old coot, so I'll cancel and fly instead.

Uh, there's MARC service WAS-BAL (quite heavy on weekdays) and if you arrive early you could probably swap onto an earlier Regional if you're not checking bags. Even if you are, under the circumstances you could probably short-check to WAS.

And if you arrive late? According to Amtrak Status Maps Archive Database, from 1/1/17 to 3/10/18, 50's average delay into WAS is 1'11". On a Sunday, that places the arrival AFTER the last scheduled MARC train. Indeed, there are multiple examples of 50 not only missing the last MARC on weekdays, it also misses 66. The next train is 3:15am.

As Blue mentioned, they do appear to have a transfer built to 66. However, this is what caused the connection problems in the past. How long do you hold 66 for connections versus how long do you let the connecting passengers wait for 190?

66 DOES have SUBSTANTIAL recovery time en route but there are numerous track projects planned. Some of the recovery time will be necessary.

 

[cpotisch]

There is so much significant stuff covered in this thread. I feel like it should be pinned.

 

[greatcats]

I am interested to see what connection the cook up from PHL to 51. That should not be too difficult.

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[neroden]

So, one thing I can say from the ESPA meeting:

There is MAJOR work, which will take months, which will be done on the underpinnings of Spuyten Duyvil bridge, which is antique and was damaged by Sandy. They are actually going to lift the bridge span out of the way, which is necessary so that they can do the work without getting Coast Guard approval to close the water channel, which they would not get.

(They are basically doing every other piece of work they can on the Empire Connection while this is happening, for obvious reasons.)

Obviously the removal of the Spuyten Duyvil bridge prevents any train from entering Penn Station by the Empire Connection. Every other decision is determined by that and they have not finalized operational plans.

(P.S. I'm sure people here will now speculate about bringing the Lake Shore Limited into Penn via the Oak Point Link and the Hell Gate Bridge, or via New Rochelle, or by running it down the Springfield line, but I think you can see why this might not happen.)

Anyway, I hope this clarifies one thing: this time the relocation of Empire Service trains to GCT is not driven by work on the NEC, it is driven specifically by the Spuyten Duyvil work.

 

[cpotisch]

It is pretty frustrating that Amtrak would just change Cardinal pax' e-tickets without including a connecting train. Someone might not notice, and could end up stick in D.C.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It is pretty frustrating that Amtrak would just change Cardinal pax' e-tickets without including a connecting train. Someone might not notice, and could end up stick in D.C.

Do you know for a fact that existing ticket holders have not been given a connection?

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[cpotisch]

It is pretty frustrating that Amtrak would just change Cardinal pax' e-tickets without including a connecting train. Someone might not notice, and could end up stick in D.C.

Do you know for a fact that existing ticket holders have not been given a connection?

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Didn't someone say that their Cardinal e-ticket now only showed CHI-WAS? That it didn't have a connection listed?

 

[Train2104]

Regionals 152 and 153 will not operate effective 3/24. These are not commission hour trains, they're weekend morning service. I wonder why they're affected and not others; after all NYP work on weekends is consistent across the daytime hours and so is the commuter rail schedule.

 

[keelhauled]

There is so much significant stuff covered in this thread. I feel like it should be pinned.

If everything is pinned, nothing is pinned.