Equipment Order in the works this year (2018)?

[chrsjrcj]

Lets just hope a Superliner replacement includes sleeping and food service cars.

 

[cpotisch]

Lets just hope a Superliner replacement includes sleeping and food service cars.

I would be shocked if it didn't include sleepers, but not shocked at all if it didn't include many diners. There's no question that Amtrak is currently leaning away from full service dining, so I imagine they'll cut back the number of diners to only support the two or three night routes.

 

[KmH]

There are 7 overnight Superliner LD train routes west of Chicago, using some 35 diners in total.

• Empire Builder - 6 train sets

• California Zephyr - 6 train sets

• Southwest Chief - 5 train sets

• Coast Starlight- 4 train sets

• Texas Eagle - 6 train sets

• City of New Orleans - 4 train sets

• Sunset Limited - 4 train sets

 

[jis]

I think how much dining service will be there long term on LD trains, and indeed the shape of the LD network will depend on what the Amtrak reauthorization bill says. I don’t think anything is cast in stone at present. That is why it is very important to get the right language in there.

The fleet plan due this summer will give some hint as to what is currently in Amtrak’s mind, but that can change too. Afterall Amtrak management is not the only stakeholder in Amtrak. That is a two edged sword.

 

[cpotisch]

There are 7 overnight Superliner LD train routes west of Chicago, using some 35 diners in total.

• Empire Builder - 6 train sets

• California Zephyr - 6 train sets

• Southwest Chief - 5 train sets

• Coast Starlight- 4 train sets

• Texas Eagle - 6 train sets

• City of New Orleans - 4 train sets

• Sunset Limited - 4 train sets

But if you take the Texas Eagle and CONO, that's 25 diners. And while the Coast Starlight is a one night ride, I would say it's "prestigious" enough that it would keep normal food service.

 

[PRR 60]

New topic merged with prior topic.

 

[Palmetto]

It will be interesting to see what the plan is to replace the superlliners. IMHO a system wide fleet standardization wounded beneficial. I like the viewliners but I don't think that will work I'm the long run. I wonder what Seimans can do for sleepers and diners and lounges?

Yeah, I don't see any way, short term or long term, that Viewliners would work to replace the Superliners. The trains would have to be significantly longer, they would have to commission Viewliner coaches and SSLs. The cars just aren't conducive for western routes.

They were for decades. Why -all of a sudden -aren't they conducive for western routes?

 

[Steve4031]

Imho a standardized fleet is better. This makes maintaining the cars cheaper and easier. Thought I enjoy the superliners, they are getting run down. If siemans can make sleepers, diners, and lounges using cars similar in design to the bright line cars I’m sure this would be a vast improvement.

 

[cpotisch]

It will be interesting to see what the plan is to replace the superlliners. IMHO a system wide fleet standardization wounded beneficial. I like the viewliners but I don't think that will work I'm the long run. I wonder what Seimans can do for sleepers and diners and lounges?

Yeah, I don't see any way, short term or long term, that Viewliners would work to replace the Superliners. The trains would have to be significantly longer, they would have to commission Viewliner coaches and SSLs. The cars just aren't conducive for western routes.

They were for decades. Why -all of a sudden -aren't they conducive for western routes?

Viewliners never operated on western routes. Superliners preceded them by 20 years. What are you referring to?

 

[jis]

But single level Sleepers operated them for almost a hundred years before Superliners. IMHO Superliners just happen to be the fashion of the day for those who were not around when everything was single level, and that is when we had the best of dining, sleeping and Dome service.

 

[Palmetto]

It will be interesting to see what the plan is to replace the superlliners. IMHO a system wide fleet standardization wounded beneficial. I like the viewliners but I don't think that will work I'm the long run. I wonder what Seimans can do for sleepers and diners and lounges?

Yeah, I don't see any way, short term or long term, that Viewliners would work to replace the Superliners. The trains would have to be significantly longer, they would have to commission Viewliner coaches and SSLs. The cars just aren't conducive for western routes.

They were for decades. Why -all of a sudden -aren't they conducive for western routes?

Viewliners never operated on western routes. Superliners preceded them by 20 years. What are you referring to?

Any single level car, as in the current Canadian consist.

 

[frequentflyer]

The thing Superliners have going for them over single level is their increased capacity. And subjectively to me, a more quiet ride being 8 feet or above the wheels. But a Viewliner fleet could make do.

 

[frequentflyer]

The OP didn't say Chargers couldn't be used on the Auto Train, he said he couldn't see it. It was an opinion, not a fact.

I personally think the Superliners were a genius idea. Their high capacity is very practical. Some kind of next generation of bi-level equipment would be the best idea for those routes that can handle the height. Now we just have to find a car builder that can actually make one.

On another rail forum someone posted the idea of a modern day bilevel (unibody like construction?) that could fit in the tunnels in the NEC. That would give Amtrak one fleet of LD cars. A Viewliner/Superliner successor.

 

[cpotisch]

The thing Superliners have going for them over single level is their increased capacity. And subjectively to me, a more quiet ride being 8 feet or above the wheels. But a Viewliner fleet could make do.

Though I prefer Viewliner sleepers to Superliner sleepers, I would say that I prefer Superliners in pretty much every other way. I feel like the Superliners ride better, are quieter, and are just a nicer ride overall. Just my take from the two Superliner trips I've done.

 

[jis]

The OP didn't say Chargers couldn't be used on the Auto Train, he said he couldn't see it. It was an opinion, not a fact.

I personally think the Superliners were a genius idea. Their high capacity is very practical. Some kind of next generation of bi-level equipment would be the best idea for those routes that can handle the height. Now we just have to find a car builder that can actually make one.

On another rail forum someone posted the idea of a modern day bilevel (unibody like construction?) that could fit in the tunnels in the NEC. That would give Amtrak one fleet of LD cars. A Viewliner/Superliner successor.

They already exist. They are called NJT MLVs and also LIRR C3s. You would not use them for LD Coach and even less for Sleeper. Clearly those suggesting have never experienced the vertical space constraints and are armchair car design proposers. [emoji57]

 

[frequentflyer]

The OP didn't say Chargers couldn't be used on the Auto Train, he said he couldn't see it. It was an opinion, not a fact.

I personally think the Superliners were a genius idea. Their high capacity is very practical. Some kind of next generation of bi-level equipment would be the best idea for those routes that can handle the height. Now we just have to find a car builder that can actually make one.

On another rail forum someone posted the idea of a modern day bilevel (unibody like construction?) that could fit in the tunnels in the NEC. That would give Amtrak one fleet of LD cars. A Viewliner/Superliner successor.

They already exist. They are called NJT MLVs and also LIRR C3s. You would not use them for LD Coach and even less for Sleeper. Clearly those suggesting have never experienced the vertical space constraints and are armchair car design proposers. [emoji57]

He or she stated such a car would have a LD car would 6 ft 5 inch height per floor. Kind of tight but bigger windows could negate that effect.

Have ridden the NJT MLVs a couple of times, surprised how quiet it was.

 

[Lonestar648]

The Superliner fleet design to me is superior to a single level design. I do like the extra windows on the Viewliner. One reason I like the CL is the SSL verses the LSL. The Superliners have luggage racks that the Viewliner does not. Stepping off the Superliner is easier in the winter than the several snow covered steps of the single level. The Superliner Sleeper has more Roomettes, a Family Room, more Bedrooms, several bathrooms.

 

[MattW]

If we could go back in time, or send the information we have now back to the designers of the day, I'm sure the NEC would have been built to accommodate Superliner-type cars. The oldest reference I can find with a quick Google to bilevel railcars is the 1950s with the gallery style commuter cars. Bilevel railcars are superior to single-level cars for most things, enough that they should be used where possible.

 

[railiner]

If we could go back in time, or send the information we have now back to the designers of the day, I'm sure the NEC would have been built to accommodate Superliner-type cars. The oldest reference I can find with a quick Google to bilevel railcars is the 1950s with the gallery style commuter cars. Bilevel railcars are superior to single-level cars for most things, enough that they should be used where possible.

You could go back to the thirties, if you include the original Long Island RR "double-deck" MU cars. They were more like "duplex" cars...one aisle, with seats alternately up or down a couple of steps....

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/doubledecker.htm

 

[Ziv]

I agree that Superliners do have some advantages. The ones you note, increased capacity and a seeming reduction in road noise, are probably the most important. But one advantage that the SL has over any single level sleeper is that the extra 7' of height you have as you are looking out of the windows gives you a better view of the countryside, over the top of obstructions that would block the view from a lower level sleeper window. Being able to sit back and watch the countryside roll by is one of my favorite aspects of train travel.

Almost as good as traveling by train is reading about it. I just picked up a copy of The Great Railway Bazaar for about the 4th time and it is just as good this time as it has been in the past.

The thing Superliners have going for them over single level is their increased capacity. And subjectively to me, a more quiet ride being 8 feet or above the wheels. But a Viewliner fleet could make do.

 

[Lonestar648]

If they every build the new tunnels into NYP shouldn't the height be tall enough for superliner cars.

 

[cpotisch]

If they every build the new tunnels into NYP shouldn't the height be tall enough for superliner cars.

I don't think there's enough "headroom" in the station, and NYP only has high-level platforms. So no.

 

[cpotisch]

There's also the fact that almost every station between WAS and ALB (NEC and Empire Corridor) have high-level platforms, and Baltimore doesn't have sufficient clearance for Superliners either.

 

[Ryan]

And countless other structures such as bridges.

The "Superliners on the NEC" is like the zombie dream of the foamer, there's nothing out there that can kill it.

If the fleet ever gets standardized, it'll be on single level equipment. The solution to the capacity "problem" is just ordering more cars.

 

[me_little_me]

It will be interesting to see what the plan is to replace the superlliners. IMHO a system wide fleet standardization wounded beneficial. I like the viewliners but I don't think that will work I'm the long run. I wonder what Seimans can do for sleepers and diners and lounges?

Yeah, I don't see any way, short term or long term, that Viewliners would work to replace the Superliners. The trains would have to be significantly longer, they would have to commission Viewliner coaches and SSLs. The cars just aren't conducive for western routes.

On the other hand, "significantly longer" could be an advantage. Then the Class I RRs couldn't force Amtrak trains on the sidings so their freights could go past.