FDA rules in cafe?

[PVD]

Unless there is something wrong with something at that end, closing it off is certainly wrong. Clearly, the rules allow outside food upstairs in an SSL. If they didn't have a good reason, which they should have been willing and able to articulate, you would certainly have a valid complaint if they asked you (or anyone else) not to bring personal food there.

 

[zephyr17]

Unless there is something wrong with something at that end, closing it off is certainly wrong. Clearly, the rules allow outside food upstairs in an SSL. If they didn't have a good reason, which they should have been willing and able to articulate, you would certainly have a valid complaint if they asked you (or anyone else) not to bring personal food there.

I doubt anyone would have objected to personal food at the upstairs tables. Of course, upstairs is not staffed so there was no one there to object, and I don't think the conductors passing through cared either way. Plus it is allowed per the service standards manual.

Just to be perfectly clear, on my 8/6 trip, the upstairs tables in the Sightseer were open as usual. It was downstairs tables in the cafe that someone (presumably the LSA) barricaded off.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Your post said LD trains shouldn't vary, don't disagree. And generally they don't. Where were they selling the cafe food on those Starlight runs?

Downstairs.

And to the general consumer it’s not going to matter what’s upstairs and downstairs.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I doubt anyone would have objected to personal food at the upstairs tables. Of course, upstairs is not staffed so there was no one there to object, and I don't think the conductors passing through cared either way. Plus it is allowed per the service standards manual.

Just to be perfectly clear, on my 8/6 trip, the upstairs tables in the Sightseer were open as usual. It was downstairs tables in the cafe that someone (presumably the LSA) barricaded off.

Same on my trips this month.

 

[TheCrescent]

Amtrak cafe cars are the worst thing about Amtrak: gas station food but with service that makes gas stations seem upscale and appealing. And a 1970s ambiance in Amfleet cafes.

 

[Ryan]

I like it when people say "gas station food" like it's some sort of a bad thing. Clearly you people need to find yourselves in a Wawa/RoFo/Sheetz or your local equivalent. Some high quality food to be procured at those evil gas stations.

 

[PVD]

Agree about the ambience, although attempts to do something more modern and nicer, like the Acela Bistro, are not really better for service and passenger utility. Funny thing about the cafe cars, some of the items are pretty good, mixed in with the mundane. I've had some good sandwiches, and once in a while a regional item (they come and go based on the whims of States) Nuns of Skeet Cheesecake was as good as it can get. And prep makes a huge difference. When there is time, separating bun from burger or hot dog makes a huge difference. Hebrew National is not a bad hot dog.

 

[Qapla]

I have not ridden the train since the pandemic started. Before that, I have ridden both Silvers ... day trips to Tampa and LD trips to NY. We were never told we could not eat the food we brought with us in the cafe/lounge car. Additionally, some of the crew were eating food they brought on the train (homemade in plastic containers) in the cafe/lounge car.

According to what was posted:

b) All other Food Service Cars are intended for the consumption of only Amtrak provided
meals, snacks and beverages, with the following exceptions.
• When a customer makes a purchase from the long distance Lounge Car, only then may the customer
consume personal food and beverages in the lower level of a Superliner Lounge Car.
• Customers are prohibited from consuming personal food and beverage items in all single level Long
Distance Lounge and all Dining Cars.
c) Amtrak is prohibited from providing any refrigeration, thawing, heating, cooking, or storage
of any food or beverage items brought on board by customers or employees.

There are no exceptions for employees to eat non-Amtrak food in the cafe/lounge car, but they do it. Seems they would be hard-pressed to tell passengers they can't eat their own food while sitting there eating food they brought from home.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Agree. I don't think it's unreasonable to save seats/tables for customers who patronize the café car, especially when eating space is limited.

On long distance trains cafe tables are rarely full but often reserved for staff. The only difference is now they're blaming the FDA for house rules about table use.

I like it when people say "gas station food" like it's some sort of a bad thing. Clearly you people need to find yourselves in a Wawa/RoFo/Sheetz or your local equivalent. Some high quality food to be procured at those evil gas stations.

Compared to the cafe car's vending machine fare some gas station food would be considered fine dining. The cafe car menus are changing so we'll see if the situation improves.

 

[Willbridge]

The blocking off downstairs was clearly yet another YMMV action by the attendant. I saw that myself on the Starlight on 8/6 and was surprised. It was the first time I've ever seen that done when the cafe was staffed in 40 years of regularly riding Superliners.

Personal food on the NE Regionals is specified in the manual. To be consistent, that should be changed to be forbidden as well. How is a passenger to know that food is allowed on a Regional when it is not on Empire Service and the cars are identical. No stairs there, as PVD pointed out.

I noticed the total blocking of the lower level tables on Train 11 from PDX on August 5. Community seating upstairs resulted, but I don't think everyone was happy about it.

 

[Anderson]

I'll also point out, in passing, that outside of "cafe hours" on LD trains, the rules tend not to be enforced in any meaningful way (i.e. if you're in there after about 10 and things are closed, you're far less likely to get yelled at).

It's probably also unclear what would happen if (for example) you purchased a burger but had your own water (say, from the sleeper - we'll use the example of somebody who couldn't find a workable item on that night's menu from the diner) to go with it.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

I read on another thread here that one could obtain hot water to use with one's own tea bags/ramen cups/etc.. I would assume that the hot water would have to be in an Amtrak-provided disposable cup, and the hot water would have to be combined with the personal food requiring hot water in an area of the train where personal food is allowed.

 

[Joe from PA]

Depends on what is more important...playing games, or a seat for someone to use while they eat. However, I fault Amtrak for calling it a "Lounge Car". It's a Cafe Dining car.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Depends on what is more important...playing games, or a seat for someone to use while they eat. However, I fault Amtrak for calling it a "Lounge Car". It's a Cafe Dining car.

Does Amtrak call it a lounge car on the single level trains? I thought only some riders called it that.

 

[Barb Stout]

I remember seeing previous posts about the lounge attendants sometimes not letting people sit at the tables without eating something. On our most recent trip in late July/early August, we wanted to play a board game that takes up a lot of table space. All the tables on the upper sightseeing lounge area were taken (SWC), so we went downstairs to the lounge and asked if we could use one of those tables to play our game and the lounge attendant was very friendly and said, "Yes, of course". We went back to where we were storing the game which entailed going through the upstairs sightseeing lounge area and a table had opened up, so we ended up taking that table instead. But we were happy that this lounge attendant was accommodating.

 

[railiner]

It is amazing what befriending an employee for a little while can accomplish...be it on Amtrak, or anywhere else, I have found that if you build up a little of a personal relationship, can lead to them treating you very well, later, if you request some sort of favor.

 

[Nick Farr]

- The cafe lounge is only for use of passengers who buy something in the cafe.

Are either of these things true, or just made up rules by this crew? I had been planning on spending part of the day playing games with my family in the lounge.

That part is true.

From the time I started riding Amtrak on the Pere Marquette in the 90s, it's never been safe to hang out on a train in a car where food is being served. I've been told to vacate a table from an automat car. The only exception I've known to this is the Sightseer Lounge on the CZ and the TE, and even then the conductors will reserve the right to tell you to leave at peak times.

Having a kid who is rambunctious as all get out, I totally understand what's driving that plan--however, you can never make those assumptions on Amtrak. I'm not saying it's right or good, but whatever the train crew says is what you have to follow, end of story.

 

[toddinde]

I'm on the Lake Shore Limited now. [448 (18)] The cafe attendant just made an announcement with lots of restrictions. I question two things:

- FDA rules state that no personal food or drink can be brought into the cafe.

- The cafe lounge is only for use of passengers who buy something in the cafe.

Are either of these things true, or just made up rules by this crew? I had been planning on spending part of the day playing games with my family in the lounge.

I think it’s an Amtrak rule. The only exception is the upper level of the Superliner.

 

[John Webb]

As a former 10 year Amtrak employee with much of that time as an LSA in cafe cars my answer to both questions is: yes.

Not sure if is an FRA rule, but it is a rule and I enforced it during my time.

 

[basketmaker]

I'm on the Lake Shore Limited now. [448 (18)] The cafe attendant just made an announcement with lots of restrictions. I question two things:

- FDA rules state that no personal food or drink can be brought into the cafe.

- The cafe lounge is only for use of passengers who buy something in the cafe.

Are either of these things true, or just made up rules by this crew? I had been planning on spending part of the day playing games with my family in the lounge.

I have heard the same announcement many times on multiple different routes. And I have only seen any enforcement of eating in the lounge being on the lower level. I have seen many (usually Amish and/or Mennonite families) dining on their homemade meals upstairs without any issues. Though I do believe that is probably a legit FDA regulation.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Not sure if is an FRA rule, but it is a rule and I enforced it during my time.

I’m quite certain the FRA doesn’t care.

“It is a rule” - does that mean it’s an Amtrak rule? Which rule are you referring to?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It is amazing what befriending an employee for a little while can accomplish...be it on Amtrak, or anywhere else, I have found that if you build up a little of a personal relationship, can lead to them treating you very well, later, if you request some sort of favor.

What's amazing are people who choose a service career needing to be coaxed into friendly behavior. If being kind to strangers is a bridge too far then maybe it's time for these people to find another job.

Though I do believe that is probably a legit FDA regulation.

Good luck finding an FDA regulation specifying which foods can be consumed on which tables.

 

[Barb Stout]

What's amazing are people who choose a service career needing to be coaxed into friendly behavior. If being kind to strangers is a bridge too far then maybe it's time for these people to find another job.


Good luck finding an FDA regulation specifying which foods can be consumed on which tables.

It probably is some kind of food safety rule. I remember getting really mad when I had purchased a steak dinner at a restaurant in a hotel (Hilton-type) that I couldn't finish. The hotel had refrigerators in the rooms and naturally I stored it there. The next day, I brought the leftover steak to the hotel's restaurant where I had purchased it the day before (for a lot of money and the hotel room was of course a lot of money also) and asked if they would warm it up for me. The chef said no because there was no way of knowing how I had stored it. I got really mad and sat at the entrance to the restaurant and ate it cold bare-handed without silverware because no way was I going to waste that food and money. Since then, I try to only visit hotels that have both a refrigerator and microwave in their rooms as only rarely can I finish a restaurant meal in one sitting.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

It probably is some kind of food safety rule. I remember getting really mad when I had purchased a steak dinner at a restaurant in a hotel (Hilton-type) that I couldn't finish. The hotel had refrigerators in the rooms and naturally I stored it there. The next day, I brought the leftover steak to the hotel's restaurant where I had purchased it the day before (for a lot of money and the hotel room was of course a lot of money also) and asked if they would warm it up for me. The chef said no because there was no way of knowing how I had stored it. I got really mad and sat at the entrance to the restaurant and ate it cold bare-handed without silverware because no way was I going to waste that food and money.

Was there a microwave in your hotel room, so you could warm it up yourself? (Although granted microwave-reheated food can suffer in texture & taste.)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It probably is some kind of food safety rule. I remember getting really mad when I had purchased a steak dinner at a restaurant in a hotel (Hilton-type) that I couldn't finish. The hotel had refrigerators in the rooms and naturally I stored it there. The next day, I brought the leftover steak to the hotel's restaurant where I had purchased it the day before (for a lot of money and the hotel room was of course a lot of money also) and asked if they would warm it up for me. The chef said no because there was no way of knowing how I had stored it. I got really mad and sat at the entrance to the restaurant and ate it cold bare-handed without silverware because no way was I going to waste that food and money. Since then, I try to only visit hotels that have both a refrigerator and microwave in their rooms as only rarely can I finish a restaurant meal in one sitting.

The FDA is not responsible for keeping your unfinished steak safe and edible, but they are responsible for preventing your unfinished steak from contaminating unsold commercial food. That is why hotels and restaurants are prevented from commingling personal and commercial food in ovens and refrigerators. The FDA does not care if you bring your own food or drinks to a restaurant table so long as nothing from that table is allowed back into the areas where the unsold commercial food is stored or prepared.