February 2017 Empire Builder Weather Cancellations

[jebr]

Some posts have been removed as they were related to an article from 2014 and were presented as an update to the current status of the train. They have been removed to prevent confusion.

 

[jis]

Glacier Park has issued a special permit to BNSF allowing it to use various means to trigger avalanches to make both their tracks and US-2 safer to traverse, after those triggered avalanches are cleared. So bet on things taking a few days before anything moves.

http://flatheadbeacon.com/2017/02/07/glacier-park-issues-permit-avalanche-mitigation-marias-pass/

Here is some more details on the closure:

http://www.flatheadavalanche.org/announcements/mon-02062017-2025/portions-glacier-national-park-closed-avalanche-mitigation-272017

 

[jis]

According to postings on Facebook from various people who are on the various disrupted 7 and 8, Amtrak has set up a bus bridge between Shelby and Whitefish via Missoula (since Marias Pass is still closed). There is talk of some bus running even from Spokane to Shelby. Haven't heard anything so far about the train that got turned in Minot.

Our friends Malcolm and Abe managed to take a bus from Cut bank or Shelby to Great Falls yesterday and then fly out from there to their destination.

 

[keelhauled]

BNSF estimates one track will be opened by midnight tonight (12:01 AM 2/8).

 

[RalphCT]

According to the MT DOT US 2 between East and West Glacier opened to traffic late Tuesday afternoon (Feb. 7, 2017). I'm scheduled to travel on the Empire Builder next week from Shelby to Saint Paul and am hoping the line is running smoothly by then.

A big warmup is in the weather forecast. While presently -20 to -30 F in the Glacier Park region highs are forecast to reach well into the +40F range beginning Thursday (2/9). Unfortunately streams may experience ice dams and flooding may occur.

 

[jis]

BNSF estimates one track will be opened by midnight tonight (12:01 AM 2/8).

http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-consumer/3F723B9C06C8802B862580C1002D0A16?Open

At least one track opened a little before midnight of 7 Feb ( - 8 Feb) The other track is expected to open sometime today (8 Feb), Amtrak will probably have to wait another 48 hours before it is allowed through.

 

[Rover]

BNSF re-opens Montana line after avalanche

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/montana-avalanche-halts-amtrak-trains.html

Snowstorm photos

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2017/02/07/bnfs-gets-permit-blast-reduce-avalanche-danger/97589252/

 

[RalphCT]

The warm weather and wind that was forecast has begun. -20F Wednesday morning (2/8/17), +45F this morning (2/9/17). Winds went from 0 to 30 so far. Highest winds are forecast for this afternoon. The very fast warmup has caused the snow to get wet quickly. The heavier wet snow does not blow as much. Both Train 7 originating from Chicago on 2/7 and Train 8 originating from Seattle on 2/7 now show Service Disruption in Montana.

 

[jis]

I think it may be the BNSF 48 hour thing which will cause a bus bridge between Whitefish and Shelby today too.

 

[bmjhagen9426]

Just because that the train is scheduled to go all the way does not mean that the 48-hour thing is over, or the interruption is due to other factors, such as washouts.

 

[jis]

There are reports now of another massive avalanche in Marias Pass, and everything is shut down again. There is nothing about it on the BNSF Notifications site yet.

Some reports suggest this one is bigger than the last one. One mentions that it is 5,000' long and 8' deep.

Perhaps the rapid rise in temperature is destabilizing the piles of snow on the slopes?

Confirmation from BNSF:

http://domino.bnsf.com/website/updates.nsf/updates-service-consumer/C4B362200CBC5A4B862580C2006C8552

 

[fritz]

Anyone have an update on Marias Pass and the Empire Builder? We're ticketed on 7(10) this afternoon to Seattle....sounds like we won't be going anywhere. Just trying to second guess a backup plan. I imagine at a minimum there's the 48 hour hold from the morning of the 9th.

800 number lady says computer showing #7 departing Chicago as planned....I don't think so! I see US2 is still closed this morning over Marias and #7 and #8 trainsets still holding at odd places, looks like Chicago-MSP from yesterday operatinge as shuttle. Anybody with local info would appreciate update. Thanks!

 

[west point]

Anyone have an update on Marias Pass and the Empire Builder? We're ticketed on 7(10) this afternoon to Seattle....sounds like we won't be going anywhere. Just trying to second guess a backup plan. I imagine at a minimum there's the 48 hour hold from the morning of the 9th.

Best bet get Amtrak to rebook you SW Chief to LAX and Coast Starlight to SEA at no additional cost. CAL Z will not be going thru SLC - Reno any time soon. As well Starlight should be able to go PDX - SEA by time you get there if not any more landslides PDX - SEA..

 

[RalphCT]

As of Friday morning US 2 across Marias Pass is still closed between Essex and Browning due to an avalanche yesterday and continuing avalanche danger. This is according to the MT DOT.

A passenger on 8(8) that was holding in Whitefish said the conductor told her that an announcement about opening the line (or not) would be made by BNSF at 9:00 am MST on Friday 2/10. other than that we'll have to wait and see.

I am scheduled to MSP departing Shelby next Tuesday. I'm also looking at alternatives.

 

[jis]

Rapid melt at the higher temps up there together with the five feet plus of recent snowfall, will tend to keep the danger of avalanches high for a while., I guess.

An interesting tidbit that I learned from a friend who is familiar ith that area is that the avalanches are taking place this time in areas that were not considered to be avalanche prone. So they are coming down on the track in places where there are no avalanche guards or snow sheds, making it that much more difficult to deal with.

 

[JoeBas]

After reading "The White Cascade", I'm not sure I'd want to try and force a train trip through there right now.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Rapid melt at the higher temps up there together with the five feet plus of recent snowfall, will tend to keep the danger of avalanches high for a while., I guess.

An interesting tidbit that I learned from a friend who is familiar ith that area is that the avalanches are taking place this time in areas that were not considered to be avalanche prone. So they are coming down on the track in places where there are no avalanche guards or snow sheds, making it that much more difficult to deal with.

I'm no Scientist, but sounds like Climate Change to me!

 

[JoeBas]

Rapid melt at the higher temps up there together with the five feet plus of recent snowfall, will tend to keep the danger of avalanches high for a while., I guess.

An interesting tidbit that I learned from a friend who is familiar ith that area is that the avalanches are taking place this time in areas that were not considered to be avalanche prone. So they are coming down on the track in places where there are no avalanche guards or snow sheds, making it that much more difficult to deal with.

I'm no Scientist, but sounds like Climate Change to me!

I AM a scientist, and I would caution anyone from attributing an unlikely but isolated event as "Climate Change". Keep in mind that in the book I just mentioned, one of the prime defenses the GN used after the fact was that the area where the avalanche happened "Had no recorded history of being avalanche prone".

Climate change IS real. But there's a difference between "Weather" and "Climate".

 

[Carolina Special]

Wouldn't the area where the avalanche occurred only have had a couple of decades of observation in 1910? I believe the route was only built in the 1890s. Which would make GN's "recorded history" defense a little flimsy at the time.

I do agree with the comments on climate change versus weather.

 

[JoeBas]

That's true, but observations in Marias Pass don't go back much farther, and even 100 years (or 120 years now, I guess) is a drop in the bucket in Climate time.

 

[JoeBas]

A good analogy here for the "Weather vs. Climate" distinction:

Weather: It's been a REALLY SNOWY winter this year!

Climate: There are no more glaciers in a park named GLACIER PARK.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Aren't the world's Glaciers melting including Glacier Park???

That spells Climate Change to me,not "Weather!"

 

[jis]

Aren't the world's Glaciers melting including Glacier Park???

That spells Climate Change to me,not "Weather!"

Yes. But that is a different issue from the snowfall and avalanches. I think that is the point that Jo is making.

BTW, he Empire Builder is in Service Disruption all over the place and yet, the seemingly useless Amtrak Service Alerts and Notices page has no mention - none - about the Empire Builder.

It does have a mention about disruption between Portland and Everett, but no mention of anything about service, or lack thereof, between Whitefish and Shelby!

This is a bit of an ongoing issue with Amtrak's web site. It seems to be somewhat disconnected from current events. I wonder why.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks jis,point taken!

Perhaps moving the IT Dept. to Atlanta, along with the ongoing shakeups in the Executive Ranks, has somethi g to do with the lack of current info on the Hi-Line mess????

 

[jis]

Thanks jis,point taken!

Perhaps moving the IT Dept. to Atlanta, along with the ongoing shakeups in the Executive Ranks, has somethi g to do with the lack of current info on the Hi-Line mess????

They have never been very good at putting short term Irregular Operations Notifications on their website. They have claimed in the past that for such subscribe to their Twitter account or some such. It is actually so trivial to hookup their Twitter account to a panel on their website that it boggles my mind that this is even an issue.