Ferries, Ferries, and still more Ferries

[Swadian Hardcore]

A private ferry between the stateside and Canada wouldn't survive financially?

Apparently not.....at least the operation in discussion between Toronto and Rochester. Other's survive, most notably the Clipper between Victoria and Seattle....see http://www.clippervacations.com/clipper-ferry/

In addition there is a car ferry between Victoria and Port Angeles....https://cohoferry.com/

I'm thinking that Milwaukee-Muskegon could turn a profit.

As for more inland ferries....there used to be one at the appropriately named Dingman's Ferry, Pa. across the scenic upper Delaware river to New Jersey. It has long been replaced by a privately owned toll bridge, one of only three in the entire United States. Anyone know the other two? I'll answer that later if no replies........

I guess no one seems interested in this, but in case they are, the other two are the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor, and the Royal Gorge Bridge in Colorado.

There used to be a ferry across the Royal Gorge? How'd they do that?

Are you just talking about private toll bridges or a ferry?

The Chicago Skyway is a private toll road, but not an overwater bridge. The Skyway Comission should have just bought it isntead of leasing it for 99 years.

 

[railiner]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.

Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.
Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

Too bad about the Tennesse Pass Route. A tourist train could do great on it by running Pueblo-SLC through the Pass and other scenic attractions. It could even make a profit off the tourists.

Now that I check my maps, the Chicago Skyway does cross the Calumet River. The route sure is much faster than taking US 41 south from Lake Shore Drive. It must make a mighty profit for the private operators.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The new ferry won’t be as fast as the Cat and will probably operate overnight......a mini-cruise with cabins, casino, entertainment and buffet dining.

Here's a little more on the Maine <> NS "Nova Star" with some interior shots (the video link is the same as posted before)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1148092-video-a-closer-look-at-the-ferry-planned-for-yarmouth#novaphotos

Besides the 163 cabins with 650 berths, there's also First-class lie-flat seats......now those are nice! This is what Amtrak and VIA need for overnight coach.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Nova Scotia has a few Cable Ferries which are part of the provincial highway system. They cross rivers or small waters and could just as easily be replaced by a bridge. But most are navigable waters and would require a lift or swing span along with an operator. They’re not busy roads so the ferries continue......and besides it’s a nice break.

Englishtown.....it’s 150m (500’) across the channel. Here you can see the ferry just leaving the tip of the sandbar at Jersey Cove.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Little Narrows: (again.....it could easily be replaced with a bridge)

 

[NS VIA Fan]

.....and Country Harbour.......it’s a little farther across.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.
Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

Too bad about the Tennesse Pass Route. A tourist train could do great on it by running Pueblo-SLC through the Pass and other scenic attractions. It could even make a profit off the tourists.

Now that I check my maps, the Chicago Skyway does cross the Calumet River. The route sure is much faster than taking US 41 south from Lake Shore Drive. It must make a mighty profit for the private operators.

I'm not sure how the private operators are doing but the City of Chicago lost money for years on the Skyway. It only became profitable when a casino was built in Hammond on the Indiana state line.

By the way, the skyway is officially a bridge. The city was prohibited by state law from building a toll highway, but it could build a toll bridge, thus the Skyway is officially a bridge with very long approaches.

 

[railiner]

The new ferry won’t be as fast as the Cat and will probably operate overnight......a mini-cruise with cabins, casino, entertainment and buffet dining.

Here's a little more on the Maine <> NS "Nova Star" with some interior shots (the video link is the same as posted before)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1148092-video-a-closer-look-at-the-ferry-planned-for-yarmouth#novaphotos

Besides the 163 cabins with 650 berths, there's also First-class lie-flat seats......now those are nice! This is what Amtrak and VIA need for overnight coach.

Once again, thanks for your great links and photo's!

As for those seats....it appears from the photo that they would take up a lot more space for say four passengers, than a cabin with berths for four would due to not having upper and lower to utilize the height of the ceiling.....

I was reading the comments from people regarding the subsidy for the new service....seems like there is a lot of strong opposition to government funding of various things both public and private in NS......

Regarding ferries that could easily be replaced by bridges....the most glaring example in my area are the North Ferry and the South Ferry to and from Shelter Island, Long Island. Probably because the residents don't want 'outsider's' driving thru their island.....

 

[MrFSS]

I have to brag about a ferry that is close to where I live in Central Kentucky.

Website

Some info about this one:

About the Ferry:

The Valley View Ferry primarily services the residents of Fayette, Jessamine, and Madison counties.

It is the oldest year-round ferry service in the United States and the last ferry remaining on the Kentucky River.

Founded seven years before Kentucky became a state, the Valley View Ferry's charter was signed by Virginia Governor Patrick Henry in 1785.

 

[Anderson]

The new ferry won’t be as fast as the Cat and will probably operate overnight......a mini-cruise with cabins, casino, entertainment and buffet dining.

Here's a little more on the Maine <> NS "Nova Star" with some interior shots (the video link is the same as posted before)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1148092-video-a-closer-look-at-the-ferry-planned-for-yarmouth#novaphotos

Besides the 163 cabins with 650 berths, there's also First-class lie-flat seats......now those are nice! This is what Amtrak and VIA need for overnight coach.

Once again, thanks for your great links and photo's!

As for those seats....it appears from the photo that they would take up a lot more space for say four passengers, than a cabin with berths for four would due to not having upper and lower to utilize the height of the ceiling.....

I was reading the comments from people regarding the subsidy for the new service....seems like there is a lot of strong opposition to government funding of various things both public and private in NS......

Regarding ferries that could easily be replaced by bridges....the most glaring example in my area are the North Ferry and the South Ferry to and from Shelter Island, Long Island. Probably because the residents don't want 'outsider's' driving thru their island.....

From what it sounds like, the route is set pretty well for around a 10-hour run (give or take an hour). That basically means either one side of the trip per ship is overnight or you lose half of your potential equipment time...there was a railroad in New Zealand that did something like this on a major intercity run that was about 8-9 hours: They simply got a running pair of trains and ran each one way in the day and the other at night.

Ideally, there will be two boats so you'll have a day option and a night option each way. I'm glad to see this potentially coming to pass...I really do bristle at cruises-as-we-know-them, but I do like the idea (and option) of sea-based transportation.

One other thought: This really is transportation, more or less. It's dressed up nice, it's got good OBS, but it's functional point-to-point transportation above all else. Hopefully it'll be able to handle the truck traffic that kept the old route afloat (no pun intended), but I'm glad to see a ship-based overnight trip that isn't "just" a cruise.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

From what it sounds like, the route is set pretty well for around a 10-hour run (give or take an hour). That basically means either one side of the trip per ship is overnight or you lose half of your potential equipment time....
Ideally, there will be two boats so you'll have a day option and a night option each way. I'm glad to see this potentially coming to pass...I really do bristle at cruises-as-we-know-them, but I do like the idea (and option) of sea-based transportation.

One other thought: This really is transportation, more or less. It's dressed up nice, it's got good OBS, but it's functional point-to-point transportation above all else. Hopefully it'll be able to handle the truck traffic that kept the old route afloat (no pun intended), but I'm glad to see a ship-based overnight trip that isn't "just" a cruise.

I haven’t seen any proposed schedule yet but when the Scotia Prince operated, it was 11 hours overnight to Yarmouth with a daytime return to Portland. But if you go back to the ‘70s......there were two ferries a day each way.

At that time, CN was also operating a Yarmouth to Bar Harbor, Maine ferry and for awhile in the early ‘80s they also operated to Portland but that was mainly a truck ferry with limited passenger accommodations.

They were busy routes for a few years but after 9-11 the US tourists were staying home, the Canadian dollar gained in value so it was no longer the bargain here it once was and now there’s the passport requirement. Hopefully the new ferry can make a go of it.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.
Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

Too bad about the Tennesse Pass Route. A tourist train could do great on it by running Pueblo-SLC through the Pass and other scenic attractions. It could even make a profit off the tourists.

Now that I check my maps, the Chicago Skyway does cross the Calumet River. The route sure is much faster than taking US 41 south from Lake Shore Drive. It must make a mighty profit for the private operators.

I'm not sure how the private operators are doing but the City of Chicago lost money for years on the Skyway. It only became profitable when a casino was built in Hammond on the Indiana state line.

By the way, the skyway is officially a bridge. The city was prohibited by state law from building a toll highway, but it could build a toll bridge, thus the Skyway is officially a bridge with very long approaches.

What about all the other tollways built in Illinois? If they were prohibitied by state law, why did the state build other tollways around of Chicago?

Nova Scotia has a few Cable Ferries which are part of the provincial highway system. They cross rivers or small waters and could just as easily be replaced by a bridge. But most are navigable waters and would require a lift or swing span along with an operator. They’re not busy roads so the ferries continue......and besides it’s a nice break.

Do these Cable Ferries have their own power or are they pulled along a cable? I have very little knowledge about ferries.

 

[railiner]

And to add to Swadian's question....if those ferries are pulled along (or by) a cable, don't those cables block navigation as much or more than a bridge would?

 

[NS VIA Fan]

And to add to Swadian's question....if those ferries are pulled along (or by) a cable, don't those cables block navigation as much or more than a bridge would?

The ferries are powered and pull themselves along the cable or use it as a guide. There is a lot of slack in the cable and it just falls away to the bottom so there is no impediment to navigation. You will see the cable in front of the ferry as it is pulling.....getting close to shore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_ferry

The ferry routes are marked on navigation charts and there are also signs along the shore indication not to drop anchor as the cable might be snagged.

They are common here and I’ve never heard of an incident.

 

[Ryan]

Over simplified version: imagine yourself on a boat, holding a rope that's tied to the other bank and pulling yourself across the river. That's all these ferries are, with the rope tied to both shorelines and long enough to lay on the bottom.

I grew up not far from White's Ferry, which crosses the Potomac in northern Montgomery county, which is another cable ferry.

 

[railiner]

Thanks guys, for clearing that up.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

And to add to Swadian's question....if those ferries are pulled along (or by) a cable, don't those cables block navigation as much or more than a bridge would?

The ferries are powered and pull themselves along the cable or use it as a guide. There is a lot of slack in the cable and it just falls away to the bottom so there is no impediment to navigation. You will see the cable in front of the ferry as it is pulling.....getting close to shore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_ferry

The ferry routes are marked on navigation charts and there are also signs along the shore indication not to drop anchor as the cable might be snagged.

They are common here and I’ve never heard of an incident.

If the ferries themselves are powered, why not just get rid of the cable and sterr the boat across?

 

[Anderson]

Because the cable gives the ferries an easy way to stay on course (or to get pulled back on course if they get nudged off), especially if the currents are a bit strong on a given day. Bear in mind that these aren't the large ferries of elsewhere...some ferries are only 1-2 car operations, while others might get up to 20 cars...but in the scheme of things, they're small and therefore more easily pushed off course by the flow of the river.

 

[MikefromCrete]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.
Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

Too bad about the Tennesse Pass Route. A tourist train could do great on it by running Pueblo-SLC through the Pass and other scenic attractions. It could even make a profit off the tourists.

Now that I check my maps, the Chicago Skyway does cross the Calumet River. The route sure is much faster than taking US 41 south from Lake Shore Drive. It must make a mighty profit for the private operators.

I'm not sure how the private operators are doing but the City of Chicago lost money for years on the Skyway. It only became profitable when a casino was built in Hammond on the Indiana state line.

By the way, the skyway is officially a bridge. The city was prohibited by state law from building a toll highway, but it could build a toll bridge, thus the Skyway is officially a bridge with very long approaches.

What about all the other tollways built in Illinois? If they were prohibitied by state law, why did the state build other tollways around of Chicago?

Nova Scotia has a few Cable Ferries which are part of the provincial highway system. They cross rivers or small waters and could just as easily be replaced by a bridge. But most are navigable waters and would require a lift or swing span along with an operator. They’re not busy roads so the ferries continue......and besides it’s a nice break.

Do these Cable Ferries have their own power or are they pulled along a cable? I have very little knowledge about ferries.

The other tollways were built by the state, which is allowed by state law. Municipalities are barred from building toll roads.

 

[rrdude]

Over simplified version: imagine yourself on a boat, holding a rope that's tied to the other bank and pulling yourself across the river. That's all these ferries are, with the rope tied to both shorelines and long enough to lay on the bottom.
I grew up not far from White's Ferry, which crosses the Potomac in northern Montgomery county, which is another cable ferry.

Just used Whites ferry las year. Saved me a ton of driving time to Dulles, from where I was. http://canal.mcmullans.org/whites_ferry.htm

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The Royal Gorge of the Arkansas River has no ferry across it. Only the bridge, (the world's highest), plus an aerial tram, plus a funicular railway from the top of the gorge down to the former D&RGW station at the bottom. The Rio Grande tracks themselves are suspended by a 'Hanging Bridge' at that point. All in all, an interesting collection of engineering in one compact location. Unfortunately, the park is currently closed due to a devastating wildfire in June, and will need to be rebuilt.
Doesn't the Chicago Skyway cross the Calumet River? I remember what a savings in time it was, and well worth the toll, as compared with taking I-94. I also remember there used to be a Fred Harvey restaurant, at the toll plaza, similar to the Oasis rest stops on the Illinois Tollway. Now I believe it's a McDonald's.....Progress?

Too bad about the Tennesse Pass Route. A tourist train could do great on it by running Pueblo-SLC through the Pass and other scenic attractions. It could even make a profit off the tourists.

Now that I check my maps, the Chicago Skyway does cross the Calumet River. The route sure is much faster than taking US 41 south from Lake Shore Drive. It must make a mighty profit for the private operators.

I'm not sure how the private operators are doing but the City of Chicago lost money for years on the Skyway. It only became profitable when a casino was built in Hammond on the Indiana state line.

By the way, the skyway is officially a bridge. The city was prohibited by state law from building a toll highway, but it could build a toll bridge, thus the Skyway is officially a bridge with very long approaches.

What about all the other tollways built in Illinois? If they were prohibitied by state law, why did the state build other tollways around of Chicago?

Nova Scotia has a few Cable Ferries which are part of the provincial highway system. They cross rivers or small waters and could just as easily be replaced by a bridge. But most are navigable waters and would require a lift or swing span along with an operator. They’re not busy roads so the ferries continue......and besides it’s a nice break.

Do these Cable Ferries have their own power or are they pulled along a cable? I have very little knowledge about ferries.

The other tollways were built by the state, which is allowed by state law. Municipalities are barred from building toll roads.

The state should have just built the Skyway themselves.

 

[Blackwolf]

The new ferry won’t be as fast as the Cat and will probably operate overnight......a mini-cruise with cabins, casino, entertainment and buffet dining.

Here's a little more on the Maine <> NS "Nova Star" with some interior shots (the video link is the same as posted before)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1148092-video-a-closer-look-at-the-ferry-planned-for-yarmouth#novaphotos

Besides the 163 cabins with 650 berths, there's also First-class lie-flat seats......now those are nice! This is what Amtrak and VIA need for overnight coach.

An update on the ferry between Nova Scotia and Maine. An official agreement was signed on September 6th 2013 between Nova Scotia's government and Quest Navigation worth CAD $21 million in direct subsidies over 7 years. Quest Navigation, a Maine company, is now in the final stages of finalizing the deal that would have them buying the ship "Nova Star" from Singapore-based ST Marine for use in this service. The ferry service is scheduled to begin in 2014 with a prospective schedule as follows:

Portland, ME -> Yarmouth, NS

• Depart Portland 8 PM
• Arrive Yarmouth 7 AM

Yarmouth, NS -> Portland, ME

• Depart Yarmouth 9 AM
• Arrive Portland 5 PM

Interesting to note, and somewhat disturbing, are that indications show this to be only a seasonal service running from May 1st through October 31st. Isn't this the same kind of lack of winter service which caused trouble with The Cat? With a ship originally designed for the English Channel, bad weather should not be an issue at all to sailing, and ice is not a factor in the Gulf of Maine. Hopefully I am wrong, and that winter service will also be available.

Deal a big step in revival of Maine-Nova Scotia ferry

 

[Anderson]

Hmm...I'm honestly wondering on that front. Part of the problem is that business falls off in the off-season. That said, if the ferry is successful it seems plausible that they'll extend the service time...the Cat apparently had a lot of issues. I do wonder if this ferry is set up for the truck business the Scotia Prince apparently did so much of?

 

[railiner]

That's the thing.....is this going to be a viable transportation link that will link NS and Maine year 'round, or simply a tourist season excursion? I could see a business model serving both markets.