FRA's Corridor ID Program and possible new Corridors

[railiner]

The Boise - SLC route is actually Boise - SLC - Vegas. It is being referred to as "The Desert Winds Corridor" and is jointly sponsored by the Utah Department of Transportation, Idaho Transportation Department, and Nevada Department of Transportation. With Expressions of support from Salt Lake City, the Utah Transit Authority, Utah Rail Passengers Association, and the City of Boise.

I realise this is about “corridors”, but it seems to me that a Boise-Salt Lake City-Las Vegas train should originate in Portland or Seattle, and terminate in Los Angeles, to tap those major traffic centers, as well as thru passengers. Not to mention, existing maintenance and crew bases…

 

[Anderson]

I realise this is about “corridors”, but it seems to me that a Boise-Salt Lake City-Las Vegas train should originate in Portland or Seattle, and terminate in Los Angeles, to tap those major traffic centers, as well as thru passengers. Not to mention, existing maintenance and crew bases…

Agreed. There are a lot of "dead ends" in those corridor plans - on the eastern side of the US, that Amtrak map had a string of corridors from Miami to Chicago with two gaps: Jacksonville-Savannah and Nashville to Louisville. At some point, it feels like you've got enough segments from a full route together that you should probably just bite the bullet and add the full route...

 

[Willbridge]

I realise this is about “corridors”, but it seems to me that a Boise-Salt Lake City-Las Vegas train should originate in Portland or Seattle, and terminate in Los Angeles, to tap those major traffic centers, as well as thru passengers. Not to mention, existing maintenance and crew bases…

You are right, but current (i.e. 1997) running times would result in marginal hours at Seattle and Los Angeles if it were to be a two-day, one night trip.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

You are right, but current (i.e. 1997) running times would result in marginal hours at Seattle and Los Angeles if it were to be a two-day, one night trip.

Maybe make the thru train PDX to Salt Lake to Vegas and leave PDX to Seattle and Vegas to LA for local service? Portland to Seattle already has frequent ish service and hopefully Vegas to LA will have. Or PDX to Ogden to Cheyenne as one train and Salt Lake to Vegas and LA as another?

 

[MARC Rider]

I realise this is about “corridors”, but it seems to me that a Boise-Salt Lake City-Las Vegas train should originate in Portland or Seattle, and terminate in Los Angeles, to tap those major traffic centers, as well as thru passengers. Not to mention, existing maintenance and crew bases…

OK, so one could have a "corridor" the connects Boise and Las Vegas to Seattle and Los Angeles, but a through train with that routing would be a long-distance overnight (or more) train. The actual trains they run should be day trains maximizing the potential ridership for rides of 500 miles or less (probably closer to 200 miles or less.) This would include multiple departures for each segment and good connections for people taking longer trips.

 

[Anderson]

You are right, but current (i.e. 1997) running times would result in marginal hours at Seattle and Los Angeles if it were to be a two-day, one night trip.

So, I pulled a 1989 timetable. SEA-SLC marks off at about 23 hours (it's just a hair below). SLC-LAX is about 15 hours.

Working from LAX north, here's roughly what I get:
LAX: 0000 (0000 PST)
LAS: 0700 (0700 PST)
SLC: 1500 (1600 MST)
BOI: 2200 (2300 MST)
PDX: 3300 (0900 PST D2)
SEA: 3700 (1300 PST D2)
The above wouldn't be a bad timetable, either.

In the opposite direction:
SEA: 0000
PDX: 0400
BOI: 1500 (1600 MST)
SLC: 2200 (2300 MST)
LAS: 3000 (0600 D2)
LAX: 3700 (1300 D2)

This timetable is a bit of a mess. If you pull it seven hours earlier, however, that gives:
SEA: 1700
PDX: 2100
BOI: 0800 (0900 MST)
SLC: 1500 (1600 MST)
LAS: 2300
LAX: 0600

In both cases, I might "pad" LAS-LAX by about half an hour to get slightly better times in LA without moving Vegas too far into the graveyard.

None of this makes for a great connection with the Zephyr, but you could plausibly pair this with one or two trains only covering the BOI-SLC-LAS segments. If you're willing to run a train on each segment solo, a midday departure from each endpoint would arrive in time to catch the Zephyr with sufficient connection time. As to connecting from the Zephyr? That's a lost cause on the current timetable westbound. Eastbound...the connection works on table, but 0300 isn't really conducive to people making that connection.

 

[jis]

OK, so one could have a "corridor" the connects Boise and Las Vegas to Seattle and Los Angeles, but a through train with that routing would be a long-distance overnight (or more) train. The actual trains they run should be day trains maximizing the potential ridership for rides of 500 miles or less (probably closer to 200 miles or less.) This would include multiple departures for each segment and good connections for people taking longer trips.

Indeed. A single train PDX-SLC or SLC-LAX would be a long distance train, let alone stitching the two together, which produces a train with a running time in the same league as a Western LD train.

So the right place to deal with this is the FRA LD study I suspect.

 

[TransitTyrant]

The Chicago to Peoria route was officially submitted by Illinois. Will passenger rail return to Peoria? Here's the latest on the project and what's next

 

[danasgoodstuff]

Indeed. A single train PDX-SLC or SLC-LAX would be a long distance train, let alone stitching the two together, which produces a train with a running time in the same league as a Western LD train.

So the right place to deal with this is the FRA LD study I suspect.

PDX to Boise and Bosie to Ogden or SLC would be corridors, even PDX to Pocatello is under 750 I think. And Ogden to Cheyenne? But I'm not sure there's any great advantage in breaking things up to make them corridors.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Relatively recent article about extending Brunswick - Rockland ME service using RDC's. My favorite quote:

"Most passenger rail startups consume cash by beginning with a ridership study, but that isn’t happening here. As Midcoast’s Smith puts it, “We can just run the damn service and see if it works!”

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...-for-pilot-of-brunswick-rockland-rdc-service/

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Relatively recent article about extending Brunswick - Rockland ME service using RDC's. My favorite quote:

"Most passenger rail startups consume cash by beginning with a ridership study, but that isn’t happening here. As Midcoast’s Smith puts it, “We can just run the damn service and see if it works!”

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...-for-pilot-of-brunswick-rockland-rdc-service/

Seem he using tax payers funds to run his damn service. Anytime your using other people’s funds then your not too worried about a bad business plan. A written business plan is helpful, at the very least your can check your progress on the to-do list.

In a News Wire interview last August, Quinn said, “Everybody is onboard; we just have to figure out what the formula is.

Good business plan or maybe a traffic study will guild your way.

 

[Anderson]

Seem he using tax payers funds to run his damn service. Anytime your using other people’s funds then your not too worried about a bad business plan. A written business plan is helpful, at the very least your can check your progress on the to-do list.

This is true. That being said, "run the service from a state-only appropriation instead of messing with the federal study process" is a valid approach.

[Actually, in this case a $3m pilot service is probably cheaper than a lot of the studies that get done.]

 

[BlackDiamond]

Maine Eastern seemed to do well enough that they ran this service for several years, even without Amtrak service to Brunswick. It will be a matter of marketing since it has been gone long enough that many people have no awareness of this travel option.

 

[jis]

I am interested in trying to compile a list of Corridor ID applications. Since there is no public "official" list I have created the attached spreadsheet showing ones that I have seen publicly reported.

Do you know of any others?

I am aware of an application sent in by Florida DOT for JAX - ORL - TPA - MIA corridor as it appears in Amtrak's ConnectUS proposal. I suppose it is under CorridorID and Hosts would be CSX, Amtrak, CFRC (Sun Rail) and SFRTA (Tri Rail). This would be under Southeast.

BTW, I don't know how the Host(s) column is defined, but at least under one possible definition, Scranton - NYC would be hosted by Amtrak at the Penn Station end (CP Swift to NYP).

New Orleans - Mobile is primarily hosted on CSX, but there are short segments on NS and Amtrak.

 

[TransitTyrant]

I just learned through the grapevine that Florida DOT in collaboration with Amtrak and with the blessing of Governor DeSantis has applied for IIJA funding for intra Florida service connecting Jacksonville - Orlando - Tampa and Miami.

Do you know anymore details?

 

[jis]

Do you know anymore details?

I might get to know a bit more on the 13th. RPA folks are also on the lookout for FRA to publish the list.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I'm confused about how expanded Amtrak service will duplicate or fit with expanded Brightline, East & West. Can someone help me out here?

 

[railiner]

Relatively recent article about extending Brunswick - Rockland ME service using RDC's. My favorite quote:

"Most passenger rail startups consume cash by beginning with a ridership study, but that isn’t happening here. As Midcoast’s Smith puts it, “We can just run the damn service and see if it works!”

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-rev...-for-pilot-of-brunswick-rockland-rdc-service/

Why could’t they just extend a couple of Downeaster trains to Rockland, and avoid the change? At least on a trial basis?

 

[Brian Battuello]

I'd like to know that as well. As cute as the RDC's are, I'm not as keen on counting on two companies to get me and friends to Rockland reliably. If Amtrak/Maine/Downeaster isn't interested at this time, perhaps a successful RDC service would help convince them. I'm concerned that the RDCs will run mostly as a "tourist" train with limited connection opportunities.

We drive to Rockland about 10 times each summer. Except for highway 1 north of Bath, it is braindead freeway driving. I'd love to take the train but they have to make it easy and reliable.

 

[BlackDiamond]

Why couldn’t they just extend a couple of Downeaster trains to Rockland, and avoid the change? At least on a trial basis?

That was actually the plan and Amtrak even ran a test train but then COVID happened and things got put on hold.
I guess now that this new operation has taken the initiative and has support from the state government, we will have to see how this plays out.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

That was actually the plan and Amtrak even ran a test train but then COVID happened and things got put on hold.
I guess now that this new operation has taken the initiative and has support from the state government, we will have to see how this plays out.

So the lack of interest by Amtrak again.
You would think Maine would have the direct phone number need to make this happen. Unless of course it that weird math they use when charging for there services.

 

[Brian Battuello]

The food (and drink) in the Downeaster Cafe is noticeably better than standard Amtrak. Maybe they are afraid people will experience it and want it nationwide.

 

[jis]

So the lack of interest by Amtrak again.
You would think Maine would have the direct phone number need to make this happen. Unless of course it that weird math they use when charging for there services.

This operation would be entirely funded by the Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority (NNEPRA), an agency of the State of Maine. It is for them to initiate. It would be run using equipment that they lease. It would be part of the Downeaster set of service if it is run by the State. OTOH, if a private outfit runs it I am sure the State will be happy to let that happen too.

Corridors that are identified through the Corridor ID program do not all have to be operated by Amtrak AFAIK.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The food (and drink) in the Downeaster Cafe is noticeably better than standard Amtrak. Maybe they are afraid people will experience it and want it nationwide.

The Downeaster cafe operation is contracted out to a company NexDine which is why it is different from the standard Amtrak cafe operation.

 

[railiner]

Do Amtrak LSA’s work those cafe’s?

If not, why don’t other state funded trains do likewise?