Future of Atlanta Amtrak Station

[John Bobinyec]

What is the current status of the Atlanta station? There's apparently construction going on all around it. Does it have anything to do with the station? What's the latest scuttlebutt about moving to a better location downtown?

Thanks,

jb

 

[MattW]

I believe that this is aimed at fixing its parking lot. While the station itself never had overnight parking, it did have a short-term lot right in front as well as a dropoff/pickup area. A few months ago (longer?) it was discovered that the parking lot was structurally deficient (but not the building???) and they were going to fix it.

As for a new station, that's way up in limbo. No one's committed to anything, and the Atlantic station, station and multi-modal passenger terminal keep getting tossed around a lot here lately, but it's all a lot of plans, nothing fixed.

 

[afigg]

As for a new station, that's way up in limbo. No one's committed to anything, and the Atlantic station, station and multi-modal passenger terminal keep getting tossed around a lot here lately, but it's all a lot of plans, nothing fixed.

I would describe the plans for the new Atlanta station as having progressed beyond the limbo stage. There is a selected site at 17th Street and Northside which they are offering to developers (proffer webpage), the state selected a developer to put together a plan and proposal for the site, Greyhound is interested in building a bus terminal at the site which helps to boost the prospects for a station, Amtrak will put up $5.9 million towards the station facility. Yes, it is not a done deal by any means, but if the developer can come up with a viable plan for the site with transit oriented mixed use development that will pay for much of the station and bus terminal costs, it can move ahead. Of course, land development deals can spend years and years in the development stage before construction starts. But Amtrak can use the requirement to achieve ADA compliance to push the process along.

 

[John Bobinyec]

Is the proposed site at 17th and Northside on the current route of the Crescent or would it have to be rerouted?

jb

 

[xyzzy]

The proposed site is on the current route of the Crescent. In fact, the proposed site was once covered with industrial trackage because it was formerly the Atlantic Steel mill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Steel The proposed site will also be good for an Atlanta-Savannah train, if one ever happens. However, like the current station, it will not be ideal for a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train. C'est la vie.

 

[RampWidget]

The proposed site is on the current route of the Crescent. In fact, the proposed site was once covered with industrial trackage because it was formerly the Atlantic Steel mill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Steel The proposed site will also be good for an Atlanta-Savannah train, if one ever happens. However, like the current station, it will not be ideal for a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train. C'est la vie.

You're spot-on. At least at that location the backup move from Howell Tower to 17th Street for a Chgo--Atla-Fla train would be a bit shorter than it is to the present station. Plus the move is completely within CTC territory and can be made on signal indication without having to stop to handle any switches.

Edit: clarity

 

[Notelvis]

The new site looks nicely situated....... near the campus of Georgia Tech and across the tracks from what appears to be an IKEA store!

 

[RampWidget]

The new site looks nicely situated....... near the campus of Georgia Tech and across the tracks from what appears to be an IKEA store!

It is. Atlantic Station, which the IKEA abuts, is a mixed-use residential / retail / office development atop what was once an active steel plant (check out the link that xyzzy posted above). It's a short walk /bus /bike ride to the MARTA Arts Center transit station across the 17th Street - I75/I85 overpass.

The whole West Midtown area is sprouting new developments everywhere and, as someone who grew up in ATL, I believe is an extremely desirable place to work / live / shop / board Amtrak!

Edit: clarity

 

[Notelvis]

The new site looks nicely situated....... near the campus of Georgia Tech and across the tracks from what appears to be an IKEA store!

It is. Atlantic Station, which the IKEA abuts, is a mixed-use residential / retail / office development atop what was once an active steel plant (check out the link that xyzzy posted above). It's a short walk /bus /bike ride to the MARTA Arts Center transit station across the 17th Street - I75/I85 overpass.

The whole West Midtown area is sprouting new developments everywhere and, as someone who grew up in ATL, I believe is an extremely desirable place to work / live / shop / board Amtrak!

Edit: clarity

I would really love to see an additional New York-Atlanta frequency each day...... something along the line of a late evening New York departure, overnight to Raleigh, NC, assume the timetable slot currently occupied by the morning Piedmont to Charlotte, and continuing down NS arriving in Atlanta around 3:30pm or so.

 

[afigg]

The proposed site is on the current route of the Crescent. In fact, the proposed site was once covered with industrial trackage because it was formerly the Atlantic Steel mill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Steel The proposed site will also be good for an Atlanta-Savannah train, if one ever happens. However, like the current station, it will not be ideal for a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train. C'est la vie.

For those who have not downloaded the zipped PDF files on the proffer website, the conceptual layout shows the station platform on a side track with a layover track (for storing cars dropped off from the Crescent). Amtrak specs are for a 16 thousand square foot station, a 1200' long platform. and lots of parking. With the platform on a side track, odds are that it would be all or mostly high level. A notice to award a contract to a developer is dated January 28, 2013, so a developer may be under contract by now.

The station should provide room for expanded service. If space is left for a second layover track, it could be used to store a corridor train overnight. The low hanging fruit would be an Atlanta - Raleigh NC corridor service. A new station in Atlanta which does not block NS traffic when a train is in the station, improvements to the Charlotte to Raleigh corridor could make adding a daily train a relatively low cost project - if GA and NC were both willing to fund it. or a NYP/WAS to Altlanta train as it often discussed. An Atlanta to Savannah corridor service will cost a lot more money. A Chicago - Atlanta - Fluoride train won't happen until GA and Atlanta build a intercity regional passenger rail system with Atlant as the hub. That could take a while.

 

[battalion51]

You know it seems like you've got some real potential to partner with VA and NC to take one of the Piedmont/Regional slots and flip that to an ATL-WAS train. If you were to run ATL-CLT-RGH-RVR-WAS you're looking at about a 16 hour run in total. If you do a 7A departure or so at the end points you could achieve 11P arrival times while still giving great additional departure times at the intermediate station stops. You would see CLT at 1P northbound and 5P southbound, RGH at 4P northbound and 2P southbound, RVR at 8P northbound and 10A southbound. Not only would this idea provide ATL with desperately needed additional service, but you would also provide new destinations on a one seat ride.

 

[cpamtfan]

I think this corridor in general needs to be looking at very closely. I agree with you batallion that a train in that time frame would be excellent for the places along there that have lacked daytime options for years. This corridor as well as the Chicago-Washington/Philly/NY need these reverse trains to not only add service, but also open up new options.

 

[xyzzy]

History shows that northward trains from the south terminating at DC have disappointing ridership. In fact, cutting back northward trains to end in DC instead of NY was a favorite "train-off" tactic in the 1960s. If you ride Amtrak 80 these days, you'll see that passengers going to Baltimore and points beyond outnumber the passengers to Northern Virginia and DC. A northbound train that arrives DC at midnight has a connection to NY leaving DC at 3:15 am. Can't sell that.

Besides, NCDOT simply doesn't care about passenger traffic between Atlanta and NC. That's not where the primary demand lies for North Carolinians. The focus for NCDOT is two-fold: intrastate and Charlotte-Raleigh-DC-NY. Given that GDOT and SCDOT have little interest in passenger rail, it ain't gonna happen without help from NCDOT.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

The proposed site is on the current route of the Crescent. In fact, the proposed site was once covered with industrial trackage because it was formerly the Atlantic Steel mill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Steel The proposed site will also be good for an Atlanta-Savannah train, if one ever happens. However, like the current station, it will not be ideal for a Chicago-Atlanta-Florida train. C'est la vie.

For those who have not downloaded the zipped PDF files on the proffer website, the conceptual layout shows the station platform on a side track with a layover track (for storing cars dropped off from the Crescent). Amtrak specs are for a 16 thousand square foot station, a 1200' long platform. and lots of parking. With the platform on a side track, odds are that it would be all or mostly high level. A notice to award a contract to a developer is dated January 28, 2013, so a developer may be under contract by now.

Thanks for sharing that. A few interesting notes on Amtrak's functional and space requirements for the new Atlanta station:

• A first class lounge with 20 seats and 800 square feet.
• A (coach) waiting/ticketing room of 4,210 sqft.
• 1,200' platform.
• 800' canopy.

Based on the Crescent performance implementation plan, the provision of a station siding and new Atlanta station are prerequisites before the Crescent can either be split into 2 trains or can drop the excess cars (most of the demand is between NYP and ATL. ATL to NOL has way too much train for the demand).

The one concern I have with this location is that it's further from the transit network. The 17th/Northside location is served by MARTA route #37, which runs every 40 minutes during the day. The current station at Peachtree/Deering is served by the #110, which runs every 15.

 

[Ryan]

Better transit connectivity would be nice (and I would think that the bus schedules would be reworked to provide better service), but on site rental cars would be even betterer.

 

[MattW]

Atlantic Station operates a free shuttle between the Arts Center station and an intersection close to the proposed site about every 15-30 minutes. Perhaps some kind of deal could be worked out to extend the shuttle to the Amtrak site or at least some kind of pedestrian loading area behind the Ikea store with a pedestrian bridge across the tracks. Given ADA requirements it would probably be simpler to extend the shuttle a quarter mile. No idea who would pay for it, I'd hate for Amtrak to be like the airlines and start tacking on fees everywhere, but maybe an extra $1.50? $2.50 on each ticket sold to Atlanta? Just build it on in maybe.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Better transit connectivity would be nice (and I would think that the bus schedules would be reworked to provide better service), but on site rental cars would be even betterer.

I think you might be less-well acquainted with MARTA than I am.

8 years ago when I lived off of 10th Street, the 37 was one of the buses I could take (it used to take 10th rather than 17th). It ran every 40 minutes back then, too. At that time, the 23* served 17th Street/Atlantic Station every 15 minutes. Now, almost a decade later, there's more development in Atlantic Station, but less transit. I should also note that 17th Street has bus lanes. Bus lanes for a bus that runs every 40 minutes!

MARTA has been perpetually starved for funding by the state (and to some degree, the region), and moving the Amtrak station is not likely to result in more transit service to Atlantic Station/17th Street, despite the fact that the corridor could clearly support much more transit.

*The #23 (and the #10) was replaced by the #110, which now serves Peachtree Street/Road.

 

[Ryan]

Better transit connectivity would be nice (and I would think that the bus schedules would be reworked to provide better service), but on site rental cars would be even betterer.

I think you might be less-well acquainted with MARTA than I am.

Without a doubt.
Silly me for thinking logically, I forget that's not in Georgian's DNA.

So who's more of a soup sandwich, MARTA or WMATA?

 

[Tracktwentynine]

So who's more of a soup sandwich, MARTA or WMATA?

My bus service is better in the Washington suburbs than it was in the inner city in Atlanta. And of course the rail network is much more patronized and extensive in DC. But more expensive, too.

But because of better maintenance practices over the past 20 years or so, MARTA is probably more reliable.

All in all, I'd much rather rely on WMATA for day-to-day transportation than MARTA. Which is not to say WMATA can't improve. There's lots of room for improvement there.

 

[John Bobinyec]

For either Raleigh - Atlanta, or Atlanta - Savannah, or Atlanta - New York service (modifying the Crescent consist at Atlanta), there will need to be some sort of maintenance facility in Atlanta. Is that included in the proposal?

jb

 

[MattW]

I don't see why there would need to be any more "maintenance" than what exists now for Atlanta- Raleigh and New York service. Places like Carbondale, Charlotte, Bakersfield, and other medium-distance termini don't have any more than coach cleaners I think, which work on the train on the layover track.

 

[John Bobinyec]

I don't see why there would need to be any more "maintenance" than what exists now for Atlanta- Raleigh and New York service. Places like Carbondale, Charlotte, Bakersfield, and other medium-distance termini don't have any more than coach cleaners I think, which work on the train on the layover track.

That's true and encouraging, but I was thinking about the following schedules:

Train RGH CLT ATL

73 645A 955A 330P

76 826P 515P 1145A

So for example, train 73 leaving Raleigh on Monday will be at Atlanta for 20 hours or so and won't get back to Raleigh until Tuesday evening. Operating personnel might want to be able to do a little more than coach cleaning - on occasion.

jb

 

[xyzzy]

For either Raleigh - Atlanta, or Atlanta - Savannah, or Atlanta - New York service (modifying the Crescent consist at Atlanta), there will need to be some sort of maintenance facility in Atlanta. Is that included in the proposal?

Not that I've heard. Southern had an excellent maintenance facility for passenger cars near Georgia Tech and the Coca-Cola HQ. Long gone now.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Like the new station in Miami, and the one in Minneapolis it seem they are build the station for yesterday trains, with little or no room for today trains (new cars ordered), and no cares about the trains of tomorrow.

.

 

[TVRM610]

Like the new station in Miami, and the one in Minneapolis it seem they are build the station for yesterday trains, with little or no room for today trains (new cars ordered), and no cares about the trains of tomorrow.

.

What do you mean by that? The whole purpose of the new Atlanta station is to enable future plans. I'm 100% for the new Atlanta station.