Genesis operating costs

[zephyr17]

Would someone please share the longest Amtrak diesel segment without refueling?

Not at all sure if it is the longest, but I know the SWC fuels at Argentine Yard in Kansas City and I think it fuels at Albuquerque.

 

[MetraUPWest]

Glad I could help, I'm just sorry I didn't see this thread a little sooner.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Nice, MetraUPWest! Where'd you get those stats?

If the power is so greatly reduced by HEP, why don't Amtrak add a separate steam generator or HEP car?

How fast does a P42DC go at each notch?

 

[George Harris]

Swadian: Some of this stuff I will be needing to deal with in a few days. At that point, I will share what I can.

As to the speed in each notch: What you get is a certain amount of power in each notch. The speed depends upon grades, train weight, nature of cars, etc. The full rated horsepower is what you get in notch 8. There are a number of issues that go into the mix.

You work out speed through a combination of tractive effort and train resistance. TE is very straight forward given power and speed. Train resistance can be quite complex to figure out, particularly when dealing with feight. Usually it is regarded as having three components: A constant value which is generally regarded as related to bearing friction. A componenet that is directly proportional with speed, generally relating to wheel to rail and track issues. Third, a component proportional to the square of speed, or speed times speeds, for the mathematically disinclined, which is generally thought to be air resistance. It gets very complex, as it relates to front end factors, rear end factors, side friction, and also affected by wind speed and direction. Then there is grade resistance and curve resistance.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Thanks George Harris! Despite your double post, I find your information very useful and interesting.

 

[MetraUPWest]

I got the P42 stats from the P42 operating manual. I would think it would be too costly to maintain a set of HEP cars, and if the car went down you'd lose HEP. By having HEP supplied by the locomotive if the HEP system in one unit fails you can just have a different unit supply HEP to the train (usually- there are P42s out there with HEP systems that are broken- but that's another story)

As far as the horsepower hit goes, only one unit can supply HEP to a train at a time, so while one operates with less horsepower available, any other units are free to run at maximum horsepower. Some units have seperate diesel generators to make HEP, so the main engine can make full horsepower for traction (such as the F59 and MP36-3C), and others have an inverter that regulates the HEP frequency (P32AC-DM "dual mode" Genesis and Metra's MP36-3S) so the locomotive is free to run at any rpm, my guess is whatever Amtrak buys to replace the P40s and P42s will have either inverter or diesel genset HEP, but only time will tell.

Just in case you were curious, producing the P42's max output of 800kW of HEP requires 1072 horsepower, as it takes 1 horsepower to make .746kW of HEP.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I got the P42 stats from the P42 operating manual. I would think it would be too costly to maintain a set of HEP cars, and if the car went down you'd lose HEP. By having HEP supplied by the locomotive if the HEP system in one unit fails you can just have a different unit supply HEP to the train (usually- there are P42s out there with HEP systems that are broken- but that's another story)

As far as the horsepower hit goes, only one unit can supply HEP to a train at a time, so while one operates with less horsepower available, any other units are free to run at maximum horsepower. Some units have seperate diesel generators to make HEP, so the main engine can make full horsepower for traction (such as the F59 and MP36-3C), and others have an inverter that regulates the HEP frequency (P32AC-DM "dual mode" Genesis and Metra's MP36-3S) so the locomotive is free to run at any rpm, my guess is whatever Amtrak buys to replace the P40s and P42s will have either inverter or diesel genset HEP, but only time will tell.

Just in case you were curious, producing the P42's max output of 800kW of HEP requires 1072 horsepower, as it takes 1 horsepower to make .746kW of HEP.

Operating manual?! Are you an engineer or something?

 

[MetraUPWest]

I'm an engineer for UP, I have manuals for almost every modern diesel locomotive, including all diesel Amtrak power. I'll try to find any information you need, just let me know.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

I'm an engineer for UP, I have manuals for almost every modern diesel locomotive, including all diesel Amtrak power. I'll try to find any information you need, just let me know.

just a little correction todays 4 hep connectors have a combined HEP capacity of 1000 Kw (1Mw) as is permissable on HHP-8, ALP46 and on future ACS-64

4 x 3phase 4/0 gauge

 

[MetraUPWest]

Thanks Dutch. You're right, my mistake! Amtrak HEP cables support just under 1200 kW (1.2mW) of 480 Volt 3 phase AC power.