Getting a TAP card

[BCL]

I posted something about this on a planning post on the main forum, but I was thinking maybe I get more responses here. We're going on a public transportation trip in a week or two (time is flexible, but it will be on a weekend. It's going to be one day around LA and another around Anaheim. However, it's not that clear how I'm going to be able to do this. We were thinking the first day we take the Pacific Surfliner into Anaheim and then use Anaheim Resort Transportation to get around, then head for LA by Metro route 460, whether it's the first day or early in the morning the second day.

I called Metro's customer service phone number. I got a response that #460 takes cash fares, but it's supposed to include a surcharge. If I could get a day pass, express buses like #460 are included without a surcharge. The agent also said that they could sell TAP cards on the bus, but I can't find any documentation on that.

If we went into LA first, it would be easy to just get TAP cards, and we haven't finalized the plans yet. But if we can only pay cash fares, that will be an additional $2.50 each ($1.75 fare plus 75 cent express surcharge) and we'll still need to buy TAP cards and day passes.

I also downloaded the TAP app which has real time schedule Information, and should avoid the $2 charge for a card if added to something like Apple Wallet. However, their requirements don't include our devices, so we'll need physical cards.

It did occur to me that I might ask a bus driver to let us ride with the promise that we buy the cards and day passes.

 

[joelkfla]

Looks like there's about a 25-minute stop at LA Union. Perhaps you could hop off and get cards at the Metro TVM.
https://www.unionstationla.com/user/themes/unionstation/assets/pdf/Union-Station-Map.pdf

 

[BCL]

Looks like there's about a 25-minute stop at LA Union. Perhaps you could hop off and get cards at the Metro TVM.
https://www.unionstationla.com/user/themes/unionstation/assets/pdf/Union-Station-Map.pdf

Thanks - sounds like that might work. I suppose I'd have to explain that to a conductor. Possibly take the seat check and then use it to reboard. I was planning on booking with points EMY-SBA-ANA (bus-train), and then taking a later (unreserved) Pacific Surfliner so we could spend a couple of hours in Santa Barbara for breakfast. The trip on points costs the same whether it's EMY-LAX or EMY to Fullerton or Anaheim. So I would be trying to explain that if we're there later, but of course the seat check would be ideal - especially if they're the ones from portable printers that conductors can print with the train number/date.

I'll ask about getting off at LAUS on the main forum. Might not work if the train is late though. Or I could just get off in LA and explore a bit before heading to OC by bus, although that might not help with timing. If it takes too long and we miss the train, I suppose that my planning includes alternate things to do and we can improvise. I should probably just book EMY-ANA both ways just in case (doesn't cost more).

But I'm feeling a little better about it since bus #460 takes cash fares. I was worried that I'd be stuck in a chicken or egg dilemma since LA's Metro system has switched to transit cards, and they have one part of their system in Orange County where it can't be purchased by machine or at a store.

I think the TAP card on the phone is a good idea (especially avoiding paying the card cost), but that requires NFC which isn't compatible with my iPhone 7.

Not sure this is specifically a commuter rail topic. I originally posted it on Non-Rail before it was moved. However, it did occur to me that LA's Metro system doesn't fit into a neat category because it's a combination of buses and light rail.

 

[BCL]

Planning on making this trip, but the big issue would be getting the interagency TAP fare card, since that's the primary way of using public transportation in LA county. We may be taking Metro initially just to ride from Orange County to LA, but then there I heard from a call with a Metro customer service agent that one bus (460 to/from Orange County) sells them but I can't seem to confirm from another source. We have multiple itineraries, so there's always flexibility.

However, in the commuter/light rail forum someone suggested that there's about a 25 min break at LAUS (southbound - northbound seems to be about 16 min) where it might be possible to run out and get the cards at one of their vending machines, if it's not late. I suppose I could mention this to a conductor first, and then take a seat check with me. I'll still have the ticket (printed and on my device) but I also plan on taking a later Surfliner to spend a couple of hours in Santa Barbara.

I also wasn't sure if they might also sell these in the cafe car. I know they have sold a variety of different transit passes/tickets before.

I looked at some video, and it appears that Amtrak is usually on the east tracks. Union Station East has some sort of vending machines, but they appear to be for Metrolink. So I would need to go down to the Metro Red/Purple Line station or to the Metro Gold/L line stop to get a TAP card and add the day pass and some stored value? It did occur to me that I could order by mail, but they might not arrive on time for the trip.



This one goes down into the Red/Purple line station where there's a row of TAP vending machines.



This one shows the TAP vending machine being used on the way to the Metro Gold/L platform, and that seems to be along the row of train platforms.



Not sure what would be the most convenient to access. It would really suck if they were all being used with long lines.

 

[joelkfla]

Thanks - sounds like that might work. I suppose I'd have to explain that to a conductor. Possibly take the seat check and then use it to reboard. I was planning on booking with points EMY-SBA-ANA (bus-train), and then taking a later (unreserved) Pacific Surfliner so we could spend a couple of hours in Santa Barbara for breakfast. The trip on points costs the same whether it's EMY-LAX or EMY to Fullerton or Anaheim. So I would be trying to explain that if we're there later, but of course the seat check would be ideal - especially if they're the ones from portable printers that conductors can print with the train number/date.

I'll ask about getting off at LAUS on the main forum. Might not work if the train is late though. Or I could just get off in LA and explore a bit before heading to OC by bus, although that might not help with timing. If it takes too long and we miss the train, I suppose that my planning includes alternate things to do and we can improvise. I should probably just book EMY-ANA both ways just in case (doesn't cost more).

But I'm feeling a little better about it since bus #460 takes cash fares. I was worried that I'd be stuck in a chicken or egg dilemma since LA's Metro system has switched to transit cards, and they have one part of their system in Orange County where it can't be purchased by machine or at a store.

I think the TAP card on the phone is a good idea (especially avoiding paying the card cost), but that requires NFC which isn't compatible with my iPhone 7.

Not sure this is specifically a commuter rail topic. I originally posted it on Non-Rail before it was moved. However, it did occur to me that LA's Metro system doesn't fit into a neat category because it's a combination of buses and light rail.

Definitely check with the conductor, but I would also print your e-ticket and take it with you when you get off, to show to the gate attendant. I don't know about LAUS, but at some stations, if you get off you have to wait for the boarding call to get back on.

I assume you're taking the overnight bus. You could also book a multi-city ticket with the first segment EMY-LAX, and the 2nd segment LAX to ANA on the Surfliner the next day, either on the same train or the one that leaves an hour later. I tried it and the Value fare is the same.

 

[BCL]

Definitely check with the conductor, but I would also print your e-ticket and take it with you when you get off, to show to the gate attendant. I don't know about LAUS, but at some stations, if you get off you have to wait for the boarding call to get back on.

I assume you're taking the overnight bus. You could also book a multi-city ticket with the first segment EMY-LAX, and the 2nd segment LAX to ANA on the Surfliner the next day, either on the same train or the one that leaves an hour later. I tried it and the Value fare is the same.

Yeah - taking the overnight bus to Santa Barbara. And I usually have my eTicket everywhere with plenty of backups, including the standard printout, the Amtrak app, Apple Wallet, and even printed tickets at the station. We're booking with AGR points, so multi-city is out. I kept on hearing that all possible bookings (including multi-city) could be made with points, but apparently not yet. We could book partially with cash. However, right now it seems best if we spend day one in Anaheim and then LA on day two. It just works better for all the stuff we're looking to do, with more daylight time in LA and more evening time in Anaheim.

But I did try seeing how much LAX-ANA is, and for an adult with child it's $20.80 (full price is $24.00) using the V712 Disneyland discount code. LA Metro #460 is just $2.50 per passenger ($5 total since there's no child fare without a participating local school sponsoring it) and could pick up/drop off at specific points we want such as Buena Park (cheaper hotels) or Disneyland. And I was scared about how to get around Anaheim/Buena Park, but the ART bus seems to have that hybrid on-demand ride system. But I could image spending a few hours at Downtown Disney.

https://www.amtrak.com/disneyland-discounthttps://www.pacificsurfliner.com/offers/promotions/save-on-disneyland/
I we booked multi-city, I think there's a little bit more flexibility since there are more trains that are only LAX to San Diego.

The other thing when I was thinking of it was that they have those TAP vending machines at different parts of Union Station. Wasn't sure if it would faster with the L/Gold line platform machines or going down to the Red/Purple. And I'm thinking there are probably more at Union Station because of all the buses where TAP is the primary means of fare payment.

 

[rickycourtney]

I would think the best bet would be at the machines at entrance to the L (Gold) Line at tracks 1/2.

The TVMs for the B/D Lines are on the underground mezzanine.

However, I do think they sell the cards onboard most buses.

 

[BCL]

I would think the best bet would be at the machines at entrance to the L (Gold) Line at tracks 1/2.

The TVMs for the B/D Lines are on the underground mezzanine.

However, I do think they sell the cards onboard most buses.

I had a hard time figuring that out. I didn't see this earlier, although on my call to Metro I was told that they sell the cards. Not sure why I didn't notice this earlier.

https://www.taptogo.net/TAPPurchase​

At a bus farebox​

Reload fare onboard Metro and select TAP agency buses. Check your local agency for details. Fare is ready to use immediately.​

It is a bit confusing since they only mention reloading and not buying a new card. But if they say they sell them on buses I think we would be OK.

I'm used to this sort of thing since I've had Clipper in the San Francisco Bay Area since about 2013. But there being local made it easier to buy the cards. None of our systems with buses sell them onboard, but they all accept cash fares, albeit with a surcharge.

 

[rickycourtney]

I had a hard time figuring that out. I didn't see this earlier, although on my call to Metro I was told that they sell the cards. Not sure why I didn't notice this earlier.

https://www.taptogo.net/TAPPurchase​

At a bus farebox​

Reload fare onboard Metro and select TAP agency buses. Check your local agency for details. Fare is ready to use immediately.​

It is a bit confusing since they only mention reloading and not buying a new card. But if they say they sell them on buses I think we would be OK.

I'm used to this sort of thing since I've had Clipper in the San Francisco Bay Area since about 2013. But there being local made it easier to buy the cards. None of our systems with buses sell them onboard, but they all accept cash fares, albeit with a surcharge.

Another option… like Clipper… TAP is available in digital form on iPhone.

 

[BCL]

Another option… like Clipper… TAP is available in digital form on iPhone.

Thought about it. Would save $2 for each card and allow me to load everything in advance. However, I have an iPhone 7 and my kid has an iPhone 6 Plus. I've been putting off getting new phones. Neither have the required NFC capability to use in place of a fare card.

Still - physical cards might make for a nice set of souvenirs to take home.

 

[Rover]

The Dallas Dart Tap card I use for seniors gives me 1/2 price on fares, and caps out at the daily day pass fare, no matter how many rides I use in one day. So I think that tap cards, combined with my Dart phone app, are great.

 

[BCL]

The Dallas Dart Tap card I use for seniors gives me 1/2 price on fares, and caps out at the daily day pass fare, no matter how many rides I use in one day. So I think that tap cards, combined with my Dart phone app, are great.

Yeah - I'm kind of trying to figure out how I might have been able to get a child card. It doesn't seem easy other than a child under certain ages are free where a fare is required. Without it or some sort of child fare (or free transit) program attached to local schools, there doesn't appear to be any other child fares for the Los Angeles and Orange County areas. Except maybe Metrolink (heavy rail) which doesn't appear to have integrated into the TAP program.

https://www.metro.net/riding/fares/students-k-12/gopass/
There are some oddball things with our own Clipper Card system in the San Francisco Bay Area. You mentioned daily pass caps, but ours is really odd in that. There's one agency (Santa Clara County VTA) that has a combination of light rail and buses, but at least the last time I rode it, they didn't integrate the two. I was familiar with San Francisco MUNI's system where one was supposed to tag on and continue to tag on during transfers, where one could continue to do so for 90 minutes from the first tag on before a new fare was charged. But I tried that once on VTA light rail and the second time it charged me a new fare. I called to ask about it, and their procedure is to only tag on once and wait until the next. Apparently tagging on with their light rail doesn't include transfers to their buses. However, one can buy a day pass at one of their machines (or on a bus) that's good for their entire system. Maybe there's a way to get the day pass on Clipper. I was told by someone that just riding their buses will eventually max out at the day pass rate.

BART is the only system where using the fare card is mandatory. There's kind of an exception for someone with the older "paper" tickets, although there's a surcharge for that. But that's a station based system where every station sells the cards. Before, they didn't sell cards at stations, but one could add a stored value.

I got my child a youth Clipper card about 8 years ago. It was
actually back when my kid was usually free to travel with me as an adult, but I just wanted to be prepared in the future. It was free at a time when adult cards cost $3 (mine was back when it was free as long as one added at least $5 in stored value). I just needed proof of age and they said that it would automatically figure out child fares based on DOB programmed into the card/system.

I'm leaning towards quickly getting cards at LA Union Station if a conductor says it's OK to leave the train and come back. Seems almost like the quick breaks on LD trains where they say "don't wander too far".

 

[Asher]

Another option… like Clipper… TAP is available in digital form on iPhone.

How does using a digital tap card work.

 

[jis]

How does using a digital tap card work.

You just tap the phone, or for me more preferably my Apple Watch on the NFC card reader. That is how I travel on the New York Subway these days.

You can select a specific card in you electronic wallet in the phone to be the Express Transit card which gets used for such taps thus avoiding the need to explicitly select a card before each tap.

I am not sure if TAP works this way too, but if it does not it is a bit outdated.

 

[BCL]

How does using a digital tap card work.

They have an app that can enable a "virtual card". It uses the near-field communications feature of a mobile device where holding the device close to a reader works similarly to the wireless communications inside a fare card. With an iPhone I think it has to be added to the "Apple Wallet" feature that includes tickets, passes, loyalty cards, etc. I have an iPhone 7 which is in an aluminum case, so that could be why NFC doesn't work. The iPhone 8 and later models have a glass case which enables things like wireless charging and NFC. However, I have seen some indication that the iPhone 7 has some NFC features, but in any case I've downloaded some apps that do that, and they clearly state it requires an iPhone 8 or newer, or certain Android devices.

This photo is clearly showing an iPhone and Apple Wallet. I see Apple Cash at the bottom.

 

[Asher]

Thank you for mentioning the app and the info. I’m getting the App.

 

[BCL]

You just tap the phone, or for me more preferably my Apple Watch on the NFC card reader. That is how I travel on the New York Subway these days.

You can select a specific card in you electronic wallet in the phone to be the Express Transit card which gets used for such taps thus avoiding the need to explicitly select a card before each tap.

I am not sure if TAP works this way too, but if it does not it is a bit outdated.

They've made this system in Los Angeles County somewhat complicated. I think the worst part is that all cards have a 10 year expiration, and some of the earliest ones have already expired. Apparently the value can be transferred, but a new card will need to be purchased unless one goes with the virtual card instead.

https://laist.com/news/did-you-know-your-metro-tap-card-ex
Some of the newer ones are a little different in that they have a barcode on the front, which enables the value to be added at retailers that don't want to invest in the NFC tagging equipment. I think what it does is communicate to the server, which then sends the data to the card the first time it's tagged on their NFC equipment that's connected to the server.

But on a mobile device with NFC, it should be pretty seamless. It does sound as if they use Apple Wallet (or the equivalent for Android) so that different virtual cards can be selected. I think I could do that for my kid where we have separate cards on the same device.

 

[BCL]

I'm wondering what all the quirks are with this system. I remember my first experience with Clipper in the San Francisco Bay Area was when the easiest place to get one was local Walgreen's stores where the card was free but it required a minimum $5 stored value. This was somewhat of a debacle because these cards are allowed to "go negative" (supposedly to keep passengers from being stranded) where the user then is supposed to pay that back. Some people figured out how much they could go negative and then tossed the card without paying it back. I think they stopped that a while ago, but they still charge $3 for the card.

Of course the BART system here wanted to go away from the traditional magnetic strip ticket system since there were some who would manage to cheat the system with strip writers or possibly doing things like cutting up strips (after the system changed to serialized tickets). A lot of tourists were scammed into buying "discount" tickets from scammers claiming they couldn't use their tickets, demonstrated that they had value (by inserting into the ticket vending machine), but a couple of hours later the tickets failed some check and were unusable.

 

[BCL]

I also noticed that some of earlier videos only showed specific amounts (equivalent to one/two Metro trips, $5/$10/$20/$50/etc.) that could be added to the stored value, but that they added an "other" selection later.

 

[trainman74]

You just tap the phone, or for me more preferably my Apple Watch on the NFC card reader. That is how I travel on the New York Subway these days.

You can select a specific card in you electronic wallet in the phone to be the Express Transit card which gets used for such taps thus avoiding the need to explicitly select a card before each tap.

I am not sure if TAP works this way too, but if it does not it is a bit outdated.

I can confirm that Express Transit mode works with L.A.'s TAP cards.

 

[Rover]

So, I've had the Dallas Dart Go Pass app on my phone for a number of years. I loaded money to it without using a credit card, which I didn't want Dart to have. I went to a Dollar General Store and paid cash to them, and the money was added to my Dart account.

Back then, when using the rail, I would pull up the Dart app and pay for a Day Pass from the balance I had. Then, before I left home to go to the Dart rail station, I activated that Day Pass on my phone. I could then show the activated status to anyone from Dart that asked.

Then, this year, I went downtown and got my Dart Senior tap card, they took my picture, and produced my tap card with that picture of me on the card. They said to go into my Dart app on my phone, and link my Senior tap card to the app. I did that, but, to my surprise, the money I had left from loading to the app at Dollar General was not showing in my tap card "balance."

That may be something that Dart integrates at a later date. But for now, tap card users can load money to their tap card by going, not to Dollar General, but to 7-11.

I do not use my phone now to buy a ride on the train at the station. Instead, I tap the tap card to register that ride. Then each time I board a train or bus, I tap to get on. In the case of the bus, I tap as I step onto the bus. But for Dart rail, you tap at the Dart rail station at a tap card kiosk.

 

[BCL]

I mentioned the barcode ones. They're basically set up like how gift cards can be purchased at supermarkets or discount stores, since they all can read them with common checkout scanners and then integrate into a system that communicates with their servers to add value. However, there's a minimum initial load of $5 of stored value. With the regular one there theoretically shouldn't be a minimum load other than loading something.

https://www.taptogo.net/articles/en_US/Website_content/Retail-TAP-Card

 

[BCL]

Looks like there's about a 25-minute stop at LA Union. Perhaps you could hop off and get cards at the Metro TVM.
https://www.unionstationla.com/user/themes/unionstation/assets/pdf/Union-Station-Map.pdf

On #774 now although my ticket says #770. When I mentioned it to the station agent, he said one problem could be that some conductors might mass lift every ticket scheduled for that train/station. But I still see the ticket on my app so I don’t think it was lifted for train #770.

The conductor on 774 is solo so he’s made announcements that he’s electronically lifting all tickets. Not sure how that works if there’s a no show looking to use an unreserved ticket on a later train, since they’re theoretically good for up to a year except for certain holiday periods. He did reach me but when I mentioned the plan to hop off at LAUS and back on he said there were no guarantees that there would be enough time as we were running late. But he didn’t scan our ticket and said he might come back to see what we wanted to do later. Maybe just get off and stay off at LAUS. I’m getting status reports that we will be making up time but I’ll see if it’s enough time to risk it.

 

[BCL]

On #774 now although my ticket says #770. When I mentioned it to the station agent, he said one problem could be that some conductors might mass lift every ticket scheduled for that train/station. But I still see the ticket on my app so I don’t think it was lifted for train #770.

The conductor on 774 is solo so he’s made announcements that he’s electronically lifting all tickets. Not sure how that works if there’s a no show looking to use an unreserved ticket on a later train, since they’re theoretically good for up to a year except for certain holiday periods. He did reach me but when I mentioned the plan to hop off at LAUS and back on he said there were no guarantees that there would be enough time as we were running late. But he didn’t scan our ticket and said he might come back to see what we wanted to do later. Maybe just get off and stay off at LAUS. I’m getting status reports that we will be making up time but I’ll see if it’s enough time to risk it.

It arrived way late and I decided not to risk it. There was only about 10 minutes since they added a car but didn’t open the doors until after it was connected. I’ll just have to see if I can actually buy the card on the bus as I was told could be done.

 

[BCL]

Well - made it to the bus, only the driver said he’s out of TAP cards but just waved us onto the bus. I promised that I would get cards and day passes when we get to LA, which would have been valid for this bus. I guess he could have made us pay the cash fare.