Greyhound seats and fleet questions

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
As for the seating....The last bus I saw with a tourguide seat was a GLC DL3, back in the 90's....I agree, GL would remove a tourguide seat, and even if they didn't, they would never allow a revenue passenger to sit there, perhaps a 'cushioning' driver, but probably not that either....

As I mentioned previously, the Van Hool does have a room advantage, since the cabin extends to the rear wall of the coach, giving almost the equivalent space of an extra row, where the Prevost and MCI have engine accessories....
 
All right, can I just get to Atlanta already? Still, I'll get there a little faster than if I'd been able to consent to a coach seat on 19... Later today. At least I'm currently on my first known H3-45? "Meh" comes to mind but I'm a bit sleep deprived and cranky right now. And between this being (only from my perspective) a Richmond bound bus and my seatmate not being my traveling companion, I'll keep it at that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
You're riding a H3-45? You are riding a H3-45 on Greyhound?!

I told you should've brought eye shades, that way you don't get as cranky off fatigue because you don't have as much fatigue.

My best way of taking long distances by Greyhound is to not ride overnight at all and sleep in a hotel. Like, for example, sleep in Richmond. Are you really on Richmond-bound bus out of Atlanta heading to Saint Louis? I'm really confused between this and the H3-45 reference.

I'm assuming you're on a X3-45 which looks like the H3-45 but is not as tall. Greyhound's X3-45 have horrible new seating which would explain any discomfort you may have.

They are close in appearance....the newer H3 headlight area looks even more like the TX than that Brewster does....

The dashboards are not that alike...the Prevost does have a Volvo truck dashboard.

One thing that I strongly dislike about our CO2045's (similar display to the TX), is that to see the air pressure, you must press a button, and then it only displays for a few seconds.

I am surprised that the DOT allows that setup. The analog dials on the Prevost (and every other bus I have ever driven, are always visible....

The TX may be a copy of the H3, but I'll bet it doesn't ride as well....
You pay less you get less. TX45 isn't a H3-45 and it isn't the most luxurious bus in the world. Surprisingly the EL3 was so much worse than the H3-45, they cost about the same back in the day, I believe.

As for the seating....The last bus I saw with a tourguide seat was a GLC DL3, back in the 90's....I agree, GL would remove a tourguide seat, and even if they didn't, they would never allow a revenue passenger to sit there, perhaps a 'cushioning' driver, but probably not that either....

As I mentioned previously, the Van Hool does have a room advantage, since the cabin extends to the rear wall of the coach, giving almost the equivalent space of an extra row, where the Prevost and MCI have engine accessories....
That's why maybe with that room advantage they wouldn't take out a row of seats, but then again, that would cause overbooking in case a Van Hool broke down and got swapped out with a MCI or Prevost. But still, how did Prevost get 56 seats in their H3-45 without having a middle seat? The H3-45 is 45' flat while the D4505 is 45'5" and the J4500 is about 45'9" I believe.

Edit: Found a pic of the old H3-45 dashboard: http://www.barraclou.com/bus/bourgeois/bourgeois03050_driver.jpg.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm. Might have mixed things up a bit. I will come back to this when I have more time but I will in the meantime say I know darn well I had at least of that type for sure.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
Wait a second, Greyhound leased a few TX45's right? What if they also leased a few H3-45's for testing considering they are the TX45's competitor?

:huh:

Edit: Maybe it was just a X3-45 with sagging seats. If you sat down and couldn't make yourself comfortable in any position, that is a sign of Greyhound's horrible new seats. But man, is the Blue G so much better! All that legroom and padding makes it great for sleeping along with the rebuilt DL3. Haven't sat in regular DL3 seating for a long time so can't speak for legroom. All my DL3 rides in 2013 and 2014 were in front seats which have weird legroom due to the "tiering".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All right, can I just get to Atlanta already? Still, I'll get there a little faster than if I'd been able to consent to a coach seat on 19... Later today. At least I'm currently on my first known H3-45? "Meh" comes to mind but I'm a bit sleep deprived and cranky right now. And between this being (only from my perspective) a Richmond bound bus and my seatmate not being my traveling companion, I'll keep it at that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
You're riding a H3-45? You are riding a H3-45 on Greyhound?!

I told you should've brought eye shades, that way you don't get as cranky off fatigue because you don't have as much fatigue.

My best way of taking long distances by Greyhound is to not ride overnight at all and sleep in a hotel. Like, for example, sleep in Richmond. Are you really on Richmond-bound bus out of Atlanta heading to Saint Louis? I'm really confused between this and the H3-45 reference.

I'm assuming you're on a X3-45 which looks like the H3-45 but is not as tall. Greyhound's X3-45 have horrible new seating which would explain any discomfort you may have.

They are close in appearance....the newer H3 headlight area looks even more like the TX than that Brewster does....

The dashboards are not that alike...the Prevost does have a Volvo truck dashboard.

One thing that I strongly dislike about our CO2045's (similar display to the TX), is that to see the air pressure, you must press a button, and then it only displays for a few seconds.

I am surprised that the DOT allows that setup. The analog dials on the Prevost (and every other bus I have ever driven, are always visible....

The TX may be a copy of the H3, but I'll bet it doesn't ride as well....
You pay less you get less. TX45 isn't a H3-45 and it isn't the most luxurious bus in the world. Surprisingly the EL3 was so much worse than the H3-45, they cost about the same back in the day, I believe.

As for the seating....The last bus I saw with a tourguide seat was a GLC DL3, back in the 90's....I agree, GL would remove a tourguide seat, and even if they didn't, they would never allow a revenue passenger to sit there, perhaps a 'cushioning' driver, but probably not that either....

As I mentioned previously, the Van Hool does have a room advantage, since the cabin extends to the rear wall of the coach, giving almost the equivalent space of an extra row, where the Prevost and MCI have engine accessories....
That's why maybe with that room advantage they wouldn't take out a row of seats, but then again, that would cause overbooking in case a Van Hool broke down and got swapped out with a MCI or Prevost. But still, how did Prevost get 56 seats in their H3-45 without having a middle seat? The H3-45 is 45' flat while the D4505 is 45'5" and the J4500 is about 45'9" I believe.

Edit: Found a pic of the old H3-45 dashboard: http://www.barraclou.com/bus/bourgeois/bourgeois03050_driver.jpg.
That photo is of the oldest style dash in the early H3-45, as well as the H3-40, and the H5-60....

The H's restroom is laid out "sideways", so there is never a "three seat" back row. Standard seating is 56. Our buses remove a row, yielding 52 seats with extra legroom. The X3's as well as our XLII's have conventional restrooms, so there is space for an optional "three seater" in the rear. Normal capacity is 55. We remove a row yielding 51 seats with extra legroom. GL has done that, and opted for only a two seat rear seat, yielding 50 seats with extra legroom.

Our Van Hools standard layout is 57 seats. We removed a row in some, yielding 53 seats with extra legroom. Our latest only have a two seater in the rear, so only have 52 seats, matching our Prevost H's....
 
How was the old dashboard in the H3-45? Seems really "square" to me. I wonder what the H3-45 was originally designed as, I think it was originally called Prevost High-Capacity Coach or something like that? So maybe it was originally designed for high capacity rather than luxury?

I don't remember using the restroom in a H, I haven't taken any significant rides in it AFAIK, or maybe I have I just don't remember. How exactly is the lavatory laid out? Being sideways, does it take the full width of the coach? Or does it only take 3/5 width allowing a seat pair snuck in to the left side?

I was thinking about how they got 56 seats in that thing and some units have 58 seats. I wonder if that was from reduced legroom or a design element? If it had a full-width lavatory, the seating should have been reduced, not increased, right? And do the rows match up across the aisle or are they staggered like in the X3-45 and most others coaches (D4505, 102DL3, G4500, etc)?
 
That photo in the link that you provided, shows the old style dash. It has been considerably improved in many ways over the years, just as the ones in the MCI's have.

There are good and bad features in each design....the newest is very nice overall, but personally I hate the drink cupholder in the slide out drawer....much prefer the MCI's and Van Hool's that have the well type cupholder by the window.....

I believe the 'H' designation is for high level. An interesting tidbit, is that many of those Marathon luxury motorhomes utilize the X -series to modify, but have a raised roof, making them overall as tall is the H....I believe the floor level is not raised...only the roof, so the 'basement' doesn't gain any room, just the interior. These 'entertainer' coaches have enough interior height to allow triple high bunk beds....

They also will make a raised roof H, for that purpose. Put a satellite dish-dome on top, and you have some serious clearance issues....

The H restroom is actully smaller than the one in the X series, and it does take up 3/5 of the width, allowing two seats on the driver's side. And since it doesn't extend forward nearly as far as the conventional 'fore/aft' layout, it allows more seating space on the right side. Some operators will crowd in an extra two seats....and some will even crowd in an extra four seats. yielding either 58 or 60 total.....

Our newest H's seem to have lost even more space in the rear for equipment use, as the restroom bulkhead seems to go all the way across the back, but the inside of the restroom is the same size as the older ones...so the driver's side rows have to crowd in a bit more. I'll have to try to find out why that is. What are they using that space for....

As to whether the rows match up....I don't believe they do, but it's a good question....I'll have to take another look at that, next week....
 
Yeah, a raised-roof H3-45 seems really tall: https://www.flickr.com/photos/millenniumluxurycoaches/8550783279.

I see what you mean about the restroom bulkhead: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crown426/6094467753.

With that large of a bulkhead they should have made a full-width lavatory.

I've heard about some H3-45's with 58 seating but not with 60 seating. Is the H3-45 crowded with 56 seating? I thought as a top-of-the-line coach it should have had at least as much legroom as the X3-45 but you said they like crowd seats in there so it must be cramped. I've ridden a few but never for more than a hour, unless that tour I took over ten years ago was a H3-45 which I can't remember.
 
There really is no need to make the restroom full width....about the only use would be if they put in a sink with running water, on the opposite end from the toilet. But those are too problematic on a line bus, especially in frigid climates. The hand sanitizer is sufficient for most....

Some of our late model H's (I forgot the exact year(s) offhand), have a small compartment inside the restroom in that area to hold supply's like toilet paper rolls, and sanitizer refills. The newest don't for some reason. And that compartment takes up only a tiny bit of the space in the area.

The standard 56 seats is not bad in the earlier model's with the older seating. But it does get tight in the newer series, even the ones with a row removed (52 seats) are lacking in 'shin room' due to the seat design. We remove a row because a lot of our travel is on overnight schedules as in New York - Toronto. Our commuter's riding between Kingston, New Paltz, and New York, while appreciating the extra legroom, don't "need" it for their 90 to 125 minute ride. As for why some companies cram in an extra pair or two....certain chartering groups demand it....the bigger the better, especially for senior citizens and college kids, where the more they can carry, the less it costs each of them to pay their share of the charter.

I have seen an MCI DL3 with 61 seats crammed in with a restroom(!), by a small charter company....they kept that coach very busy......
 
Today I saw an All-West H3-45 by the Greyhound Terminal. Really, in person, it doesn't look very welcoming. The driver had opened the engine hatch but I didn't get a shot off in time. The engine was blackened even those the coach wasn't very old, it had the new headlights and the big PREVOST lettering on the rear. The driver looked like an ex-con, too.

Today the arrival from Denver was Blue G #7151 with a huge "100 YEARS" badge and the driver was wearing a red Greyhound Express shirt, although the run from Denver isn't an Express. Station was emptied after the always-popular 8309 to San Francisco departed with D4505 #86516. Also saw White G #7260 with a severe tilt to the left, apparently waiting to get scrapped.

Three other D4505's in addition to that departure 8309.

Really wish my bus from Denver had been a Blue G isn't of that painful X3-45 with sagging seats. No smooth ride compensates for physical pain. No X3-45 or 102DL3 to be seen today.
 
Believe it or not, I didn't forget about this thread, I just wanted to wait till I was at a computer... How about I just give the bus numbers and you let me know what they are? Heh. I blame any errors in my last post on a mostly a combo of sleep deprivation and "I just wanna get to Atlanta already", with a touch of likely copy/paste fail.

Washington D.C., to Richmond, Virginia... the best picture I have is quite blurry, but I seem to be seeing 86170 for a bus number in it. While I didn't plan on getting any sleep on this segment, I sure don't remember much of the run, either. :)

Richmond, Virginia to Knoxville, Tennessee... the pictures I have give me 86055, my confirmed X3-45 of the run. It gets an overwhelming "meh" from me, alleviated somewhat by having a seatmate I could use as a pillow if I wanted to.

Knoxville, Tennessee, to Atlanta, Georgia... 7035.

And for bonus points, while I'm here... The return to St. Louis...

Atlanta to Nashville, Tennessee... 6377 was the number.

Nashville, Tennessee to St. Louis... I don't remember, heh, for some reason didn't make any notes of which bus it was. Probably because we left 45 minutes late and I just wanted to get what sleep I could before having to go directly from Gateway Station to work in the morning
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All right, #86170 is a 2011 X3-45, #86055 is a 2009 X3-45, #7035 is a 2001 G4500, and #6377 is a 2000 102DL3.

I agree that the X3-45 is a big "meh" compared to what some others have raved about it. The seats are bad, huh? And the side windows are placed too high in relation to the seats. JMO.

#7035 should've been quite nice if it was a Blue G4500. Those things have lots of legroom and the nice old seats with padding. Hopefully it didn't smell like plastic.

The new seats don't appear to have much padding, I looked under one that was folded up for a wheelchair and the wheelchair had gotten off. All I could see was a yellow plate on the bottom. No wonder it sags.

A member of GTE reports that they are considering buying National or Amaya Seating, he says Dave Leach is aware of the "miserable Premiers" and plans to rectify the problem in the future.

#6377 is your good old-fashioned Greyhound rebuilt with upgrades. Has the most recline and should have good legroom, but again, I haen't sat in a regular DL3 seat in a while, past few times I sat at the front with different legroom.
 
Because that was about the 9:30 to 11 pm Eastern on Wednesday range, when I was still raging about missing the Crescent and wanting to get to Atlanta with an arrival still technically on Thursday with no deeper schedule specific knowledge. I know that I could have poked here for help, but I also wanted to solve things on my own and the solution I pulled off was a little messy with that local, but even an hour late it got Will and me into town on the time frame we needed. Heh.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
Well, that Richmond-Knoxville was a through run to Dallas. Looks like Richmond-Dallas is getting tons of X3-45's instead of DL3's.

But from Washington you could have taken 3041 to Richmond at 11:25 PM, transferred to 1081 from New York, and gotten to Atlanta at 2:45 PM. Five hours faster.

That Knoxville-Atlanta came from Cincinnati. Probably an Atlanta-based G4500. Didn't you photograph that bus at Saint Louis a while ago?

So, this Greyhound with wall outlets is a rebuilt DL3: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mistyolr/7028110369/. They didn't originally have them, so they had to install them. So does the Blue G, but the Blue G doesn't have that think window escape bar.

Apparently GLC #1130 has weird seating: http://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/f/fc/Greyhound_Canada_1130-a.jpg. It has those little headrests, never seen before on a Greyhound DL3.

Also of note, a MCI with windows open: https://www.flickr.com/photos/crown426/4310377321/. "Just pull it closed when you're about to drive."

If Leach is seriously considering dumping the Premiers, that could change Greyhound's fleet comfort significantly.
 
Hmmm... ! Aside from rearranging things period, I want to say that some part of that run was sold out - I remember that the run I ended up on was my second search.

Photographed at St. Louis? Admittedly always a possibility, though me remembering a specific bus number even a few hours later is not likely heh.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
Swadian, you may know busses but you know absolutely nothing about seats. There are about 10 different ways to make a comfortable seat, and not all of them use gratuitous amounts of padding. In my experience, almost all good seats hail from Europe. American seats tend to trend too much towards cush and too little towards comfort, although I would say that the best mass-produced office chair is American (that being Steelcase). My experience is that the best car seats come from France, in fact. I am particularly fond of the seats used in the final run out of French production non-sport Peugeot 505s, the Citroen XM, and the Renault Safrane. After French, I'd tend to say Swedish, particularly the Volvo 240 and Volvo S70 non sport. Of the German brands, Mercedes has the best, until they switched to non-steel-sprung seats in the very late 90s/early 2000s- but unlike the Swedish and French seats, those wear out with age- they cease being comfortable after about 500,000 miles of average use. The only Japanese cars I've ever seen with comfortable seating were the first generation Lexus LS400 (a nearly total copy of the Mercedes steel sprung unit in the W124) and oddly the seats used in mid 1980s Nissan Stanzas (no, I don't know why!).

Now, whats interesting about this? All three seats use totally different construction methods.

French seats, or at least those three, use a form of open cell foam for the seat pad, supported by an impressively heavy amount of closed cell foam, encased by a heavy gauge (bizarrely so, actually) steel pad bottom- no spring, and the metal pad support is fixed in place. I'm sitting on a velour example of such a seat right now, pulled out of a wrecked 1987 Peugeot 505 SW7 diesel in Morrisville, PA. Its very comfortable, although I have never had seats harder to pull than that of a Peugeot 505 (I had to drill out the front screws with a diamond tipped bit, and sawzall the rear tracks- try sawzalling high grade heavy gauge French steel sometime), and constructing an interface for one with that construction is very hard- but its worth it because it is so comfortable. It uses a level style lumbar support adjustment, and a hole and tooth style lever recliner (I'd guess bus seats use the same)

Volvo's 240 seat was the final one of its kind. It uses fairly thin open cell foam as a pad, and holds it into place using a lateral metal lattice and spring framework. Its very comfortable, and probably the most comfortable seat one can easily obtain (you need a ratchet set, and a Volvo 240, which are still plentiful in junkyards). It uses a tension gear wheel rake adjustment, which is slow but precise with infinite adjustments. The lumbar adjustment works on a twist wheel with screw jack-type adjustment mechanism. Because of the hard headrest, it is advisable to find a headrest cover for it, of course- you almost can't find them, but they are interchangeable with Volvo 740/760 style headrests covers, which are easily obtained. You can find them covered in just about any material- wool broadcloth, poly velour, Swedish leather, vinyl, Connolly or my favorite, the Italian Poltrona Frua leather used on the 242c Bertone.

Volvos S70 uses a much thicker foam pad, but the same steel lattice supporting it over the seats heavy steel frame. The Volvo S70 (and 900-series, 800-series, and later) seat has heavy metal framing that actually serve as an integral part of the cars crash structure in side impacts (it has heavy gauge steel tubes that press on the door sill on one side and the tranny tunnel on the other). Their height adjustment mechanism is about as intricate as a cheap swiss watch (which is an intricate thing, by the by), and it uses the same lumbar and rake adjustment mechanisms. One of these days I am going to get around to figuring out how to use the seat heater. The airbag has always worried me, but I cut and cap the wires and hope for the best.

Mercedes, on the other hand, uses horsehair pads (the smell associated with old Mercedes-Benz cars is basically horsehair mixed with diesel) with a light duty metal support frame and vertical coil springs for support. The rake adjustment uses the same tension gear system as the Volvo, and it has no lumbar adjustment. The Lexus version uses an imitation rough wool pad instead of horsehair, I assume because horsehair was too expensive. They both have the problem of weakening springs and decay of the horsehair over time.

So I wouldn't assume that a seat is uncomfortable because of its basic construction.
 
You forgot about Amaya seats which are very comfortable Mexican seats. But Mexicans are not known for cars or buses, they just make great seats. They have input from Spanish FAINSA and have great lumbar support and padding. That's why Latin American buses have such a good reputation even though Dina makes a bad bus product.

American Seating is horrible in buses, their Premier LS is a torture device. Their only decent seat is the 2005.

I might not know about seat construction but I know a comfortable seat from a torture device.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you have never sat in one of those cars, your comparison to Mexican seats is irrelevant. I can tell you that the manufacturing cost of a Volvo S70 leather heated seat was over a grand. Not retail- manufacturing. I have such a seat at my store as an office chair.

Obviously seat of the pants is the ONLY thing that matters in your opinion of a seats comfort. But my point was that my top three had totally different construction. Viewing said construction is irrelevant.
 
Yeah, it's a leather heated seat. A heated seat! Let's not care about construction for a second, let's just think about the end product. How about cloth non-heated regular seats? Amaya Patriot PT is great but it's not offered in the US much anymore, Torino G is the replacement and is the high-end bus seating for $739 base single, seat pair $1049.

If you're going to talk about real leather seats that Torino G price goes up and it's not even heated.

But the good thing is that it's made in Mexico so it isn't as expensive as European seats.

Right now, of the "big three" bus seat manufacturers, American is rock bottom, National is in the middle, Amaya is tops. American Seating has turned miserable to average, with the possible exception of the 2005. Now that Premier has a single yellow plate at the bottom with an airy padding and nothing else. That's why it sags and slides, and that's why it's uncomfortable. I don't know the details of how it was constructed, but it's a pain in the ar$e, literally, and that yellow plate must be part of it.

National 4210 should be all right, Amaya Torino G's probably the best right now, since Torino VIP doesn't have containment. A2-TEN probably better for touring but not good for sleeping as the wider headrest of the Torino G makes a difference.

Now Amtrak Coach seating, just a plain huge flat block. No curvature, really not that comfortable IMHO. The legroom is what makes the difference for Amtrak, not the seat curvature.
 
I personally find Amtrak coach seats comfortable.

Amaya doesn't sell those seats for free. If they cost Amaya more than a couple of hundred to produce I would be shocked. According to a Volvo dealer I can still order a new seat for an S70, manual, heated, full leather for $3900. Let's remember a large part of the cost is the SIPS airbag.

That was the dealer I built 30 chairs for, they provided the seats.
 
I find it a bit strange that we have such different experiences with the Premier seats. The ones I've sat on have all had very dense (not airy) foam padding on the seat cushion, making them hard as a rock and equally painful to sit on.

When it comes to high back seats (like the Torino G or the Patriot PT) versus standard seats with adjustable headrests (like the A2-TEN and the Torino Standard), I really think it's a matter of personal preference Personally, I like the adjustable headrests because I feel like they hold my head in a comfortable position when I sleep. Back when I was riding the Amtrak California buses every couple of weeks I would be able to to easily catch a nap on them. I know you might disagree with that, but again, it's personal preference.

But, I think you have these grandiose ideas about high back seats. In fact, you've described the Patriot PT as having "a pillow stuffed into the headrest." It doesn't. It's simply more of the same foam used in the backrest.

Lets be honest here, Greyhound does not use high back seats because some think they're more comfortable... they use them because there are less parts that can break compared to adjustable headrests, lowering the costs of long-term maintenance.

To that end I think you need to consider what has got to be Greyhound's most important consideration... cost. But without a price sheet from Amaya... we are left to just guess which seat would be cheaper.
 
Back
Top