Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

Isn't New Flyer the only Buy America company that still build trackless trolleys? Gillig dosen't seem to build them anymore and the other ones have all gone bankrupt or stopped building buses altogether.

I haven't been able to find any information about who else was in the running for the Seattle procurement, but I'm pretty sure they had some other bidders.

Orion was terrible, I'm glad they're done for.

Why do you say that? From a passenger standpoint, the Orion hybrids are pretty comfortable, and the drivers I've talked to love them.

Orion VII NG CNGs I've ridden have all been slow, very loud, and bumping all over the place. The Orion V high-floors are a lot better IMO. I don't know the other bidders, I don't really follow transit bus news that much.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So, about Greyhound, why do they have a bunch of "uneven" runs that don't have a returning run? For example, there's a through coach running Houston-Miami (Schedule 1262) but there's no Miami-Houston. Also, San Francisco-Reno Freiday special (Schedule 8322) does not seem to return to SFD. Yet another example would be the Portland-Seattle Friday/Sunday special (Schedule 6540) which doesn't have a returning equivelent.

Any sense out of all this? Deadheads are the only solution I can think of. Waste of units, might as well run another revenue service.

 

[railiner]

So, about Greyhound, why do they have a bunch of "uneven" runs that don't have a returning run? For example, there's a through coach running Houston-Miami (Schedule 1262) but there's no Miami-Houston. Also, San Francisco-Reno Freiday special (Schedule 8322) does not seem to return to SFD. Yet another example would be the Portland-Seattle Friday/Sunday special (Schedule 6540) which doesn't have a returning equivelent.
Any sense out of all this? Deadheads are the only solution I can think of. Waste of units, might as well run another revenue service.

There have always been some seemingly anomalies in GL's schedules. Without researching in detail the specific examples you cited, I will say that sometimes the 'employee timetable" which is the master bid sheet, will have built-in 'second sections' on certain runs in the other direction that would result in balancing a timetable.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So, about Greyhound, why do they have a bunch of "uneven" runs that don't have a returning run? For example, there's a through coach running Houston-Miami (Schedule 1262) but there's no Miami-Houston. Also, San Francisco-Reno Freiday special (Schedule 8322) does not seem to return to SFD. Yet another example would be the Portland-Seattle Friday/Sunday special (Schedule 6540) which doesn't have a returning equivelent.
Any sense out of all this? Deadheads are the only solution I can think of. Waste of units, might as well run another revenue service.

There have always been some seemingly anomalies in GL's schedules. Without researching in detail the specific examples you cited, I will say that sometimes the 'employee timetable" which is the master bid sheet, will have built-in 'second sections' on certain runs in the other direction that would result in balancing a timetable.....

I'll try to do some Sautrday Spotting to see if the 8322 bus going back to SFD. The most popular run westbound is usually Schedule 8315, afternoon local to SFD. I'm thinking the 8322 bus might go back as another section of the 8315, or I could just ask a driver at the station.

Another possibility is that the second section is run on Sunday afternoon as 8315 to get those weekend gamblers back home. Don't know about the 6540 coming back to SEA.

I still don't make sense of the Houston-Miami since there's no returning bus at all. I believe that bus comes back as the Orlando-Houston and it's probably ferried Miami-Orlando as an extra section on this popular segment of the Miami-Altanta through services.

Lastly, I found out that Greyhound might be considering a J4500 order. Found this picture: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51819203@N06/9206334776. I enlarged the picture and the bus appears to have all the new amenities of Greyhound but it has a 4-digit humber (6994). This number is confusing becuase 6977 is a D and 6990-91 is a G, plus 6998-99.

 

[railiner]

I believe I did once see a GL 'J' here, but it was an older one, probably acquired from one of the subsidiary companies.....the one in that photo is not the newest edition either, although it does have the current paint scheme....possibly 'refurbed'? Greyhound Canada has several from some other companies. We used to get them occoasionally during holiday weekends from Toronto. "ChaCo" and PNWC I believe they were lettered......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

It's puzzling that this one dosen't have a subsidiary number, it has a regular 6994 number. I can't find anything about where it came from. Even Greyhound Through Express has no reports.

Didn't MCI make the new J4500 look like the E4500? This one has the old "bald head" fornt end. I don't think the E is in prodcution anymore.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Here's a better pic of a refurbished G4500: http://www.flickr.com/photos/98444414@N08/9437897219/. As much as this bus sucks, it does look pretty good in the blue colours!

 

[railiner]

Didn't MCI make the new J4500 look like the E4500? This one has the old "bald head" fornt end. I don't think the E is in prodcution anymore.

Just looked at MCI's site. You seem to be correct.....they have dropped the low-selling 'E' from production. There really wasn't much difference appearance-wise in the E and the J, the E had the extra band of glass above the windshield, different taillight assemblies, dashboard, and more sophisticated electronics. It also had steerable tag axle which is now offered as an option on the J........

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Didn't MCI make the new J4500 look like the E4500? This one has the old "bald head" fornt end. I don't think the E is in prodcution anymore.

Just looked at MCI's site. You seem to be correct.....they have dropped the low-selling 'E' from production. There really wasn't much difference appearance-wise in the E and the J, the E had the extra band of glass above the windshield, different taillight assemblies, dashboard, and more sophisticated electronics. It also had steerable tag axle which is now offered as an option on the J........

So what is that black bar above the windshield of the DL3? It dosen't look like glass, it looks like a thing piece of metal or some type of special composite material. And what about those big black rubber fairings around the wheels?

Edit: I remember now, the huge black "fairings" are called "skirts."

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Argh! Greyhound's website is undergoing maintainence right now. So I can't check today's loads. I think they're installing that new yield-management system. This should drastically reduce overbookings.

As far as loads go, to SFD, Sunday's afternoon and evening runs were all sold out, presumably the Friday special bus also went back to SFD as the "scheduled extra." Monday's afternoon Limited was sold out. No eastward buses were sold out, but the loads are usually not too bad either.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Greyhound is sending their new Van Hool demonstrators to YO! Bus, I found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C1kuKE0f4.

At least this way, they'll be relegated to SD service. I would not trust a Van Hool for LD running.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

More weird rumours. On the Wikipedia page about Greyhound Lines, someone wrote "New Exclusive Information" that due to a fleet shortage caused by MC-12 retirement and ADA issues, Greyhound is now buying second-hand J4500s. They're looking for any on sale, checking it up, and pressing it into service. Maybe they'll buy some of those Adirondack J4500s that get turned in. These buses aren't very durable, I wouldn't place much trust on second-hand J4500s.

The fleet shortage seems to be making Greyhound desparate, they're trying Van Hool demonstrators, Setra demonstrators, and now outright buying any J4500 they can find in good condition. Next thing you know they might go for the H3-45. Man, Greyhound needs help!

 

[railiner]

Adirondack has not traded in any of its 'J's as yet, but will in the near future....

As for H3-45's....GLC has had a handful in their fleet, not sure how many....we see them rarely now. Last time they came down was over Thanksgiving holiday.

If Greyhound is so short of equipment, wonder why they don't refurb more of their DL3's, and install lifts into those not equipped. We installed lifts into the XL-II's and H3-45's in our fleet that didn't have them (we took them to ABC Bus in Minnesota for the work).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Adirondack has not traded in any of its 'J's as yet, but will in the near future....

As for H3-45's....GLC has had a handful in their fleet, not sure how many....we see them rarely now. Last time they came down was over Thanksgiving holiday.

If Greyhound is so short of equipment, wonder why they don't refurb more of their DL3's, and install lifts into those not equipped. We installed lifts into the XL-II's and H3-45's in our fleet that didn't have them (we took them to ABC Bus in Minnesota for the work).

Greyhound's doing their best with the DL3s. A driver told me that have been trying to rebuild everything they can, not only at Nappanee but also in their own Louisville and Richmond Maintainence Centers. I don't know about Richmond, it seems pretty busy without the rebuilding already, but Louisville has no O&D schedules so they have plenty of room to rebuild then send the units out on extra sections.

Back in January Greyhound rolled their 500th rebuild (#6977) into Indianapolis and ran east to New York. Seven monthes have passed, so I'm pretty sure they have 600 rebuilt now. They have about 800 DL3s in their fleet, so everything should be running line-haul soon. Greyhound lost dozens of DL3s that didn't have wheelchair lifts, the rest are only for Travel Services, no line-haul.

Further desparate attempts to counter the fleet shortages include rebuilding all the G4500s which were slated for early retirement. In addition, spotters have photographed Van Hool, Setra, and Dina demontrators, all painted in base white with Greyhound decals. If any of them pass the tests, Greyhound could be forced to buy more of those to supplement the large order of 130 Model D and 90 Model X units being delivered right now.

I just saw #6247, a DL3 with no lift parked at the terminal here. It's got the older livery from 2004, but not the oldest original DL3 livery. It drove off somewhere running empty, I'm not sure where, probably to Indy for a rebuild. Hopefully they actually install the lift instead of just rebuilding the bus and sending it to Canada.

All this basically shows that Greyhound is doing every last thing they can to get more buses on the road. The progress isn't too bad, a fresh rebuild is getting on the road about every day and a brand new bus is getting delivered about every 2 days. Plus the influx of demo buses, second-hand buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

More spotting today. Here in RNO today, 4 G4500s and 1 D4505. The units were 7028, 7165, 7190, 7268, and 86378. I arrived just at the right time to see the 2:50 PM Local departing to SFD. It was 7028, that bus wan't in great shape, but the load was good. 7165 was terribly damaged, the bumper was about to fall off, the door had a crack open, the trimming was all ripped up, a baggage hatch was missing, and paint was peeling off. 7190 was pretty good except for a bit of missing trimming and minor bumper damage. 7268 was also missing a baggage hatch and trimming. 86378 was the D, it was of curse immaculate. I think that one ran to Denver tonight.

I did notice that 7268 had its door wide open and its engine running but no one was in the loading area watching it. I walked right up to the bus for a picture and could have swiped it right under Greyhound's nose. Even the driver of 7028 was nowhere to be seen even though the bus was loaded and ready to go.

Another thing I saw was that all the buses had the correct destination sign, 7028 read SAN FRANCISCO and 7268 reno RENO. Pretty good job for two damaged buses.

A question I've had for a while: what's the difference in Greyhound lingo between a Limited and an Express? Which one is faster?

 

[railiner]

More spotting today. Here in RNO today, 4 G4500s and 1 D4505. The units were 7028, 7165, 7190, 7268, and 86378. I arrived just at the right time to see the 2:50 PM Local departing to SFD. It was 7028, that bus wan't in great shape, but the load was good. 7165 was terribly damaged, the bumper was about to fall off, the door had a crack open, the trimming was all ripped up, a baggage hatch was missing, and paint was peeling off. 7190 was pretty good except for a bit of missing trimming and minor bumper damage. 7268 was also missing a baggage hatch and trimming. 86378 was the D, it was of curse immaculate. I think that one ran to Denver tonight.

I did notice that 7268 had its door wide open and its engine running but no one was in the loading area watching it. I walked right up to the bus for a picture and could have swiped it right under Greyhound's nose. Even the driver of 7028 was nowhere to be seen even though the bus was loaded and ready to go.

Another thing I saw was that all the buses had the correct destination sign, 7028 read SAN FRANCISCO and 7268 reno RENO. Pretty good job for two damaged buses.

A question I've had for a while: what's the difference in Greyhound lingo between a Limited and an Express? Which one is faster?

I always thought both terms meant similar--less imtermediate stops. In current GL usage, 'Express' is sort of a sub-brand name for mostly non-stop service between two major points, requiring a ticket specifically for a certain trip. I haven't seen the use of 'Limited' for a long time. They used it mostly in the 1930's to 1960.s on certain long distance runs on thru routes that only made limited stops, a way to afford some 'prestige' akin to railway limiteds of the period. They also used it on some so-called 'VIP XL Limited' trips in a few markets such as St. Louis to Kansas City non-stop, with personal radio service and other amenities around 1970.

Back in the late 1960's, the newly delivered MC-5 Challenger's roll signs for the Eastern Greyhound Lines division, had the regular city, and then a repeat followed by 'Non-Stop'. They strongly promoted their non-stop services during that era, especially on all the heavy corridor routes out of New York City. The 'world's longest non-stop bus route', was the New York City to Chicago trip via the Lincoln Tunnel, the New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Ohio Turnpikes, the Indiana Toll Road, and the Chicago Skyway toll bridge.

It made the trip in 16 hours or less, including three rest stops and two driver changes at turnpike plaza's. Later on, one of the plaza's was replaced by the then brand new Breezewood, Pa. Post House, so technically it was no longer a true non-stop. Eventually, I-80 replaced the NJ and Pa turnpike route, and with its shorter route, they added Cleveland as a stop, yet could still almost maintain the fast schedule. The Scenicruiser held down that trip until MC-7's eventually replaced them. Rarely was an MC-5 used on that trip except as a second section....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

More spotting today. Here in RNO today, 4 G4500s and 1 D4505. The units were 7028, 7165, 7190, 7268, and 86378. I arrived just at the right time to see the 2:50 PM Local departing to SFD. It was 7028, that bus wan't in great shape, but the load was good. 7165 was terribly damaged, the bumper was about to fall off, the door had a crack open, the trimming was all ripped up, a baggage hatch was missing, and paint was peeling off. 7190 was pretty good except for a bit of missing trimming and minor bumper damage. 7268 was also missing a baggage hatch and trimming. 86378 was the D, it was of curse immaculate. I think that one ran to Denver tonight.

I did notice that 7268 had its door wide open and its engine running but no one was in the loading area watching it. I walked right up to the bus for a picture and could have swiped it right under Greyhound's nose. Even the driver of 7028 was nowhere to be seen even though the bus was loaded and ready to go.

Another thing I saw was that all the buses had the correct destination sign, 7028 read SAN FRANCISCO and 7268 reno RENO. Pretty good job for two damaged buses.

A question I've had for a while: what's the difference in Greyhound lingo between a Limited and an Express? Which one is faster?

I always thought both terms meant similar--less imtermediate stops. In current GL usage, 'Express' is sort of a sub-brand name for mostly non-stop service between two major points, requiring a ticket specifically for a certain trip. I haven't seen the use of 'Limited' for a long time. They used it mostly in the 1930's to 1960.s on certain long distance runs on thru routes that only made limited stops, a way to afford some 'prestige' akin to railway limiteds of the period. They also used it on some so-called 'VIP XL Limited' trips in a few markets such as St. Louis to Kansas City non-stop, with personal radio service and other amenities around 1970.

Back in the late 1960's, the newly delivered MC-5 Challenger's roll signs for the Eastern Greyhound Lines division, had the regular city, and then a repeat followed by 'Non-Stop'. They strongly promoted their non-stop services during that era, especially on all the heavy corridor routes out of New York City. The 'world's longest non-stop bus route', was the New York City to Chicago trip via the Lincoln Tunnel, the New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Ohio Turnpikes, the Indiana Toll Road, and the Chicago Skyway toll bridge.

It made the trip in 16 hours or less, including three rest stops and two driver changes at turnpike plaza's. Later on, one of the plaza's was replaced by the then brand new Breezewood, Pa. Post House, so technically it was no longer a true non-stop. Eventually, I-80 replaced the NJ and Pa turnpike route, and with its shorter route, they added Cleveland as a stop, yet could still almost maintain the fast schedule. The Scenicruiser held down that trip until MC-7's eventually replaced them. Rarely was an MC-5 used on that trip except as a second section....

Thanks for the info. Greyhound still has the modern version of that old New York-Chicago non-stop route, now it stops at Cleveland, Toledo, and South Bend, but it only has two rest stops and the driver change is at Cleveland. That is pretty fast, taking just over 17 hours.

Have you ever seen that bus? What equipment does it use nowadays?

 

[railiner]

Today's arrivals:

Sked 4414-01 6485

Sked 1604-01 6404

$$$

Both DL-3's.......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Aww, I miss them DL3s! :blush: Haven't seen one since I saw 6247 in June! I think those you saw were rebuilt, too.

I remembered to take a look at the people lining up to board that bus. Nor a single college student. A bunch of seniors, a bunch of poor people, a bunch of bule-collar workers, a few travellers/wanderers, and a few suspicious passengers. But no college students. Zero. Nil. None at all.

What's that -01 behind the schedule number? I'm assuming it means the only section? What about the $$$? I'm probably acting real dumb right now, but I just want to know.

 

[railiner]

Today's arrivals......

Sked 4414-01 86078

Sked 1604-01 86237

$$$

Both X-3's.....

You are correct....'-01' indicates section number. Things are really slow this week. Even Sunday night only had the one section. They set up for two, but the 'double' was not needed.

As for '$$$', I did that from an ancient habit from the early 1970's when I was an Operations Supervisor for Greyhound at Omaha....whenever we entered a schedule movement into the ancient 'Greycom' computer (via paper tape!), that is how we ended the data entry...a far cry from B.O.S.S.........

Old habits die hard....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Woah, 86237 is brand-new 2013 X3-45! I looked up the schedules, 1604 comes from Chicago and 4414 comes from Detroit.

Schedules aren't very crowded here either. But as always, all the sunday afternoon skeds to San Francisco were sold out. I'm pretty sure they sent extra sections. There's always the weekend spare here from the Friday special in case all the skeds get overwhelmed. We also have loads of casino charters that are contracted to send gamblers here from California with fare included in the casino prices. I've seen three G4500s making rounds to the casinos. Must be good guarenteed weekend traffic for the Hound. Of course they always get the crappiest G4500s like 7104, 7165, or 7280 because Greyhound has no risk of losing casino traffic. Haven't seen 7104 in quite some time, maybe they sent that trash can for a rebuild.

About that rebuild, I hear they're going to gut the whole bus and give it a new Volvo D13 engine. I'm pretty sure that engine fits the CA Emission Standards, so they're probably not removing them from the West anytime soon.

What I'm wondering is whether the rebuild will stop the fires. I know there's engine fires, but what about the tag axle fires or electrical fires? Do you think the rebuild will prevent those, too?

 

[railiner]

I don't know that much about them to venture an informed opinion....

There were three ratty-looking 'G's in the Hoboken lot early Tuesday morning....

As for light loads....because of that, this has always been my favorite time of the year for vacation travel. The weather is usually quite nice, the children are in school, and for pass traveler's, it is usually wide-open. Also, popular tourist destinations are usually less crowded.....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I don't know that much about them to venture an informed opinion....

There were three ratty-looking 'G's in the Hoboken lot early Tuesday morning....

As for light loads....because of that, this has always been my favorite time of the year for vacation travel. The weather is usually quite nice, the children are in school, and for pass traveler's, it is usually wide-open. Also, popular tourist destinations are usually less crowded.....

Yep, that's why I'm going on another trip in October. Should be nice for a short hop to California. Loads aren't light around here though, we got plenty of sell-outs. The following skeds were sold out today: Sked 8311 RNO-SFD afternoon Express, Sked 1436 SAC-PUT overnight Local, Sked 1431 PUT-SAC overnight Limited, Sked 6848 LAD-SFD overnight Express, and Sked 6749 SFD-LAD overnight Express.

Not as much as the weekends though, often a lot of the SAC-LAD buses are sold out too. But not too bad. I think the SFD-LAD is an Express and PUT-SAC would be Limited, not sure.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Check out my Flickr bus pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/with/9944741196/. John is not my real name, I'm Torsten, or Tor.

 

[railiner]

Thanks for posting...