Heartland Flyer getting bashed

[acelafan]

Saw that the Heartland Flyer was getting bashed on another site being almost 8 hours late into OKC this morning with tons of football fans - before I tell them to settle down I was curious if anyone knew if it was an Amtrak problem or host RR problem?

 

[Shortline]

Holy cow, it was late! Scheduled into OKC at 9:39 PM.....actual arrival? 05:34! That would suck big time! Showing it was out on time, but something must have happened in a big way. Maybe a derailment or something on the Red Rock sub. Must be corrected, showing estimated arrival 17 minutes early into OKC tonight.

And, regardless of the cause, you're not going to win any points for telling them to settle down. I WORK for the RR and get it, but would still be pretty upset if my 9:40 PM train didn't get in until Breakfast and time to go to work! Thankfully it was a Sunday AM arrival and not Monday, but, that's 600 people who won't be doing the Flyer again next year.....or probably anytime....

 

[Anderson]

I'd be curious as well. I'm actually wondering if the train might not have been badly delayed getting out of Dallas, given the likely demeanor of the aforementioned fans. Anyone know if there was any drunk/disorderly trouble, either onboard or at the station? Also, I can't find a record of this on the Dixieland site...was this an entirely separate special from 822?

Edit: Nevermind...was looking at the wrong date. Here's the record:

* FTW * * 1 525P * 525P Departed: on time.

* GLE * * 1 647P * 703P Departed: 16 minutes late.

* ADM * * 1 728P * 910P Departed: 1 hour and 42 minutes late.

PVL * * 1 821P CT

* PUR * * 1 847P * 342A Departed: 6 hours and 55 minutes late.

NOR * * 1 904P CT

* OKC 1 939P * * 534A * Arrived: 7 hours and 55 minutes late.

It looks like something more or less went to hell after ADM...anyone got any insight here? Likewise, what does CT mean? My best guess, considering how they were losing time from "go", is that you had some trouble with the crowds.

 

[PRR 60]

I'd be curious as well. I'm actually wondering if the train might not have been badly delayed getting out of Dallas, given the likely demeanor of the aforementioned fans. Anyone know if there was any drunk/disorderly trouble, either onboard or at the station? Also, I can't find a record of this on the Dixieland site...was this an entirely separate special from 822?

Edit: Nevermind...was looking at the wrong date. Here's the record:

* FTW * * 1 525P * 525P Departed: on time.

* GLE * * 1 647P * 703P Departed: 16 minutes late.

* ADM * * 1 728P * 910P Departed: 1 hour and 42 minutes late.

PVL * * 1 821P CT

* PUR * * 1 847P * 342A Departed: 6 hours and 55 minutes late.

NOR * * 1 904P CT

* OKC 1 939P * * 534A * Arrived: 7 hours and 55 minutes late.

It looks like something more or less went to hell after ADM...anyone got any insight here? Likewise, what does CT mean? My best guess, considering how they were losing time from "go", is that you had some trouble with the crowds.

CT = Central Time. When an actual time is reported, it overwrites the "CT."

 

[gdj]

According to a person on another list who claimed to have been a passenger on the train, they had the following events. They stopped somewhere around Arbuckles due to an electrical problem. After messing around with this problem and not being able to fix it, two BNSF locomotives were brought down from Davis to pull them. Before they could get going they discovered that the brakes on one of the Amtrak locomotives were locked. They then had to disconnect this unit. They finally got going about 3 am, but then the crew went dead.

Gary

 

[henryj]

Amtrak status maps shows #822 is only 27 minutes late out of Pauls Valley.

 

[Anderson]

Geez...and the Flyer doesn't even have BC. To be blunt, that sounds like twelve hours of railroading hell...and that narrative has the air of truth, since I'm guessing the crew would've been "live" for a little while pre-departure. I'm imagining twelve hours stuck on a NE Regional for comparison, and twelve hours on a Regional isn't always a blast even when everything is running properly.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Provided I wasn't in a hurry to get home, I'd just ease that seat back and relax and maybe get to know some of my fellow passengers. If this happened on Saturday, then there were likely few OU fans on board as the special fare was for Friday down-Sunday back. But that made for a fast turnaround in OKC-luckily almost all the catering is done in FTW.

 

[acelafan]

According to a person on another list who claimed to have been a passenger on the train, they had the following events. They stopped somewhere around Arbuckles due to an electrical problem. After messing around with this problem and not being able to fix it, two BNSF locomotives were brought down from Davis to pull them. Before they could get going they discovered that the brakes on one of the Amtrak locomotives were locked. They then had to disconnect this unit. They finally got going about 3 am, but then the crew went dead.

Gary

Hmmm, sounds like the trip just went to hell...one of those things that happens. The other list was very upset that no one was going to ever ride the H.F. again - but we all know unfortunate things can happen at the most inopportune times. They were demanding Congressional action and Amtrak give out free travel vouchers and gift cards and all that - a little over the top, I thought.

 

[rrdude]

Some things I read on this forum, obviously comments from other posters related to (usually) Amtrak travel problems, simply make my blood boil.

What part don't you all get?

Ninety five percent (obviously a guess) of the people who travel Amtrak (many only once) are probably using it primarily for transportation. They expect on time service, with courteous staff, and, one would expect, timely communication. The recent 7+ hour late debacle on the Heartland Flyer elicited some comments I've copied below:

• "............ I'd just ease that seat back and relax and maybe get to know some of my fellow passengers............" That's just great, if you are a flaming rail fan (like me) and you almost expect, and indeed are often glad, whenever your train is late. Not so much for many others, who have made other plans, after the scheduled arrival time.
  
• "...........They were demanding Congressional action and Amtrak give out free travel vouchers and gift cards and all that - a little over the top, I thought........." Good luck with the Congressional action, but "free vouchers" or "gift cards". HELL YES, Amtrak ought to do that, in situations like this. (Then bill the host RR, if indeed there is cause)
  

Any time a "Special Event" train is run, or an regularly scheduled train has a huge group, special attention should be paid to the trip. I"d guess most of the pax were taking the train for the first time, to "have" a good time, avoid the drive, party a little, etc., etc. Now instead of gaining more supporters/travelers, Amtrak (perhaps through no fault of their own), has potentially lost, (and perhaps switched others to become "Amtrak-Haters") but get this: THAT IS IMMATERIAL!

If you want Amtrak to succeed, they must act (and often they do) like a caring, private, competitive business. It seems like in this case they did not. If I was the train manager on that train, (Oh, wait, they don;t have them) I'd be walking up and down the aisles asking who wanted travel vouchers for a future trip. "..........We screwed up your trip this time folks, sorry, try us again, on our dime. If we screw it up again, we'll give you a full refund............."

Some people just don't understand. "Explanations" don't just cut it.

• Crew Died? So what? That could have been expected. Get me to my destination on time.
• Brakes locked? I don't care, provide better maintenance. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Freight RR locos on the way? Great, get them here sooner. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Hit a car at a crossing? Provide better protection at the crossing. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Freight derailment ahead of us? Fine, re-route, or do something..........Get me to my destination on time.
  

I'm going to go hit my head against a wall now........it might feel better..........

 

[acelafan]

Some things I read on this forum, obviously comments from other posters related to (usually) Amtrak travel problems, simply make my blood boil.

What part don't you all get?

Ninety five percent (obviously a guess) of the people who travel Amtrak (many only once) are probably using it primarily for transportation. They expect on time service, with courteous staff, and, one would expect, timely communication. The recent 7+ hour late debacle on the Heartland Flyer elicited some comments I've copied below:

• "............ I'd just ease that seat back and relax and maybe get to know some of my fellow passengers............" That's just great, if you are a flaming rail fan (like me) and you almost expect, and indeed are often glad, whenever your train is late. Not so much for many others, who have made other plans, after the scheduled arrival time.
  
• "...........They were demanding Congressional action and Amtrak give out free travel vouchers and gift cards and all that - a little over the top, I thought........." Good luck with the Congressional action, but "free vouchers" or "gift cards". HELL YES, Amtrak ought to do that, in situations like this. (Then bill the host RR, if indeed there is cause)
  

Any time a "Special Event" train is run, or an regularly scheduled train has a huge group, special attention should be paid to the trip. I"d guess most of the pax were taking the train for the first time, to "have" a good time, avoid the drive, party a little, etc., etc. Now instead of gaining more supporters/travelers, Amtrak (perhaps through no fault of their own), has potentially lost, (and perhaps switched others to become "Amtrak-Haters") but get this: THAT IS IMMATERIAL!

If you want Amtrak to succeed, they must act (and often they do) like a caring, private, competitive business. It seems like in this case they did not. If I was the train manager on that train, (Oh, wait, they don;t have them) I'd be walking up and down the aisles asking who wanted travel vouchers for a future trip. "..........We screwed up your trip this time folks, sorry, try us again, on our dime. If we screw it up again, we'll give you a full refund............."

Some people just don't understand. "Explanations" don't just cut it.

• Crew Died? So what? That could have been expected. Get me to my destination on time.
• Brakes locked? I don't care, provide better maintenance. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Freight RR locos on the way? Great, get them here sooner. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Hit a car at a crossing? Provide better protection at the crossing. Get me to my destination on time.
  
• Freight derailment ahead of us? Fine, re-route, or do something..........Get me to my destination on time.
  

I'm going to go hit my head against a wall now........it might feel better..........

I agree that you only get one shot to make a good first impression...consistent good and thoughtful customer service is not Amtrak's strong point as we know.

 

[henryj]

The football special from Dallas was Sunday, not Saturday and it was on time. Did Saturday's train originate in Dallas or Fort Worth??? The only way a fan could make it would be to leave the game early and that would be mostly tu fans heading back to Austin.

 

[Shortline]

That's true, hopefully it wasn't too crowded. Must have been a bad locomotive failure, they left the engine in a side track north of Ardmore, just passed it a few minutes ago. It's unusual to have a failure bad enough to require leaving it in the middle of nowhere!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The football special from Dallas was Sunday, not Saturday and it was on time. Did Saturday's train originate in Dallas or Fort Worth??? The only way a fan could make it would be to leave the game early and that would be mostly tu fans heading back to Austin.

CORRECT! The game didn't end until 3-ish; so by the time a Sooner fan gets out of the Cotton Bowl (overflowing toilets and all), out of the Fairgrounds and finds transport over to FTW, it will be dangerously close to 5:25 train time. Therefore the Saturday ridership was a normal Saturday ridership. At least there was an SSL in consist to break up any monotony of sitting in your Chair. And the Heartland Flyer has a great crew all the way around and I'm sure they kept everyone updated.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

That's true, hopefully it wasn't too crowded. Must have been a bad locomotive failure, they left the engine in a side track north of Ardmore, just passed it a few minutes ago. It's unusual to have a failure bad enough to require leaving it in the middle of nowhere!

It sounds like you are having a good run so far and most likely you have the SSL pretty much to yourself. You passed my house almost right on the advertised this morning. Who are your Conductors and who is skippering the Lounge?

 

[Trogdor]

I'll agree with what rrdude said. The other pet peeve of mine, though not really mentioned on this thread, is the almost automatic response of "well, airlines won't do this/that, and they run late" or "would you complain about being stuck in traffic on the highway?"

Also very apolologistic responses that imply that one shouldn't complain about Amtrak delays.

Amtrak can't always control the delays, but they can absolutely control their response to the delays.

 

[jimjcmo]

Giving passengers information about problems when they arise is essential. Lack of information makes people fearful and frustrated. I don't know what the crew did in that respect, but full disclosure should have been made. Secondly, they should have chartered some buses to pick up the passengers ASAP to get them and football fans to their destinations. Thirdly, free travel vouchers need to be issued.

Now I don't know how the actual events unfolded, so maybe the charted buses would not have worked out. But it seems to me that Amtrak should have a procedure in place for dealing with problems such as this.

 

[Eric S]

I'll agree with what rrdude said. The other pet peeve of mine, though not really mentioned on this thread, is the almost automatic response of "well, airlines won't do this/that, and they run late" or "would you complain about being stuck in traffic on the highway?"

Also very apolologistic responses that imply that one shouldn't complain about Amtrak delays.

Amtrak can't always control the delays, but they can absolutely control their response to the delays.

Very well put.

 

[AlanB]

Secondly, they should have chartered some buses to pick up the passengers ASAP to get them and football fans to their destinations.

My guess, given the fact that Amtrak was able to basically sell out a train, most charter buses in the area were already busy on their own football game contracts and unavailable to Amtrak. Just like Amtrak's engineer's, bus drivers are subject to a maximum number of work hours followed by a certain number of hours of rest.

Finding enough buses for 600 passengers isn't an easy task to begin with, as companies don't keep buses & drivers just sitting around waiting for work. Finding them on that weekend in that area would be doubly hard.

 

[Anderson]

You know, granting that it's the middle of nowhere and whatnot, but it would seem that in a case like this (presuming that it was, in fact, the football special) Amtrak could do something for the folks on board like rushing some food out to the train and comping meals. A logisitical nightmare? Absolutely, and not cheap to do either. But as has been noted...a lot of those 600 passengers are make-or-break first time riders.

I don't know what my impression of Amtrak would have been had my first trip been absolutely lousy. It wasn't great, mind you (just try sleeping in a suit in coach and see how you feel in the morning), but I've definitely had worse (try sleeping in coach on a plane these days) and breakfast in the diner made up for any soreness I was feeling (not to mention that I'd been expecting soreness...and was actually expecting a late train thanks to all of the warnings I'd been given about Amtrak outside the NEC, and I got to FL on time). I suspect I'd have muddled through and kept taking the train on certain occasions, but I can't say for sure either way.

 

[user 1215]

It's pretty hard to comp meals when they don't have a diner. And the number of passengers were crazy high. Don't know if they could have flown in by helicopter a sufficient number of sandwiches to make everyone happy.

This is a black eye for sure for Amtrak, and it's a shame that it happened this weekend.

 

[dart330]

Local news channel is reporting that "Some of the issues may have even been the result of lightning striking the train".

http://kfor.com/2012/10/15/heartland-flyer-passengers-spend-long-night-on-train/

 

[acelafan]

The "Passenger Rail Oklahoma" Facebook page has a discussion on these events. They are a dedicated group of passenger rail advocates but do hold Amtrak accountable when things go really wrong. Here is what they say Amtrak media relations said:

--

Although there could have been some Sooner supporters on Saturday night’s train, this evening’s train is more likely to have OU fans, since that’s the way it was marketed. Whatever their reasons for travel, the 118 passengers on last night’s train north of Ardmore are important to us and we regret disappointing them due to a series of factors that led to the extreme delay.

The first cause of the delay last night was due to the severe weather. We were operating at a reduced speed under BNSF’s direction due to the flash flooding conditions, putting us more than 90 minutes behind leaving Ardmore. Then a tree was found to be blocking the tracks near Dougherty, Okla., where more time was lost.

After holding there for the tree to be removed, we were unable to proceed due to a problem that developed between the locomotives (the cause is under investigation).

Attempts were was made to obtain chartered buses to carry the passengers the rest of the way, but none could be obtained, perhaps due to the OU-Texas game. We were stopped at a not very accessible location, but nevertheless we tried to charter some buses in case it could have been possible to unload the passengers at some point.

Of course, our primary concern is passenger and crew safety. At no time were passengers at risk and we dispatched managers and contractors, along with BNSF assistance to bring in the train. We departed on-time this morning and are planning to operate successfully going forward.

--

 

[PRR 60]

The "Passenger Rail Oklahoma" Facebook page has a discussion on these events. They are a dedicated group of passenger rail advocates but do hold Amtrak accountable when things go really wrong. Here is what they say Amtrak media relations said:

...Whatever their reasons for travel, the 118 passengers on last night’s train north of Ardmore are important to us and we regret disappointing them due to a series of factors that led to the extreme delay.

...

--

Looks like the original estimate that there were 600 passengers on board was a bit optimistic.

 

[acelafan]

The "Passenger Rail Oklahoma" Facebook page has a discussion on these events. They are a dedicated group of passenger rail advocates but do hold Amtrak accountable when things go really wrong. Here is what they say Amtrak media relations said:

...Whatever their reasons for travel, the 118 passengers on last night’s train north of Ardmore are important to us and we regret disappointing them due to a series of factors that led to the extreme delay.

...

--

Looks like the original estimate that there were 600 passengers on board was a bit optimistic.

My thoughts too: a double-edged sword.