Hoosier State Going from IPH Back to Amtrak

[jis]

According to a few usually informed sources posting on a few other boards things look murky for the future of IPH operated Hoosier State.

Apparently the financial issues that IPH faces is going to cause them to cease operating the Hoosier State. Supposedly there will be an announcement as soon as tomorrow (Monday 1/30/17) announcing IP's wind-down of service.

Ind-DOT is apparently in negotiations with Amtrak to take back operations for a four month period to give Ind-DOT the opportunity to put it out for bid again..

The one good thing is that no one is talking about outright discontinuing the service any more.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I've heard rumors as well but I remain confused. One rumor has IPH terminating the agreement to provide equipment in March. Indiana contracted IPH to operate the train until 6/30/17. Unless Indiana has decided not to pay, I fail to see how IPH can not continue to provide the equipment since their costs should be covered...unless there is complete structural breakdown in IPH, which may be the case.

In any case, I will wait until something officially comes out.

That being said, this is just another example of the operational difficulties passenger railroads run into and why you don't see too many operators putting their toe into the market.

 

[Palmetto]

And yet, there are those who still believe that private operators are the way to go. But out of the other side of their mouths they bleat: "Why can't we have the same type of trains as they do in Europe?"

 

[jis]

At this point I am very reluctant to speculate beyond what we know through the rumor mill from what appears to be a couple of independent sources. Let us wait for the announcement and then take it from there.

 

[Seaboard92]

I can say that there have been some high level (senior management) layoffs lately. I was working on a charter in their Grenada line with the head of passenger services for them and he was laid off. Nice guy I feel really bad for him.

As far as financially I'm hearing from my sources (IP employees, and other PV guys) things are not looking good there. As I said a few months ago ride it while you can. But no one believed me when I said it would fail.

 

[Gulfwind2]

It's been a wash for quite some time. Amtrak got the bulk of the InDoT subsidy from the start of the agreement. I'm with ThirdRail on this one however- the rumors on Trainorders will rot your brain so it's best not to make any suppositions on what is to happen until official announcements are made.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

And yet, there are those who still believe that private operators are the way to go. But out of the other side of their mouths they bleat: "Why can't we have the same type of trains as they do in Europe?"

I still rather have private operators pay for rail service as opposed to paying for it myself via tax dollars. And if there's competition it's better for the consumer (more choices, lower fares). Imagine if there was no private television and the only channels you could watch are PBS and state/local funded stations. That's kind of like the passenger rail system is now. Of course it's not realistic (as of 2017). But I don't want to give up on the idea either and I'm not going to root against companies to fail. Hopefully Brightline goes well and it leads to more companies investing in passenger rail. Demand for rail service is higher today than it was before A-Day when Penn Central and others failed.

As for Europe, the trains may be better in Europe but if they pay significantly higher taxes to pay for it, is it worth it? And most of those countries are a lot smaller than the US so the amount of money that France pays for their entire country's rail system probably would barely cover the amount for California's alone, let alone the entire country (although China is larger and their rail system is also way better than the US).

 

[jis]

Why don't we focus on the fate of IPH run Hoosier State in this thread and take general philosophy elsewhere?

 

[jebr]

Why don't we focus on the fate of IPH run Hoosier State in this thread and take general philosophy elsewhere?

Seconded.

 

[PRR 60]

No longer a rumor:

Amtrak Release

 

[bmjhagen9426]

It looks like the worst fears for some have been confirmed. Time is running out for those who wanted to ride the Hoosier State run by IPH equipment.

 

[Seaboard92]

I told people several months ago ride it while you can. They over expanded and didn't scale the entire company properly. And for that I'm not surprised they go under

 

[jis]

No longer a rumor:

Amtrak Release

I guess we will have to wait for other sources to confirm the bit about the 4 months interim agreement and rebidding etc.

 

[CoachSlumber]

IPH tends to act like everything is going great--until it isn't (see CONO service, which kind of whimpered away). That said, the schedule of the Hoosier was just hostile to success. I would have liked to do a weekend trip from Chicago, but the schedule made it impossible logically to work it out with a couple of hotel nights.

 

[jebr]

I'm not terribly surprised. I'm not even sure having a daily IP Hoosier State would have saved it.

I'm frankly not sure what market the first class product was trying to court. It's slower than driving (or probably even flying if you have Pre,) the calling times aren't great in IND, and I don't think there'd be enough first class traffic for intermediate points. The scenery also isn't anything to write home about, so that loses anyone who wanted to do it as a scenic trip. I'm not sure if coach was better or worse than with Amtrak, but it sounds like IP used more labor than Amtrak would, and labor isn't cheap. Paired with older equipment that surely required a lot of maintenance, and I'm not surprised that the economics didn't work out.

 

[Lonestar648]

Its sad this didn't work out, but I am not surprised. Serving the public and making a profit is difficult if not almost impossible,

 

[Gulfwind2]

This should speak a grim tone towards the future of private contract-operated passenger rail. Well folks you know what to do, ring those congressional telephones and tell them to get serious about predictable public funding for passenger rail.

 

[HenryK]

I rode the IP twice. Nice, but in my opinion not all that different from Amtrak.

 

[A Voice]

The single encouraging part of this regrettable outcome is that Indiana is apparently still committed to operation of the Hoosier State. This would have been a convenient excuse to throw in the towel, but they haven't. With business class and wi-fi (and presumably food service, even if just a standard menu Horizon dinette) it will remain a step above what the train had been previously under Amtrak.

I assume this means the end and liquidation of Iowa Pacific itself, or else they should have been able to continue a subsidized service.

 

[jis]

That would be further verified if the rumors about the rebidding is true, and indeed this time around it might be Amtrak that wins at the end.

 

[Lonestar648]

Not sure, but IP may have created a separate corporation solely owned by IP, in case the Hoosier didn't work out, so they could bankrupt that corporation without taking the entire company under.

 

[jis]

Not sure, but IP may have created a separate corporation solely owned by IP, in case the Hoosier didn't work out, so they could bankrupt that corporation without taking the entire company under.

But the problem is in the entire company at present. A lot of the rest of the company has already been shall we say - disinvested. And no they did not create any separate company for the Hoosier State as far is known in public records.

 

[rtabern]

I am the Executive Director of a non-profit foundation that provides narration and route guide sheets/books to passengers on the Hoosier State. We rotate 10 volunteers who narrate on most Sunday morning northbound trips... for more information check us out at www.hoosiertrain.com and www.chicagorails.com. We started to do programs on private railcars... and expanded over to the Hoosier a few months ago after Mr. Ellis heard our program on a charter trip and liked it... and were asked to volunteer on his train. Iowa Pacific and INDOT have been amazing to work with. Very forward thinking groups who care about passengers and improving the quality of rail service. I kinda heard buzz about this for the past 3 weeks now, but didn't post anything out of respect for our partnership with Iowa Pacific and INDOT until the official release came down. It's really a blow and very sad. Even before we did our program, we enjoyed riding on the Hoosier State just to experience the full-length dome car and excellent meal service. I hope folks will come out in the next 3 weeks and really experience what this service was. We will have guides on the train on February 5, 19, and 26... and then are waiting to see what will happen for us beyond that. We will still do our private car trips in the Midwest, but will miss regular runs. Sad a dome car is being replaced by an Amfleet coach and maybe an unstaffed cafe/business car. I was really rooting for Iowa Pacific on this one. A real kick in the gut... hope they can do something to re-form... we would love to work with them again someday.

 

[jis]

Here is the INDOT official missive:

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/INDOT/bulletins/180470b

 

[saxman]

I couldn't see this lasting very long. With full service meals and everything in business class. Luckily I was able to ride this twice so I got breakfast both times. I never got to have dinner, which I really wanted to enjoy.