How and when does Amtrak decide to add cars to a route?

[Matthew H Fish]

It would probably present an engineering challenge, but it seems that there would be ways to work around the electrical power issue. I just looked it up, and a railroad car uses 20-150 kWh, while the battery in a Prius is rated at 9 kWh. So it seems possible to have some cars operate under battery power.

Obviously, refitting a train car with batteries is not something that can be done easily, but it seems far from impossible.

 

[railiner]

HEP powered cars do have a small battery to provide limited lighting and PA power during short periods of loss of HEP,
But nothing like the large batteries that their predecessors had, which were charged by axle generators, or in some cases “Enginators”.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

As more people buy tickets, they add more cars. They also add more staff, I imagine.

Do travel agents still buy up tickets at bucket lows, and then cancel those they haven't been able to re-sell? If so, that would create a false impression that more cars are needed.

 

[west point]

It will take several items for Amtrak to add and delete cars on a train.
1. For terminal to terminal of course it will take more rolling stock equipment. That will be easier for the short haul trains than the long haul trains.
2. For LD trains that only need excess capacity for part of trip it will require several items as well as more equipment.
3. A change in some work rules so T&E crews can do their own switching.
4. Siding spaces to store cars and some places locos for equipment needed for whole route. Crescent south of ATL one glaring example.
5. HEP connections at those sidings
6. Some car inspectors to do daily inspections at those locations. ATL already does have them.
7. Some training for OBS personnel to do some items they do not do
8. Cleaning contracts for lay over cars.
9. It may be a few routes can actually use an extra section of a train for part of a route which means host RR cooperation.
10. Several terminals will need more storage tracks and maintenance space.
11. Legislation to get the host RRs to keep trains on time performance better. NS the worse is going to have to have that hammer over its head.
All this is moot with out more rolling stock and some cooperation from the various unions. There may be some room for part time workers that are callable during high traffic areas

 

[railiner]

In the past, when the F-40’s powered most trains, on some routes , if they exceeded a prescribed number of cars, they were required to add an additional engine. That would add a substantial operating expense, diminishing the return...

 

[Chatter163]

Thank you for the information.
It is too bad that they have these issues, because as you said, the marginal cost is intrinsically low. That is one of the big differences between airplanes and trains: If you have 90 people who need to fly on an 80 seat plane, you have to pay for two planes to do it. If you have 90 people who need to take an 80 seat train, you add another car, and it probably costs 10% more, just the price of additional fuel and prepping and cleaning a train car.

What is the source for the ten percent figure?

 

[Matthew H Fish]

What is the source for the ten percent figure?

Sorry, I should have said I was just talking in general terms. I don't know the specific figure, but I guess it is much lower than what it would be for an airline. If someone knows a real figure, I would be very happy to know.

 

[Qapla]

I would guess that the cost of adding car(s) to a train could vary depending on what the train consist is to start with. If there is enough power to feed additional cars it would be far less costly than having to add additional power units to carry the additional load. If the consist was balanced for the power available, just adding one extra car would require adding a power unit ... pushing the cost for one additional car disproportionate - it may even cost more than sending an additional plane from one place to another as was the conjecture in the previous post. Now, if there was already surplus power available the cost of an additional car would not be near as costly and would most likely cost less that a second plane.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

are cars available ???? answer is no, ..... so any other variables are non- starters ...

 

[west point]

are cars available ???? answer is no, ..... so any other variables are non- starters ...

Absolutely! Once more cars are available there are costs that have not been listed so far. Amtrak listed sometime in the past that operating costs for any car is about $4.00 / mile. That probably includes inspections, cleaning , and replacement of operating parts that wear out ? Not stated was if that also included the extra crew OBS and an assistant conductor if required ?

 

[fdaley]

Back in the late 1980s, when the Empire corridor trains were all unreserved, all of the trains except the Lake Shore were limited to a maximum of six cars. Many runs were covered by Turboliners that couldn't be made longer, but work rules were another factor. As I recall, for Amfleet trains, an additional crew member was needed if a seventh car was added. Fares between any city pair were the same on any train except Friday and Sunday afternoons. The Maple Leaf, as the first train of the day heading north/west from New York, was getting slammed on Saturday mornings, with people standing in the aisles to at least Hudson, 114 miles up the river, but Amtrak was reluctant to pay for the extra crew member needed to lengthen the train. Eventually they relented, and the Maple Leaf began showing up with nine cars. I am guessing this was the next increment beyond which yet another crew member would be needed. Since the switch to all-reserved seating and the advent of multiple fare buckets on each run, the Empire trains all went back to a maximum of six cars.

So, crew costs are a factor. But as others have noted, lack of equipment has been the major reason Amtrak consists seldom vary in length. Particularly on the long-haul routes, for the past 25 years they've barely had enough equipment to maintain the existing service levels and consists, so the company has instead focused on how to effectively ration the available space and maximize revenue from it.

 

[Thirdrail7]

This thread has spiraled into no man's land and odd opinions devoid of facts (particularly in West Point's list) so allow me to steer this towards the topic as opposed to a trip down memory lane.

The OP's premise is not aligned with the current practice. Specifically:

For Amtrak's long distance routes, I imagine they can have a variable number of cars. As more people buy tickets, they add more cars. They also add more staff, I imagine.

Under the current system devised by the current regime, the vast majority of trains have returned to fixed, seasonal based consists. So, you will not typically see variable consists. It is extremely rare to see the trains deviate from the plan as it allegedly optimizes costs and utilization. If the train sells out, it sells out.

There are a few exceptions (there are trains that have a base consist and standby equipment already programmed) and generally, if there is a "blip" on the horizon, equipment is identified at the location that will make up the initial consist with instructions for it to be added if necessary. The decision to add the equipment can happen on the day of departure and it can happen days prior to departure.

 

[dogbert617]

Platform length matters more at the terminal stations. At the intermediate stops, a long train can double-stop at a short platform. When the Lake Shore regularly ran with 13-14 cars west of Albany in the late '80s and early '90s, I can remember it double-stopping or even triple-stopping at smaller stations with short platforms, like Bryan OH.

If you ever ride the Empire Builder in the summer, as I did last June and July 2019, they definitely do some double stops for those who have a sleeper and get on/off the train in the smaller cities and towns along the EB's route. For example, I remember they did one in Williston, ND, and I think there were a few other stops(forget the others) where this was also done. Also the coach car attendant I talked to going west on #7/27(she was assigned to work out of Portland, btw) said the only stations long enough to handle all 10-11 cars with a door open(IIRC) were Saint Paul, Minot, and Portland. She noted to me in Chicago, that one of the cars barely couldn't fit the platform in Chicago(the easternmost of all the southern platforms at Chicago Union Station, I forget the exact track number myself).

 

[PaulM]

We were able to have our own car on the STL-KCY Ride because AU ( Alan B. and Anthony)had connections with Amtrak.( There was a Better Schedule on the River Runners then that allowed a same day turn in KC with more time to eat and site see.)

On the return trip that night we shared a Car with a Hurd of Drunks, er Celebrants, that were attending an Annual Festival @ the State Fairgrounds in Sedalia.

Are you sure that wasn't drunks from the Herman Octoberfest? I boarded that day in Jeff City and recall meeting yourself on the platform and Alan B on the train. It took forever to get off the platform to the parking lot in Herman because of all the drunks.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Are you sure that wasn't drunks from the Herman Octoberfest? I boarded that day in Jeff City and recall meeting yourself on the platform and Alan B on the train. It took forever to get off the platform to the parking lot in Herman because of all the drunks.

Opps,You're right Paul! When you reach a certain age, your Memory plays tricks on you!