how much different were the "good old days"?

[user 1215]

I was born nearly exactly 1 year after the formation of Amtrak. In 1972, my parents took me as a baby from Ft Worth to Oklahoma City. Don't know who did that, but I think it was still the Santa Fe...

 

[rrdude]

Early 60's were not the best time to ride the NYC or the Pennsy, but once west of Chicago, train travel was still "Special". I concur about spending "all day" in the dome cars, (plus as kids, mom like the carpeting there) front view, rear view, just not the same with Amtrak's lounge cars. Meals always tended to be better "overall". But I think (hope) we have all had the experience of a really good meal on Amtrak. (My vote goes to Auto-Train for the top-spot)

When I worked OBS in 78, 79, 80, and 81 Amtrak went thru all kinds of hell when it came to the diner. "Modified Meal Service" was what I think they called it. I soon jumped up to LSA after a couple of summers in the diners. Broadway even had a short period of time when they offered "Soverign Service", in the double-lounge car. A lot of us did out best, given the Amtrak restrictions. I remember going out in Cheyenne, and buying carnations from a local florist, cause I just couldn't stand the fact that Amtrak found it acceptable to remove fresh flowers. I did that a LOT that summer. Some old-heads thought I was nuts, in fact most of them did, but hey, carnations were cheap!

Best meals I EVER had were ones that the chef would cook "just for the crew". I was lucky enuff to accompany chef to the out door markets in LA a few times, (when the train crew had well over 24 hrs layover) and the crew would all pitch in $5-10-15 bucks each,. Chef made fresh pork roast, bread pudding, anything he wanted, but we had to wait til the pax were gone and the diner was empty. Poor crew who didn't kick in $$ had to eat the "regular" food. (which was still damn good, just got monotonous after a while.....)

 

[J-1 3235]

Thanks to all for sharing your memories of train travel. For those of us who missed out, your stories allow us ride along with you

Regards,

Mike

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.

 

[Palmland]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.

Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.

So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .

PRR bashing is always fun, especially to show all the 'youngsters' it wasn't always nirvanna pre Amtrak. Growing up in the 50's I often went to Philly and occasionally NYC from Wilmington, De with my parents. Having a choice of the B&O or PRR, we always took the B&O even though it was slower. Service on board was so much better. The B&O had wonderful food and the employees were the friendliest around. While the equipment was older, it was always well maintained -everything worked. The PRR employees were viewed as cold and only doing what was required.

The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains. This was also true on long distance routes. There was no comparison between PRR"s Cincinnati Ltd. and B&O's National Limited to Cincinnati. Of course both roads ran their trains on time. I guess this shows that what really makes a memorable trip (and makes you want to take another) is the quality of on board service.

 

[GG-1]

The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains.

Aloha

Well I remember the aceleration when being behind a G was special to a 6/7 year old oh so long ago.

Mahalo

Eric

 

[zephyr17]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.

Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.

So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .

PRR bashing is always fun, especially to show all the 'youngsters' it wasn't always nirvanna pre Amtrak. Growing up in the 50's I often went to Philly and occasionally NYC from Wilmington, De with my parents. Having a choice of the B&O or PRR, we always took the B&O even though it was slower. Service on board was so much better. The B&O had wonderful food and the employees were the friendliest around. While the equipment was older, it was always well maintained -everything worked. The PRR employees were viewed as cold and only doing what was required.

The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains. This was also true on long distance routes. There was no comparison between PRR"s Cincinnati Ltd. and B&O's National Limited to Cincinnati. Of course both roads ran their trains on time. I guess this shows that what really makes a memorable trip (and makes you want to take another) is the quality of on board service.

Lucikly all my pre-Amtrak travel was in the West, and mostly on Santa Fe. And Santa Fe ran great trains -- even the San Diegan. SP was the "bad" RR out here, and I rode the Coast Daylight a couple of times, complete with the infamous automat. The train was clean and on time, though. I remember being pretty happy when the diner was restored about 6 months after Amtrak took over.

 

[JayPea]

I took a couple of pre-Amtrak trips, in 1963 when I was three, and again in 1965, when I was five. Both were round trips from Spokane to Chicago and back. In 1963, I took the North Coast Limited and 1965, the Empire Builder. I don't remember the 1963 trip, but I remember in 1965 riding most of the way, both directions, with my sister in the Vista Dome. My mom stayed downstairs, napping. Mom got to nap without us in her hair and we got to have fun without her watchful eye over us. Talk about the best of both worlds! :lol: How I wish they were still in operation! There's nothing like being able to see in both directions over the top of the train. Today's SSLs pale in comparison, in my opinion. I can still remember, on the return trip to Spokane, seeing the mountains of Western Montana long before we reached them. I guess it's an indication of how my mind works that I also remember falling down the stairs of the dome car and also seeing most of the train ahead of me as we rounded a curve in Glacier Park...and seeing the train hit a squirrel. :blink:

If I recall, though, the train was late, at least back into Spokane. I do recall the silver and linens the EB used in the dining car as well.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Quality of Service and dining car food often endeared regular customers to passenger trains of a specific railroad. Railroad Dining Cars often had a signature dish such as Baked Potatoes on the NP, Texas grilled steaks on the MP/T&P, TN Country Ham on the L&N, corn muffins on the PRR, grilled rainbow trout on the California Zephyrs and more that I can't think of. Many people viewed dining car meals as over priced, but they were quite reasonable considering all the food you were served. A Dinner usually included soup, salad, entree with starch and vegetable and dessert. Appetizers were available for an additional cost. The menus were much more varied than Amtrak's offerings. I often wondered how they managed to store all the various food. It was also unsual for the dining cars to run out of food like they do now. Railroad Management personnel often rode the trains and ate in the dining car. I think if the California Zephyr or similar blue ribbon train had run out of food, someone would have been in trouble.

 

[henryj]

So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.

Via's Canadian IS the good old days. Anyone that hasn't experienced it needs to before it's gone. Remember, nothing lasts forever.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Quality of Service and dining car food often endeared regular customers to passenger trains of a specific railroad. Railroad Dining Cars often had a signature dish such as Baked Potatoes on the NP, Texas grilled steaks on the MP/T&P, TN Country Ham on the L&N, corn muffins on the PRR, grilled rainbow trout on the California Zephyrs and more that I can't think of. Many people viewed dining car meals as over priced, but they were quite reasonable considering all the food you were served. A Dinner usually included soup, salad, entree with starch and vegetable and dessert. Appetizers were available for an additional cost. The menus were much more varied than Amtrak's offerings. I often wondered how they managed to store all the various food. It was also unsual for the dining cars to run out of food like they do now. Railroad Management personnel often rode the trains and ate in the dining car. I think if the California Zephyr or similar blue ribbon train had run out of food, someone would have been in trouble.

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL. Also the Gulf Coast Seafood Platter on the L&N.

Also there was a chef named Lewis Price who created breakfast rolls every morning from scratch on the Southern Crescent. He was featured in ads, face and name. Tragically he died one morning when the northbound jumped the tracks in Virginia. He was the only casualty. He was getting breakfast ready.

A good book to look for is "Dinner in the Diner" by Will C. Hollister, Trans-Anglo books,copyright MCMLXV,

It shows recipes , sometimes several,from about 20 representative lines around the country. One can probably find it on line somewhere.

 

[jis]

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

 

[had8ley]

My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.

The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.

Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly

My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.

It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.

Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.

So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .

PRR bashing is always fun, especially to show all the 'youngsters' it wasn't always nirvanna pre Amtrak. Growing up in the 50's I often went to Philly and occasionally NYC from Wilmington, De with my parents. Having a choice of the B&O or PRR, we always took the B&O even though it was slower. Service on board was so much better. The B&O had wonderful food and the employees were the friendliest around. While the equipment was older, it was always well maintained -everything worked. The PRR employees were viewed as cold and only doing what was required.

The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains. This was also true on long distance routes. There was no comparison between PRR"s Cincinnati Ltd. and B&O's National Limited to Cincinnati. Of course both roads ran their trains on time. I guess this shows that what really makes a memorable trip (and makes you want to take another) is the quality of on board service.

Nothing special? This kiddo loved to board the Boston-Washington thru trains in the late '50's. They were almost as nice as the Merchant's Ltd. or the Yankee Clipper. The New Haven/Pennsy ran a parlor buffet lounge car which had a day drawing room that my grandfather always booked. The parlor car porter (used that name at the time) would squeeze me a fresh orangeade for all of about 15 cents. You couldn't eat all the food in the diners whether it be breakfast, lunch or dinner. The New Haven even served fresh shucked oysters in its diners~ how many Amtrak chefs would volunteer to shuck oysters today?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not

resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.

The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.

It was:

Manhattan or martini cocktail

appetizers

fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers

13 ounce bottle of imported wine

fish

charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices

potato and vegetable

a special salad created by the waiter

dinner bread

heady cheese with fresh apple wedges

toasted saltines

coffee

a choice of liqueurs

The price in 1965 wss $9.85

And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.

It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.

By November, the condition of the IC main was determined not to be in condition to allow for the speeds needed to run the CONO on its day schedule. Amtrak changed things around at that point. The trains schedule was moved to an overnight one and the train was renamed the Panama Limited. The relaunch, as it was, attempted to gain publicity and for a short time a mockery of the Kings Dinner was even available. It ran with a baggage, a buffet-dorm, coaches, a diner, a one or more sleepers, and a sleeper lounge, usually an observation.

Like all Amtrak trains, though, it quickly lost services and amenities, and eventually had coaches, a counter-diner, a single 10-6, and a baggage dorm. In '73 the train lost even that 10-6 and was just an overnight coach train with a lounge car. It 1974 heralded the return of the sleeper and a rename in response to the popularity of Arlo Guthrie's version of the song, thenceforth the train has been known as the City of New Orleans.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Now I could well handle the King's Dinner, but would much rather have a cold beer in place of the Martini That would make for a good night's sleep digesting that bad boy!

 

[Bob Dylan]

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not

resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.

The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.

It was:

Manhattan or martini cocktail

appetizers

fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers

13 ounce bottle of imported wine

fish

charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices

potato and vegetable

a special salad created by the waiter

dinner bread

heady cheese with fresh apple wedges

toasted saltines

coffee

a choice of liqueurs

The price in 1965 wss $9.85

And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.

It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not

resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.

The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.

It was:

Manhattan or martini cocktail

appetizers

fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers

13 ounce bottle of imported wine

fish

charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices

potato and vegetable

a special salad created by the waiter

dinner bread

heady cheese with fresh apple wedges

toasted saltines

coffee

a choice of liqueurs

The price in 1965 wss $9.85

And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.

It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.

By November, the condition of the IC main was determined not to be in condition to allow for the speeds needed to run the CONO on its day schedule. Amtrak changed things around at that point. The trains schedule was moved to an overnight one and the train was renamed the Panama Limited. The relaunch, as it was, attempted to gain publicity and for a short time a mockery of the Kings Dinner was even available. It ran with a baggage, a buffet-dorm, coaches, a diner, a one or more sleepers, and a sleeper lounge, usually an observation.

Like all Amtrak trains, though, it quickly lost services and amenities, and eventually had coaches, a counter-diner, a single 10-6, and a baggage dorm. In '73 the train lost even that 10-6 and was just an overnight coach train with a lounge car. It 1974 heralded the return of the sleeper and a rename in response to the popularity of Arlo Guthrie's version of the song, thenceforth the train has been known as the City of New Orleans.

Yeah, I should not depend so much on my memories. I got it wrong about the schedule overnight vs daytime.I have deleted the word "overnight". Thanks for the expanded info about its history.

For me I have some warm glow memories of both de lux matching colors (brown and orange) streamliners when my sister lived in Memphis about 1958-62. I speak of matching cars because even cars borrowed from other lines were usually re-painted IC colors, this for the City of Miami as well as these.

As for the City of NOL I thought the train was still about seven cars long since that was the way it was built. Instead here it came growling along down the edge of the clift of that park in downtown Memphis about 21 cars long. Beautiful, matching cars. What a thrill. Especially since I was not expecting it. It was my first visit to that park and I had not yet even noticed that there were railroad tracks down there.

As to the Panama Ltd, I convinced my father to drive us to the station to see the northbound about 10-11 p.m. I saw my first dome car on that train. Did not ride it,just my first to see. The porter let me go upstairs and walk around in it. I waved to my father below. My first dome to ride was to be on the Texas Eagle.

I admired how adroitly and how swiflty they switched cars on and off in Memphis.

For all my fascination with set out sleepers, I have actually only used those twice, once each direction between CHI and MEM on the Panama Ltd.

I have read that one time President Wayne Johnson of the IC could see the trains arrive and depart from his office at IC Station CHI. Seems if the Panama was as much as one minute late he was on the horn demanding to know why. I have read this a number of times.

 

[como]

I'm and only child, my parent's did not like to drive on long trips, and all of my relatives lived at least 600 miles away,so most of our family trips were on the train. Between 1960 and 1970 we took yearly trips between Denver and Alabama or Denver and the east coast. We almost always went through Chicago.

Good things: food, Vista Domes, the chocolate orange sticks that they gave out at the end of meals on the Denver Zephyr, the bus that ran between stations in Chicago, and in Chicago between trains - going to the Field Museum on the way out and the Museum of Science and Industry on the way back.

Bad things: Riding on the L&N's Hummingbird when it was 12 hours late with no diner. Seeing the still segregated waiting room in Birmingham when I was 5 or 6 and my dad telling me about how he and his friends would have to sit behind a curtain in the diner when they would take the train during college.

But what is great is that Denver Union Station looks exactly like it did when I was growing up.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not

resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.

The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.

It was:

Manhattan or martini cocktail

appetizers

fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers

13 ounce bottle of imported wine

fish

charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices

potato and vegetable

a special salad created by the waiter

dinner bread

heady cheese with fresh apple wedges

toasted saltines

coffee

a choice of liqueurs

The price in 1965 wss $9.85

And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.

It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

It sounds like a great a meal and according to an Inflation Calculator I used 1955 as the year What cost $9.95 in 1955 would cost $79.15 in 2008.

 

[jmbgeg]

A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.

I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not

resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.

The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.

It was:

Manhattan or martini cocktail

appetizers

fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers

13 ounce bottle of imported wine

fish

charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices

potato and vegetable

a special salad created by the waiter

dinner bread

heady cheese with fresh apple wedges

toasted saltines

coffee

a choice of liqueurs

The price in 1965 wss $9.85

And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.

It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That menu reminds me of the best days of Alaska Airlines in the early 1990's. I was flying about 50k miles per year including 2-3 trips per year Seattle-Anchorage for about three years. The food that Alaska served in domestic first class to anchorage rivaled what you might see in international first class on the best of the airlines. Of course, that has long ago changed with the realties of the airline markets.

 

[espeefoamer]

The longest train train ride I took before Amtrak was on the San Joaquin and Coast Daylights in 1961,when I was 9. This was before the dreaded Automats,so we had a real diner,which was probably a Coffee Shop car. I remember having pancakes for breakfast on the San Joaquin Daylight. At this time the whole train was painted in the Daylight scheme except for some head end cars and the diner.I spent a lot of time in the dome car,including going around the loop.My grandfather took movies of our train at the horseshoe curve at Caliente,and we had an A-B-A set of PAs. I remember eating dinner running along the Sacramento River.We had a Parlor car on the Coast Daylight returning home,but that day the full parlor was the first car in the train instead of being next to the parlor observation. With the train being 20 cars long I couldn't talk my grandparents into taking me back to the obs. Lunch was memerable because as the train rounded a curve,my little brother dumped his root beer into my hamburger. The waiter then had to get me another one. When we got back to LA. we had dinner at the Harvey House. I had a hamburger. The Coast daylight was in solid Daylight paint except for the power.

In 1978, I rode the Southern Crescent(before Amtrak took it over) from New Orleans to Washington then on the through coach to NYP. This train was a lot nicer than anything have ridden on Amtrak. I upgraded to a roomette between Atlanta and Washington. For dinner I had the prime rib with parsley potatoes and lemon merangue pie,called lemon icebox pie on the menu. This was the best meal I have ever eaten on a train.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

For anyone who finds themselves wanting more info on the past I have some suggestions. Try to find an Official Guide to the Railways. I have several of them but the the one my desk for quick reference is dated September 1957. It has 1489 pages. My current Amtrak timetable has 114 pages. So that gives you some idea.

I would recommend a Guide from the 50's. Not so much into the 60's because as you will have noticed from several posters, tihngs started to get bad in the 60's, trains discontinued or gotten shorter,less interesting consists, etc. Also slower in a lot of cases: the mess Amtrak inherited.

OF course you might also look for timetables of individual railroads.

Where to look? Well, of course on line, e bay, etc. Most of you will immediately think of that. But that is not all. If you receive TRAINS Magazine or anything like that check the classified listis in the back for train shows, railroadiana, et. Check your local paper for ads. A lot of times they will call themselves Model Railroad Shows but even those often have timetables and such.

Good luck!

 

[had8ley]

Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.

When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.

At the end of the City's IC run it had a coach lounge which was cut off in Jackson, MS on the southbound and picked up by the northbounder. One of the major factors in re-naming the Panama the City was a big public relations push by the City of New Orleans itself. I have a file with all the newspaper clippings.