My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.
The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.
Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly
My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.
It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.
Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.
So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .
AlohaThe PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains.
Lucikly all my pre-Amtrak travel was in the West, and mostly on Santa Fe. And Santa Fe ran great trains -- even the San Diegan. SP was the "bad" RR out here, and I rode the Coast Daylight a couple of times, complete with the infamous automat. The train was clean and on time, though. I remember being pretty happy when the diner was restored about 6 months after Amtrak took over.My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.
The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.
Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly
My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.
It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.
Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.
So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .
PRR bashing is always fun, especially to show all the 'youngsters' it wasn't always nirvanna pre Amtrak. Growing up in the 50's I often went to Philly and occasionally NYC from Wilmington, De with my parents. Having a choice of the B&O or PRR, we always took the B&O even though it was slower. Service on board was so much better. The B&O had wonderful food and the employees were the friendliest around. While the equipment was older, it was always well maintained -everything worked. The PRR employees were viewed as cold and only doing what was required.
The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains. This was also true on long distance routes. There was no comparison between PRR"s Cincinnati Ltd. and B&O's National Limited to Cincinnati. Of course both roads ran their trains on time. I guess this shows that what really makes a memorable trip (and makes you want to take another) is the quality of on board service.
Via's Canadian IS the good old days. Anyone that hasn't experienced it needs to before it's gone. Remember, nothing lasts forever.So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.
A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL. Also the Gulf Coast Seafood Platter on the L&N.Quality of Service and dining car food often endeared regular customers to passenger trains of a specific railroad. Railroad Dining Cars often had a signature dish such as Baked Potatoes on the NP, Texas grilled steaks on the MP/T&P, TN Country Ham on the L&N, corn muffins on the PRR, grilled rainbow trout on the California Zephyrs and more that I can't think of. Many people viewed dining car meals as over priced, but they were quite reasonable considering all the food you were served. A Dinner usually included soup, salad, entree with starch and vegetable and dessert. Appetizers were available for an additional cost. The menus were much more varied than Amtrak's offerings. I often wondered how they managed to store all the various food. It was also unsual for the dining cars to run out of food like they do now. Railroad Management personnel often rode the trains and ate in the dining car. I think if the California Zephyr or similar blue ribbon train had run out of food, someone would have been in trouble.
I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
Nothing special? This kiddo loved to board the Boston-Washington thru trains in the late '50's. They were almost as nice as the Merchant's Ltd. or the Yankee Clipper. The New Haven/Pennsy ran a parlor buffet lounge car which had a day drawing room that my grandfather always booked. The parlor car porter (used that name at the time) would squeeze me a fresh orangeade for all of about 15 cents. You couldn't eat all the food in the diners whether it be breakfast, lunch or dinner. The New Haven even served fresh shucked oysters in its diners~ how many Amtrak chefs would volunteer to shuck oysters today?My only pre-Amtrak experience of riding rails in the US was in 1965-66 on a trip from Boston to New York and then on to Washington DC and back to Boston. The specific trains were, the Senator (NH) from Boston to New York, the Congressional (PRR) from New York to Washington and then the Senator back from Washington to Boston, all in Coach.
Sad to say though the experience on that trip was not something that caused me to believe that railroad passenger service was doing good in 1965-66 in the US. The air conditioners in half the train did not work (the open Dutch windows as a feeble attempt to reduce the oppressive heat in the cars was at least a bit of fun though). They were consistently late. Pennsylvania Station was in the process of being torn down and was a phenomenal mess. On the east end of New Haven (around where the Acela does 150 now) there were long stretches of main line track with hardly any ballast to be seen, with the train doing a fine roller-coaster swaying ride! The commuter trains around New York looked like something out of the previous era even when compared to those less well off part of the world at that time. Frankly I couldn't believe that the greatest country in the world that I have always admired had their passenger railroad in such a hopelessly sorry state.
The redeeming features from the vantage point of a railfan were that the Boston train were pulled to New York by NH FL-9s. And of course the GG-1s from New York to Washington too.
Since then of course I have learned that 65-66 was getting pretty close to about the rock bottom that passenger railroading hit in this country before things started improving slowly
My next train ride in the US was on som NEC train by Coach from New York to Washington in 1979. And that was better in every possible way when compared to my experience on the NEC in 1965. The AC worked. The train was more or lesson time and the cars were nice and rode quite well, though with surprisingly small windows - yes I am talking of Amfleet I.
It is significant that you rode the Senator and the Congressional, as that relates to the decline in the 60's after the glorious 50's. That is because those very two trains were beautifully re equipped as stainless steel streamliners in the mid 50's. Tht was quite an honour since that corrider service had kind of a sameness to it and one train did not necessarily stand out that much. But these two did----for awhile, that is-----.They were fully equal, though without sleepers, to the Silver Meteor or almost anything else, for a few years that is.They were advertised in the National Geogaphic, for instance.
Another sad story also relates to the PRR. One night the passengers on the Spirit of St.Louis had had enough. They sat down on the tracks in front of the locomotive so the train could not move until the air or the heat or the water of whatever it was got fixed. That was in national headlnes.The saddest thing is that the Spirit of St. Louis had been one of Pennsy's streamlined finest, just like the two above.
So you have to be very careful painting with strokes that are too broad about the past and the present. So much to be said all the way around. .
PRR bashing is always fun, especially to show all the 'youngsters' it wasn't always nirvanna pre Amtrak. Growing up in the 50's I often went to Philly and occasionally NYC from Wilmington, De with my parents. Having a choice of the B&O or PRR, we always took the B&O even though it was slower. Service on board was so much better. The B&O had wonderful food and the employees were the friendliest around. While the equipment was older, it was always well maintained -everything worked. The PRR employees were viewed as cold and only doing what was required.
The PRR may have been efficient, but nothing special about a ride on one of their trains. This was also true on long distance routes. There was no comparison between PRR"s Cincinnati Ltd. and B&O's National Limited to Cincinnati. Of course both roads ran their trains on time. I guess this shows that what really makes a memorable trip (and makes you want to take another) is the quality of on board service.
Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.
My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not
resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.
The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.
It was:
Manhattan or martini cocktail
appetizers
fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers
13 ounce bottle of imported wine
fish
charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices
potato and vegetable
a special salad created by the waiter
dinner bread
heady cheese with fresh apple wedges
toasted saltines
coffee
a choice of liqueurs
The price in 1965 wss $9.85
And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.
It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.
That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not
resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.
The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.
It was:
Manhattan or martini cocktail
appetizers
fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers
13 ounce bottle of imported wine
fish
charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices
potato and vegetable
a special salad created by the waiter
dinner bread
heady cheese with fresh apple wedges
toasted saltines
coffee
a choice of liqueurs
The price in 1965 wss $9.85
And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.
It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.![]()
When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.
By November, the condition of the IC main was determined not to be in condition to allow for the speeds needed to run the CONO on its day schedule. Amtrak changed things around at that point. The trains schedule was moved to an overnight one and the train was renamed the Panama Limited. The relaunch, as it was, attempted to gain publicity and for a short time a mockery of the Kings Dinner was even available. It ran with a baggage, a buffet-dorm, coaches, a diner, a one or more sleepers, and a sleeper lounge, usually an observation.
Like all Amtrak trains, though, it quickly lost services and amenities, and eventually had coaches, a counter-diner, a single 10-6, and a baggage dorm. In '73 the train lost even that 10-6 and was just an overnight coach train with a lounge car. It 1974 heralded the return of the sleeper and a rename in response to the popularity of Arlo Guthrie's version of the song, thenceforth the train has been known as the City of New Orleans.
It sounds like a great a meal and according to an Inflation Calculator I used 1955 as the year What cost $9.95 in 1955 would cost $79.15 in 2008.That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not
resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.
The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.
It was:
Manhattan or martini cocktail
appetizers
fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers
13 ounce bottle of imported wine
fish
charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices
potato and vegetable
a special salad created by the waiter
dinner bread
heady cheese with fresh apple wedges
toasted saltines
coffee
a choice of liqueurs
The price in 1965 wss $9.85
And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.
It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.![]()
That menu reminds me of the best days of Alaska Airlines in the early 1990's. I was flying about 50k miles per year including 2-3 trips per year Seattle-Anchorage for about three years. The food that Alaska served in domestic first class to anchorage rivaled what you might see in international first class on the best of the airlines. Of course, that has long ago changed with the realties of the airline markets.My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.I believe Amtrak also called its CHI - NOL train Panama Limited for a while in the early days.A couple more I can remember is the King's Dinner, (seafood and steak) on the Panama Limited, the luxury 16 hour pullman and parlor car train overnight from CHI to NOL.
In the pre-Amtrak past however, the Panama LTD was the fast overnighter, the CONO was a very fast day train,not
resembling the train in the song very much at all.Plus there were other trains. A train called the Louisane had a schedule much like today's schedule.
The "Dinner in the Diner" book I noted earlier shows what went into the "King's Dinner" on the Panama Limited.
It was:
Manhattan or martini cocktail
appetizers
fresh gulf shrimp cocktail or crab finers
13 ounce bottle of imported wine
fish
charcoal broiled boneless sirloin steak with buttered mushroom slices
potato and vegetable
a special salad created by the waiter
dinner bread
heady cheese with fresh apple wedges
toasted saltines
coffee
a choice of liqueurs
The price in 1965 wss $9.85
And no,if anybody wonders, no, I never ordered this meal.
It was the brainchild of a guy from Arkansas named Charles Gibson who became assciated with dining car service in 1935 and began working on the Illinois Central as a waiter in 1940.![]()
At the end of the City's IC run it had a coach lounge which was cut off in Jackson, MS on the southbound and picked up by the northbounder. One of the major factors in re-naming the Panama the City was a big public relations push by the City of New Orleans itself. I have a file with all the newspaper clippings.When Amtrak assumed service, they chose to continue the City of New Orleans of the available trains on that mandated routing. It initially ran 5/1/71 on exactly the same schedule it ran 4/31/71. It slowed down four days later with inclusion of a bunch of local stops the City never served, but was not an over night train. It carried a baggage, coaches, a diner, and initially a parlour car which it quickly lost.Yes, there has been some flip flopping with the names. When Amtrak first began they had the one overnight train and called it the CONO. Then for a few years they called it the Panama Limited, then switch back to CONO as it has been for most of Amtrak history.Today's train is somewhat slower than these two in the past.