how much different were the "good old days"?

[jis]

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

Just as a data point $9.85 of 1935 inflation adjusted is equivalent to $152.98 in 2008.

 

[frj1983]

So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.

I can only speak about the trip I took in the Fall of 1988.

I boarded the Canadian in Vancouver BC and rode it all the way to Montreal. yes, it went to Montreal...the train split in two at Sudbury and part of it went to Toronto and part of it to Montreal...sort of like the Empire Builder split in Spokane. The food was great (although I had to pay for it, even when I had a sleeper. Does anyone know if food is included in the Via sleeper price today?). The sights were marvelous (riding through the Spiral Tunnels was awesome!), Lake Louise, Banff, Winnipeg. I must have gone through 6 rolls of film, and the On-Board service was excellent. I was one of only a few americans on board that trip, it was mostly people from Germany and England (two huge two groups).

I do remember, however, that some of the budd cars were looking a little shabby (on the inside) and Via had double-booked my sleeper, but the problem was worked out to everyone's satisfaction. The crazy thing is that the trip only cost me about $500!!! I don't think you can even go coach on Via for that distance/amount today. I still fondly recall that trip!

 

[MrFSS]

So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.

I can only speak about the trip I took in the Fall of 1988.

I boarded the Canadian in Vancouver BC and rode it all the way to Montreal. yes, it went to Montreal...the train split in two at Sudbury and part of it went to Toronto and part of it to Montreal...sort of like the Empire Builder split in Spokane. The food was great (although I had to pay for it, even when I had a sleeper. Does anyone know if food is included in the Via sleeper price today?). The sights were marvelous (riding through the Spiral Tunnels was awesome!), Lake Louise, Banff, Winnipeg. I must have gone through 6 rolls of film, and the On-Board service was excellent. I was one of only a few americans on board that trip, it was mostly people from Germany and England (two huge two groups).

I do remember, however, that some of the budd cars were looking a little shabby (on the inside) and Via had double-booked my sleeper, but the problem was worked out to everyone's satisfaction. The crazy thing is that the trip only cost me about $500!!! I don't think you can even go coach on Via for that distance/amount today. I still fondly recall that trip!

Things have changed with The Canadian now days. Meals are included with the sleeper ticket. But, no more spiral tunnels , Lake Louise or Banff. It goes much further north through Jasper. And, of course, not direct to Montreal. Change required in Toronto.

 

[Larry H.]

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

Just as a data point $9.85 of 1935 inflation adjusted is equivalent to $152.98 in 2008.

We had that dinner on one trip on the Panama Limited. It was towards the end of the period where they offered that meal. As I recall you had to ask for it rather than having it actually on the menu but could be wrong about that. At least I think when we had it you had to ask. I related once before that the waiter actually ask if we really wanted to purchase it, like maybe we couldn't afford it?

Lots of interesting observations here about the old days. I was lucky enough to get in on some of it around 1960. By then some things were starting to slip rather badly on railroads that were more aggressive about dropping service. The wabash stands out as one and latter the Union Pacific began to ignore repairs that were starting to be needed. But if you were lucky and rode the Empire Builder, or The Santa Fe you would have had a lot different picture. Even the GM&O was trying to maintain a form or decent service beyond what many others did.

So many references to what railroads were like in the old days get flavored by poor experiences that were common towards the end of the era. Yet when one encounter a railroad that still cared they made Amtrak look like the ones that didn't.

Yes the cars may look similar on the outside, but as we all know by almost anything we buy today, the quality is gone in most products. You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper. It almost seems like the last time anyone actually carried my bags to our room was in the Pullman days. Today your on your own most of the time and up a steep winding set of stairs besides. Shoes were shined as a routine service. A brush came out and your clothes were brushed off as you left the car. Seats always had "Pullman" head rest cloths on the seat backs. Cars were solid and windows were shiny, no dirt in the corners, no torn seats that never get fixed, curtains worked and fit properly. And the porter was always available, you didn't have to spend an hour trying to find them or worse. Toilets flushed. (that seemed so basic then).

When one sees the glamor of the Pacific Parlor car think how nice it would be if the same thoughtful decor were spread though out the train. That is how a well designed train of the past looked. Wonderful overstuffed mohair sofas and arm chairs in the lounges. Lamps on small tables between the seats, A desk with post cards for writing friends, book cases for passing the time reading if you wished. Trains like the Empire builder had wonderful murals painted on the walls even in the coaches and lounges. The whole train had western interior touches that made it a vacation from the time you stepped on board. The diner had etched glass panels that divided eating areas and the diners always had a focal point of a breakfront or large illuminated photos at the ends of the cars that gave it a elegant look.

The City trains, I rode the City of St. Louis mostly, were a beautiful gold color on the outside and featured dome dining, first class lounges, card rooms, and excellent food. One of the things I miss the most is the feeling that when your riding a name train it means something. Today it means "Nothing". You might as well be on any other train you just stepped off of. I doubt somehow that is going to change.

Another difference between the old days and now is that most trains that ran any distance carried a first class parlor car and diner, not some snack car with chips and soggy ham an cheese tossed at you over the counter. And yes, no trash bags dumped all over the cars. (who ever came up with that one should have lost their job long ago). Probably got a promotion at Amtrak.

Somehow to those who always seem so thrilled by the bare essentials service and cars of today I can only feel a bit sorry. Settling for less may be the way of the times, but it sure is nice to know it was, or could be better.

 

[creddick]

It has been said the 20th Century Limited was the best restaurant in New York City - until it left.

 

[had8ley]

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

Just as a data point $9.85 of 1935 inflation adjusted is equivalent to $152.98 in 2008.

We had that dinner on one trip on the Panama Limited. It was towards the end of the period where they offered that meal. As I recall you had to ask for it rather than having it actually on the menu but could be wrong about that. At least I think when we had it you had to ask. I related once before that the waiter actually ask if we really wanted to purchase it, like maybe we couldn't afford it?

Lots of interesting observations here about the old days. I was lucky enough to get in on some of it around 1960. By then some things were starting to slip rather badly on railroads that were more aggressive about dropping service. The wabash stands out as one and latter the Union Pacific began to ignore repairs that were starting to be needed. But if you were lucky and rode the Empire Builder, or The Santa Fe you would have had a lot different picture. Even the GM&O was trying to maintain a form or decent service beyond what many others did.

So many references to what railroads were like in the old days get flavored by poor experiences that were common towards the end of the era. Yet when one encounter a railroad that still cared they made Amtrak look like the ones that didn't.

Yes the cars may look similar on the outside, but as we all know by almost anything we buy today, the quality is gone in most products. You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper. It almost seems like the last time anyone actually carried my bags to our room was in the Pullman days. Today your on your own most of the time and up a steep winding set of stairs besides. Shoes were shined as a routine service. A brush came out and your clothes were brushed off as you left the car. Seats always had "Pullman" head rest cloths on the seat backs. Cars were solid and windows were shiny, no dirt in the corners, no torn seats that never get fixed, curtains worked and fit properly. And the porter was always available, you didn't have to spend an hour trying to find them or worse. Toilets flushed. (that seemed so basic then).

When one sees the glamor of the Pacific Parlor car think how nice it would be if the same thoughtful decor were spread though out the train. That is how a well designed train of the past looked. Wonderful overstuffed mohair sofas and arm chairs in the lounges. Lamps on small tables between the seats, A desk with post cards for writing friends, book cases for passing the time reading if you wished. Trains like the Empire builder had wonderful murals painted on the walls even in the coaches and lounges. The whole train had western interior touches that made it a vacation from the time you stepped on board. The diner had etched glass panels that divided eating areas and the diners always had a focal point of a breakfront or large illuminated photos at the ends of the cars that gave it a elegant look.

The City trains, I rode the City of St. Louis mostly, were a beautiful gold color on the outside and featured dome dining, first class lounges, card rooms, and excellent food. One of the things I miss the most is the feeling that when your riding a name train it means something. Today it means "Nothing". You might as well be on any other train you just stepped off of. I doubt somehow that is going to change.

Another difference between the old days and now is that most trains that ran any distance carried a first class parlor car and diner, not some snack car with chips and soggy ham an cheese tossed at you over the counter. And yes, no trash bags dumped all over the cars. (who ever came up with that one should have lost their job long ago). Probably got a promotion at Amtrak.

Somehow to those who always seem so thrilled by the bare essentials service and cars of today I can only feel a bit sorry. Settling for less may be the way of the times, but it sure is nice to know it was, or could be better.

Yes, life itself has changed drastically since the fab '50's and sexy 60's. Up until the early 90's I used Delta Airlines first class almost exclusively. I would route my family from Baton Rouge to Dallas to Atlanta to NYC. Reason being? You got a great hot breakfast out of Baton Rouge, (the airport even had a Crown Room and an Admiral's Club at one time), you were served a fabulous lunch out of Dallas, after a short water break in the Crown Room, and a steak out of Atlanta for dinner after you visited one of many Crown Rooms. They even made chocolate sundaes for dessert and Irish coffee en route. Now it's just like the King's Dinner...all we can do is remember how good it used to be. Now I'm waiting for some bean counter at Delta to put parking like coin meters on the pottys, that take debit cards, and make pay toilets out of them~ they've slammed just about every other amenity.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

 

[jphjaxfl]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

But Superliner Sleepers are not operated by The Pullman Company which is where the significant difference is.

 

[jphjaxfl]

My word!I knew the menu was special on some trains but this sounds like the Orient Express or what was probably served to the President when he still travled by train!Wonder what a menu like this would cost now days, maybe $200?

That was a special meal you could order for yourself. It woulda been about $70 todays money, I think.

Just as a data point $9.85 of 1935 inflation adjusted is equivalent to $152.98 in 2008.

We had that dinner on one trip on the Panama Limited. It was towards the end of the period where they offered that meal. As I recall you had to ask for it rather than having it actually on the menu but could be wrong about that. At least I think when we had it you had to ask. I related once before that the waiter actually ask if we really wanted to purchase it, like maybe we couldn't afford it?

Lots of interesting observations here about the old days. I was lucky enough to get in on some of it around 1960. By then some things were starting to slip rather badly on railroads that were more aggressive about dropping service. The wabash stands out as one and latter the Union Pacific began to ignore repairs that were starting to be needed. But if you were lucky and rode the Empire Builder, or The Santa Fe you would have had a lot different picture. Even the GM&O was trying to maintain a form or decent service beyond what many others did.

So many references to what railroads were like in the old days get flavored by poor experiences that were common towards the end of the era. Yet when one encounter a railroad that still cared they made Amtrak look like the ones that didn't.

Yes the cars may look similar on the outside, but as we all know by almost anything we buy today, the quality is gone in most products. You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper. It almost seems like the last time anyone actually carried my bags to our room was in the Pullman days. Today your on your own most of the time and up a steep winding set of stairs besides. Shoes were shined as a routine service. A brush came out and your clothes were brushed off as you left the car. Seats always had "Pullman" head rest cloths on the seat backs. Cars were solid and windows were shiny, no dirt in the corners, no torn seats that never get fixed, curtains worked and fit properly. And the porter was always available, you didn't have to spend an hour trying to find them or worse. Toilets flushed. (that seemed so basic then).

When one sees the glamor of the Pacific Parlor car think how nice it would be if the same thoughtful decor were spread though out the train. That is how a well designed train of the past looked. Wonderful overstuffed mohair sofas and arm chairs in the lounges. Lamps on small tables between the seats, A desk with post cards for writing friends, book cases for passing the time reading if you wished. Trains like the Empire builder had wonderful murals painted on the walls even in the coaches and lounges. The whole train had western interior touches that made it a vacation from the time you stepped on board. The diner had etched glass panels that divided eating areas and the diners always had a focal point of a breakfront or large illuminated photos at the ends of the cars that gave it a elegant look.

The City trains, I rode the City of St. Louis mostly, were a beautiful gold color on the outside and featured dome dining, first class lounges, card rooms, and excellent food. One of the things I miss the most is the feeling that when your riding a name train it means something. Today it means "Nothing". You might as well be on any other train you just stepped off of. I doubt somehow that is going to change.

Another difference between the old days and now is that most trains that ran any distance carried a first class parlor car and diner, not some snack car with chips and soggy ham an cheese tossed at you over the counter. And yes, no trash bags dumped all over the cars. (who ever came up with that one should have lost their job long ago). Probably got a promotion at Amtrak.

Somehow to those who always seem so thrilled by the bare essentials service and cars of today I can only feel a bit sorry. Settling for less may be the way of the times, but it sure is nice to know it was, or could be better.

I agree with you 100%. I remember riding the Abe Lincoln or the Limited between Chicago and St. Louis the year before Amtrak started with the nice swivel chair parlor cars and full dining cars. The trip time was just over 5 hours. but having a nice meal made the time go by so much more quickly. The Lincoln Service trains, even in business class can't even be compared to the pre Amtrak "Alton Route" trains.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

But Superliner Sleepers are not operated by The Pullman Company which is where the significant difference is.

The Pullman service company was dead 3 years before Amtrak started operating.

 

[jis]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

But Superliner Sleepers are not operated by The Pullman Company which is where the significant difference is.

The Pullman service company was dead 3 years before Amtrak started operating.

And from what I understand, NYC had terminated its contract with the Pullman Company for sleeper service sometime before then.

 

[jphjaxfl]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

But Superliner Sleepers are not operated by The Pullman Company which is where the significant difference is.

The Pullman service company was dead 3 years before Amtrak started operating.

I am aware of that, however, Employees of the Pullman Company were hired by the railroads that continued to offer Sleeping Car Service after 1968. I traveled frequently by sleeping car during that period and most of the time, the same Sleeping Car attendants were in the same Sleeping Car lines as before.

 

[Larry H.]

You can't really compare a Superliner sleeper to a Pullman sleeper.

Yeah. It is rather difficult to compare something with itself. Superliner Is are Pullman sleepers. They are the last cars Pullman-Standard built.

But Superliner Sleepers are not operated by The Pullman Company which is where the significant difference is.

The Pullman service company was dead 3 years before Amtrak started operating.

We tend to disagree a lot I think, still an age related thing I believe.. The same company may have built them but not to the same quality standard of the earlier designs as laid down by Pullman when they staffed and operated the cars. There was no duct tape necessary on Pullman cars. I know that seems hard to fathom. The design of the roomettes was superior in most ways other than perhaps the need to zip the curtain and move to the hall area to access the bed or toilet. But I would rather do that then have to get half dressed, worry about my valuables and then arrive a toilet that may or may not flush, and may also have a rather "sticky" floor from those who also have used the facilities. A roomette had a very handy sink and mirror design that seemed to belong rather than be stuck in the way as you enter your room as in the Viewliner design.

 

[henryj]

So how does VIA Rail's "Canadian" compare to the "good old days", because it certainly is a nice train.

I can only speak about the trip I took in the Fall of 1988.

I boarded the Canadian in Vancouver BC and rode it all the way to Montreal. yes, it went to Montreal...the train split in two at Sudbury and part of it went to Toronto and part of it to Montreal...sort of like the Empire Builder split in Spokane. The food was great (although I had to pay for it, even when I had a sleeper. Does anyone know if food is included in the Via sleeper price today?). The sights were marvelous (riding through the Spiral Tunnels was awesome!), Lake Louise, Banff, Winnipeg. I must have gone through 6 rolls of film, and the On-Board service was excellent. I was one of only a few americans on board that trip, it was mostly people from Germany and England (two huge two groups).

I do remember, however, that some of the budd cars were looking a little shabby (on the inside) and Via had double-booked my sleeper, but the problem was worked out to everyone's satisfaction. The crazy thing is that the trip only cost me about $500!!! I don't think you can even go coach on Via for that distance/amount today. I still fondly recall that trip!

Things have changed with The Canadian now days. Meals are included with the sleeper ticket. But, no more spiral tunnels , Lake Louise or Banff. It goes much further north through Jasper. And, of course, not direct to Montreal. Change required in Toronto.

I rode this train in May of 2008. It's as close to the 'good ol days' as you can get. All the equipments is from the 1950's "Canadian" and has been refurbished as of a few years ago. The train was some 21 cars long the day I rode it. Two coaches with their own cafe dome car. The rest was first class pullman sleepers with two diners and two dome lounge cars plus the 'Park' observation dome car. The sleepers have sections(who can remember those?), roomettes and bedrooms plus they have added a shower in place of one of the sections. These cars were configured as either 4(now three) sections, 4 bedrms & 8 roomettes or 4 sections, 6 bedrooms & 4 roomettes. Meals are included in the price and are excellent. They served complimentary champagne in the dome lounge several times. The trip for me was three days and nights from Toronto to Vancouver. I believe they have lengthend the schedule now and it's four nights and three days. If you want to experience the 'good old days' this is the train to ride. Do it before it's too late. It's the best train ride in North America. You should make your reservations well in advance as it is usually sold out. It only runs three times a week. Fares in the 'off' season are considerably cheaper.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

We tend to disagree a lot I think, still an age related thing I believe.. The same company may have built them but not to the same quality standard of the earlier designs as laid down by Pullman when they staffed and operated the cars. There was no duct tape necessary on Pullman cars. I know that seems hard to fathom. The design of the roomettes was superior in most ways other than perhaps the need to zip the curtain and move to the hall area to access the bed or toilet. But I would rather do that then have to get half dressed, worry about my valuables and then arrive a toilet that may or may not flush, and may also have a rather "sticky" floor from those who also have used the facilities. A roomette had a very handy sink and mirror design that seemed to belong rather than be stuck in the way as you enter your room as in the Viewliner design.

The Superliner was probably the best built and designed car Pullman built in 50 years. Pullman cars were considered in the industry, and were cheaper then, those built by arch-rival Budd. The break-up of Pullman-Standard and Pullman the operating company were a result of companies being sick of being forced to buy inferior-quality Pullman cars in-order to advertise Pullman service on their trains.

What you are looking at, Larry, is not a bad car. The Superliner is an exceptionally well made car, beautifully designed, and excellently executed. Its been 29 years since the Superliners were first put into service, and for most of those years the cars have been receiving nothing but the barest essentials in maintenance. Maintain a Yugo religiously and it will serve you well for many years and many hundreds of thousands of miles. Maintain a Rolls-Royce not at all and in 10-20k miles it will leave you stranded on the side of the road with a seized engine, having "failed to proceed."

If Amtrak properly maintains those Superliners, it will be on the road long after you are gone. Don't confuse bad maintenance and spartan service with a bad car.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

[ Fares in the 'off' season are considerably cheaper.

That they are, I rode it in February of 2007 from Vancouver to Toronto. I had a bedroom in a Manor series Sleeper.

The consist during the winter is much shorter,

Baggage

Coach

Skyline Dome (only visited this car once, as the sleepers have their own dome)

Dining

Manor Sleeper

Chatuae Sleeper

Manor Sleeper

Park Car (Strathcona Park)

 

[whistler]

IThe crazy thing is that the trip only cost me about $500!!! I don't think you can even go coach on Via for that distance/amount today. I still fondly recall that trip!

Vancouver to Toronto, and verse visa, due to the short lived strike was $221(USD give or take) for coach after the 60% sale/discount.

I don't remember the "good old days" of train travel in the early 60's. Although my mother does say she took me and my younger brother from the Rochester NY area(Canandaiqua) to Brooklyn by train to visit her parents.