Hypothetical High Platform Superliner Replacements

[John819]

Probably the most cost effective / speedy solution for Superliner replacement would be to have Siemens run variants of the Venture designed to replace the Amfleet I on the NEC:

A coach car along the lines of the Amfleet II;
A cafe car (perhaps just extending the run of those for the NEC);
A diner; and
A sleeper.

Optional would be some type of single level SSL and (dreaming) a slumbercoach or other premium coach service.

Since these are using the same body shell, FRA approval should not be difficult to obtain. And at the end of the day (decade) Amtrak will have almost all its equipment from a single supplier.

 

[IndyLions]

Probably the most cost effective / speedy solution for Superliner replacement would be to have Siemens run variants of the Venture designed to replace the Amfleet I on the NEC:

A coach car along the lines of the Amfleet II;
A cafe car (perhaps just extending the run of those for the NEC);
A diner; and
A sleeper.

Optional would be some type of single level SSL and (dreaming) a slumbercoach or other premium coach service.

Since these are using the same body shell, FRA approval should not be difficult to obtain. And at the end of the day (decade) Amtrak will have almost all its equipment from a single supplier.

Let’s hope they get their act together. Because despite cranking out the new Midwest cars pretty quickly - evidently lead in the plumbing has sidelined every single one of them with no obvious end in sight. And I don’t want to hear from any Siemens apologists - they are one of the largest corporations in the world and outsourcing is a core competency for them.

I’m not anti-Siemens - but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[jis]

I am actually waiting to see how the VIA and Brightline sets come along. If they are equally screwed then we know for sure Siemens screwed the pooch. If not, and if the problem is specific to the Caltrans/IDOT order alone, then a little deeper digging will be necessary to figure out who did what to whom.

 

[Ryan]

I’m not anti-Siemens - but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

Call me crazy, but I'm going to wait until the facts come in before I start throwing stones.

 

[John819]

No major project is without bugs. The real question is whether the manufacturer will take responsibility and fix it. And if the benchmark is the CAF fiasco, then almost anything would pass muster.

 

[jis]

No major project is without bugs. The real question is whether the manufacturer will take responsibility and fix it. And if the benchmark is the CAF fiasco, then almost anything would pass muster.

I suspect it will get fixed. As for who pays what to whom to make it happen, we may or may not know the details depending on what CDA they are operating under as far as that goes. We from the outside don't even quite know who is really responsible, but of course in AU if we all did not have deeply held prejudices and opinions on the matter, it would not quite be AU now, would it?

 

[IndyLions]

Call me crazy, but I'm going to wait until the facts come in before I start throwing stones.

I am actually waiting to see how the VIA and Brightline sets come along. If they are equally screwed then we know for sure Siemens screwed the pooch. If not, and if the problem is specific to the Caltrans/IDOT order alone, then a little deeper digging will be necessary to figure out who did what to whom.

Fair enough - we don't with certainty know the situation nor exactly what happened yet. It's pretty frustrating - seems like building rail passenger equipment here in the states is cursed. I'd say "It's not rocket science", but it seems like rockets are being built these days with fewer issues than passenger trains...

 

[87YJ]

Having worked with the gov, their is most likely gov employees checking everything that were purchased and installed. My guess is a sub supplier gave/got false specs. Now the "blame game" You bought it.... you approved it!

 

[neroden]

Fragmenting an already relatively small fleet of cars with three different loading gauges would not be the brightest thing to do from an operational perspective though.

And honestly I'm not sure any of those routes have plate H clearance anyway. CSX has printable clearance maps on the web; UP and BNSF don't. It certainly wouldn't be worth it for the Heartland Flyer.

 

[west point]

Remember airplane builders have the same sub contractor problems. Aircraft batteries for one.

 

[jis]

Remember airplane builders have the same sub contractor problems. Aircraft batteries for one.

Not to mention the initial 787 fuselage sections that sort of fit, if you ignored a few several inches gap in the meetup of the pressure hull sections Of course it did get fixed.

And BTW there were zero government employees involved in that screwup.

 

[George Harris]

And honestly I'm not sure any of those routes have plate H clearance anyway. CSX has printable clearance maps on the web; UP and BNSF don't. It certainly wouldn't be worth it for the Heartland Flyer.

Thought we were past this in the discussion. Outside the Northeast and "last mile" into passenger station issues, all lines of significance of virtually the entire US railroad network will clear double stacks., which means will clear any conceivable bi-level passenger car. Generally railroad clearance maps will not cover these "last mile" areas anyway.

 

[George Harris]

. . . - evidently lead in the plumbing has sidelined every single one of them with no obvious end in sight.

Do what!?! Lead in the plumbing? This should not even be a possibility in anything built in the last 60 to 100 years.

 

[Tlcooper44]

redacted.

 

[neroden]

Do what!?! Lead in the plumbing? This should not even be a possibility in anything built in the last 60 to 100 years.

There's a known, plumbing-industry-wide problem with mislabeled "lead-free" parts from China which actually are full of lead.

 

[20th Century Rider]

I kinda find bilevel cars to be kinda ugly imo.

Poorly designed interior as well ... especially that central winding stairwell making it hard for travelers to 'shlep' even the smallest of handbags up the stairs. Many on this forum disagree and feel it's a perfect design.

I would use the VR Lapland cars from Finland. The cars are bilevel and are designed to run on OHE (overhead electric) routes too so it fits in tunnels fairly easily. They're similar in height to the Superliner cars so transitions to engines won't look awkward. In fact these actually will match the ALC-42 super well in my opinion.

The top photo is a VR Sleeper and the bottom is a VR Coach:
View attachment 24337
View attachment 24338

and these VR beauties are what I'd just love to see on our Amtrak tracks! With the articulation levels being center with up and down stairwells to make for smoother passage.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Right. They are non starters for the US LD network at the present time.

But redesign could accommodate dimensions to fit to our tracks and bridge / tunnel dimensions.

 

[Cal]

Many on this forum disagree and feel it's a perfect design.

Definitely not perfect but I've come so accustomed to superliners, I love them.

 

[Tlcooper44]

There are many legitimate complaints about Superliners.
That said, I fell in love with them the moment I saw them and am always a little in awe.

 

[Cal]

There are many legitimate complaints about Superliners.
That said, I fell in love with them the moment I saw them and am always a little in awe.

It will be hard to say goodbye for me.

 

[neroden]

Thought we were past this in the discussion. Outside the Northeast and "last mile" into passenger station issues, all lines of significance of virtually the entire US railroad network will clear double stacks., which means will clear any conceivable bi-level passenger car. Generally railroad clearance maps will not cover these "last mile" areas anyway.

Thanks for the information; on a lot of these routes, the tunnels and bridges didn't always clear doublestacks; it was not clear to me how far the gauge modifications had gone.

 

[Bob Dylan]

There are many legitimate complaints about Superliners.
That said, I fell in love with them the moment I saw them and am always a little in awe.

I felt the same way when I first saw the Santa Fe High Level Cars, which ended up becoming the Pacific Parlor Cars on the Starlight.( alas Long gone )

 

[west point]

Let’s hope they get their act together. Because despite cranking out the new Midwest cars pretty quickly - evidently lead in the plumbing has sidelined every single one of them with no obvious end in sight. And I don’t want to hear from any Siemens apologists - they are one of the largest corporations in the world and outsourcing is a core competency for them.

I’m not anti-Siemens - but they really screwed the pooch on this one.

This brings up the question could Brightline cars have the lead problem ?

 

[jis]

This brings up the question could Brightline cars have the lead problem ?

So far they have indicated that they use very different internal fittings from the states and thus don’t have the problems the states have.

 

[John819]

There is a big advantage in having a uniform fleet (see Southwest Airlines). Between the ADA issues and the northeast clearance problem any nationwide LD fleet would probably (barring a new idea) have to be single level.

As far as the bad fittings go, it is very common for foreign suppliers to provide an initial shipment (which will be tested) of conforming goods and then when full approval is given ship defective goods. As payment has often been made before the defect is discovered, the purchaser gets stuck.