Ideas for AGR Amtrak Travel Awards

[ALC Rail Writer]

Here, I'll explain it simply....

Trains need land.

Planes fly.

Planes can go to other counties not connected by land or bridges or tunnels.

Trains cannot.

Domestic, international... you follow?

 

[Neil_M]

Here, I'll explain it simply....
Trains need land.

Planes fly.

Planes can go to other counties not connected by land or bridges or tunnels.

Trains cannot.

Domestic, international... you follow?

So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?

And you are not explaining at all, just making a load of random statements that you think are probably true, possibly, but you don't like to admit you don't know..

Have you been to the GML School of Argument?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Let's not forget the amount of the bottom line is paid by tax dollars...

Oh why do I bother with you?

 

[Ispolkom]

Sorry, dont buy it, or the postage cost thing, how much would it cost to send a welcome letter and maybe a membership card to the UK? A few dollars at most.Hardly likely to tip the whole scheme into chaos is it?

British rail frequent traveler programs don't allow non-British residents to join (at least this is true for the ones I glanced at). The Eurostar frequent traveler program requires its members to have an address in France, Belgium or the United Kingdom. Why should AGR be any different and allow membership of persons resident in countries Amtrak does not serve?

What sort of well reasoned and thought out argument is that? :lol:

It's not an argument. It's an observation. I don't pretend to understand why frequent traveler organizations run the way they do. Are you an expert in how rail frequent-traveler programs work? If so, please enlighten me.

Lacking any insight into the inner workings of such organizations, I then turned to gathering data. Facts are often useful things. Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve. I can't find one surface transportation frequent traveler program that doesn't limit its membership that way, though I'll readily admit I couldn't find Deutsche Bahn's T & Cs. I could speculate on why they do so, as others have, but I am not fond of such levity.

So I'll repeat the question you didn't answer:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

I have often found (note: observation, again, not argument) that when diverse organizations work the same way, there is often an underlying common reason, and it's usually a waste of time to expect one particular organization to behave differently.

Sure, not being able to join AGR is unfair to you, but I can't imagine a man of your experience would try to argue on the basis of so nebulous a concept as "fairness."

 

[AlanB]

Neil,

I cannot sit here and spit out just what laws and such, especially since they aren't US laws, but the laws of England and other countries. I don't know specifics for AGR and Amtrak, but I did get my feet wet in this area a bit with my involvement a few years back to try and improve things for International members of the Shania Twain Fan Club. Anytime you start giving things away, be it via a prize drawing or via some sort of reward system (like AGR) you run into a whole myriad of laws that one must comply with. And I'm not suggesting that England is one of those countries that do have specific laws in this area.

But there are countries that do have various laws that can cause no end of problems for any company trying to run things like a fan club or a frequent flyer program. Is it possible to overcome these problems and offer things to every country? Certainly. Many do, be it a fan club or a FF program. But it does cost money to do that. In some cases it's a matter of hiring a lawyer to process the needed paperwork and ensure that you are complying with each country's laws. In other cases it's a matter of paying certain registration fees with said country, in addition to filing paperwork too.

In each case the parent organization must evaluate things for their needs and market. I have no insider info on this, but I can only believe that AGR felt that they didn't have enough of a market to open things up to overseas residents and to justify the costs and the hassles.

Sadly we also lost the fight for the Shania Fan Club too, despite the best efforts of one of your fellow countryman, another fan from Canada, and me. And frankly that was even more unfair as Shania does have a world audience and to make matters worse, those living overseas had to pay more to join, yet they got less benefits than fans living in the US and Canada. It was and remains a gross injustice IMHO, but one that neither the operator of the fan club was willing to fix, nor was her management company willing to fix. Sadly. And the major reason was because neither wanted to foot the bill to comply with non-US law.

 

[jis]

So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?
And you are not explaining at all, just making a load of random statements that you think are probably true, possibly, but you don't like to admit you don't know..

Have you been to the GML School of Argument?

I don't know what all this has to do with AGR rules or Continental One Pass Rules. No frequent traveler program is an entitlement. You get what you get, and even that can be taken away without any cause following certain well known techniques e.g. use it within x or lose it, etc.

Continental mainline does not get any direct operating subsidy like Amtrak does. It, like all other modes of transport in almost any country gets certain indirect subsidies.

So lets make a deal eh? You get Eurostar to allow American residents to become member of their frequent traveler program and we at this end will work on Amtrak :lol:

 

[AAARGH!]

So is Continental not subsidized by tax dollars then?

Continental is NOT subsidized like Amtrak is.

Is British Airways subsidized by your government? I think it is (or was).

 

[Bob Dylan]

IIRC @ one time visitors from other countries could buy rail passes that were cheaper and had more bang for the buck than the ones we could purchase here?Not sure if this is still the case,I know the North American Rail Pass that we could get a few years ago(joint Amtrak/VIA)was a fantastic deal and that Geyhound(Boo!HISS!!)sells passes and tickets cheaper in Mexico than we can buy them on this side of the border but IMHO this too is unfair,seems that all tourist oriented schemes would want all the cisstomers they could get,we can buy railpasses for Europe cheap too(well,not as cheap as they nused to be!LOL),dont know if Europeans can get the deal we do?Also Canadians can fly to the tropics cheaper in the winter than we can from Texas(3,000=miles vs. 900!!!!)so its not a matter of economics but to me an unfair advantage for whomever gets the best deal no matter where they live!Id tell Neil to get a shadow address since he obviously likes coming here,perhaps NYC would be the easiest!(or he could be like the traveler and have multiple places he spends the night in when not on trains!LOL)

 

[AlanB]

IIRC @ one time visitors from other countries could buy rail passes that were cheaper and had more bang for the buck than the ones we could purchase here?Not sure if this is still the case,I know the North American Rail Pass that we could get a few years ago(joint Amtrak/VIA)was a fantastic deal

Nope, that special pass is now gone. There is only one pass out there now that is available to all, regardless of citizenship.

 

[Neil_M]

Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve.

In the Eurostar T and C s I found this, so obviously they do have some way of dealing with people who don't have a postal address in the UK, F or B. (Note postal address, not resident)

"If you do have a postal address in one of these countries and wish to apply, or you’d simply like more information, please email [email protected]."

I must admit I have not taken any notice of any UK or European railway FT programmes, mainly because I get free or heavily reduced travel on all of them!

£38 day trip to Paris on Sunday!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Sounds like you are the British version of the traveler, you have connections!LOL

 

[Ispolkom]

Even a very cursory search for such data shows that such diverse (and I imagine better-run) organizations as Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries, and Eurostar all limit their frequent-traveler memberships geographically, mainly to areas they serve.

In the Eurostar T and C s I found this, so obviously they do have some way of dealing with people who don't have a postal address in the UK, F or B. (Note postal address, not resident)

"If you do have a postal address in one of these countries and wish to apply, or you’d simply like more information, please email [email protected]."

I must admit I have not taken any notice of any UK or European railway FT programmes, mainly because I get free or heavily reduced travel on all of them!

£38 day trip to Paris on Sunday!

Did you miss the sentence above the one you quoted, the one that says "The programme is currently only available for Eurostar travellers who have a postal address in the UK, France or Belgium."? Put the two sentences together and it means:

1) You have to have a postal address in those three countries.

2) If you *do* have a postal address in those three countries and want to apply, e-mail the above address. If you *don't* have a postal address in those three countries, it gives no information.

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.

I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

 

[Neil_M]

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

OK, ok keep your knickers on, I misread the blurb.

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.

 

[jis]

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.

Racist? Aren't we going a bit over the top? Are the Brits a different race in general from the American of the US kind?

 

[AAARGH!]

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

OK, ok keep your knickers on, I misread the blurb.

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.

Nationalists, not racists. Even we lesser users of the English language know the difference. Just poking fun. Cheers!

 

[Neil_M]

Nationalists, not racists. Even we lesser users of the English language know the difference. Just poking fun. Cheers!

Nationalist would be better!

 

[BeckysBarn]

That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
I think the AGR system is already more than fair.

OK, to put this thread back to the original topic... Which I thought was "If I were in charge of AGR, what would I do" So those who want international membership, that would be what you would do, right?

I don't think anyone is saying AGR system is not fair, but it could be fare-er

 

[Bob Dylan]

Welcome to America! bring your VISA/MC/AMEX/Discover Card,ride Amtrak,stay in our hotels and eat in our resturants,

go home and pay your bill,come back again but leave the AGR points for us!!!Plenty of racists here of course but now a days the only color that matters is green!!!

 

[Ispolkom]

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

OK, ok keep your knickers on, I misread the blurb.

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.

Merry Christmas to you, as well.

 

[Neil_M]

I cannot imagine how you get any other meaning out of those two sentences.
I repeat my question for the third time:

Why should AGR act any differently than Via Rail, Virgin Trains, Irish Ferries and Eurostar?

OK, ok keep your knickers on, I misread the blurb.

So all railway FT schemes are selectively racist. I give up.

Merry Christmas to you, as well.

Thanks, although it is a bit early.......

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Sorry Neil, just be satisfied that none of us can join British programs!

 

[Neil_M]

So anyone up for an safe house address 'swop', you might need an address in little old England to grab Eurostar points make prizes, I need some Amtrak action! h34r:

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

That's all well and good-- but AGR already allows such crazy routings that you are able to get a 50% return on the amount you spent to get those points...
I think the AGR system is already more than fair.

OK, to put this thread back to the original topic... Which I thought was "If I were in charge of AGR, what would I do" So those who want international membership, that would be what you would do, right?

I don't think anyone is saying AGR system is not fair, but it could be fare-er

My point is that it is MORE than fair.

In fact, it is almost to the point of being too fair.

 

[Bigval109]

I think the AGR system is already more than fair.

Only if you live in the US or Canada.

I remember a few years back when they had a 20% discount on points used for amtrak travel. I would love to see that one come back .

 

[Bigval109]

I think it's simply that they don't want to mail to international addresses (apart from Canada).

What in the world made you go down this road? Join online and be done with it. If they give it to you fine if they don't no money lost. Would you ride enough to get enough points for a reward? Can we get back to the topic? Pleaseeeee!