Inconsistent Service: A bigger problem than the food?

[rickycourtney]

This is a bit pedantic -- but important: The LSA is the person who's in charge of the dining car or the cafe car. If applicable, they supervise other service attendants (SA's) in the dining car, but really "Lead" means that they are financially responsible for running the cash drawer. The authority of the LSA ends at the doors of the dining car or cafe car. With all of the eastern dining cars, there's nobody to supervise.

The LSA role you describe is similar to the now eliminated "On-Board Service Chief" -- it was a union position and most members were long-tenured (expensive) employees who Amtrak saw as redundant.

I do like the idea of having someone responsible for supervising the on-board service employees in a management role.

I also think there is a discussion to be had about bringing all employees together under one union and breaking down the different roles. Other than union jurisdictional concerns, there's no reason why sleeping car attendants shouldn't be helping in the dining car making up and sending out meals.

 

[Seaboard92]

So: how does one know what crew base a crew member is from? I don't travel enough to be able to ascertain that, but I am curious. Just conversation with the crew? If so, one would have to travel a lot, it seems, to be able to make judgements on how members of a certain crew base perform. Enquiring minds want to know.

New York, NY (NYP)
-Lake Shore Limited (New York Section)
-Cardinal
-Palmetto

Miami, FL (MIA)
-Silver Star
-Silver Meteor

New Orleans, LA (NOL)
-City of New Orleans
-Crescent

Chicago, IL (CHI)
-California Zephyr
-Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
-Empire Builder (Portland Section)
-Texas Eagle (I think so but not sure)

Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
-Coast Starlight
-Southwest Chief
-Sunset Limited

Seattle, WA (SEA)
-Empire Builder (Seattle Section)

Washington, DC (WAS)
-Capitol Limited

Raleigh, NC (RGH)
-Carolinian (Day 1 RGH-CLT, Day 2 CLT-NYP, Day 3 NYP-RGH)

Now there are exceptions to rules as I've ran into a Seattle person on the Coast Starlight before who was filling in for someone who was sick and couldn't make it to work. So they flew someone in from Seattle.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
-Coast Starlight
-Southwest Chief
-Sunset Limited

I thought sunset was NOL?

 

[Seaboard92]

I thought sunset was NOL?

I remember when I was talking to an attendant on the Coast Starlight back in Fall of 2017 she said she also crewed the Sunset. Now it could have changed. NOL is one of the better bases out there.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I remember when I was talking to an attendant on the Coast Starlight back in Fall of 2017 she said she also crewed the Sunset. Now it could have changed. NOL is one of the better bases out there.

The Sunset Crews are LAX Based.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The Sunset Crews are LAX Based.

Well you learn something new everyday!

That’s another credit for LA crew base as I’ve had great service on the sunset.

 

[Palmetto]

Well you learn something new everyday!

That’s another credit for LA crew base as I’ve had great service on the sunset.

Me too, but I've only taken one trip. LSAs going both ways were superb. Heather in the dining car was out of this world. A vet, by the way.

 

[Palmetto]

What about 448/449? Is Boston a base, by any chance?

 

[Nick Farr]

This is an innovative idea regarding the services available and the expectations. For such an e-mail to come from their specific LSA and SCA may not be workable because of the unexpected unavailability of that crew member or for some other reason.

It may not be workable, but the idea is that it's a fully automated message that appears to be "from" their LSA/SCA. The folks themselves would not be sending e-mails or even aware of it other than knowing, vaguely, that their passengers got a canned message with their pictures in it. If there is a reply feature, it would go to a centralized customer service area.

 

[tricia]

It may not be workable, but the idea is that it's a fully automated message that appears to be "from" their LSA/SCA. The folks themselves would not be sending e-mails or even aware of it other than knowing, vaguely, that their passengers got a canned message with their pictures in it. If there is a reply feature, it would go to a centralized customer service area.

Speaking just for myself, I get far too many "canned" messages already. Also, not everyone is going to be glued to their email as soon as they get on the train. Better perhaps to have the SCA drop a piece of paper or card in the room with her/his name and a sum-up of services available to passengers on the train--including instructions for how to summon or find the SCA.

 

[MARC Rider]

If you don't want to do the work, quit.

That's not really an option for most people. Maybe if we had some sort of Universal Basic Income...

 

[MARC Rider]

If the standards manual is very good and detailed as to what service is to be provided, then such ought to be followed by all service employees to the best of their ability.

How to do so: my suggestions---

#1: All service employees are required to attend paid in-service instructional seminars regarding the Service Manual at their crew base on a regular basis. Maybe, once per year?

#2: The position of On-board Service Chief be re-established with the needed authority to insure that passengers are receiving the service for which they paid.

#3: Post-trip e-mail surveys sent to guests who have provided their e-mail addresses with encouragement to mention those crew members who met/exceeded the expectations of the guest as well as those crew members who need a "refresher" course in the Standards Manual.

The only one of these that I think would do any good is #2. Having some supervision would probably make a difference, but it has to be effective supervision. E-mail surveys are useless, it's just another piece of junk email cluttering the inbox that will be ignored by the vast majority of recipients. Training might be helpful, but, again, I've been to lots of in-service training where we all just zoned out and it went into one ear and out the other.

And the problem may be that the service manual is TOO detailed and you end up with OBS not being able to follow it to the letter and a small minority of "roomette lawyer" passengers who access to it getting picky about demanding stuff that actually interferes with safe and efficient operation of the train under the particular conditions at that time.

To be quite honest, I've been riding long distance trains for quite a while, and I've never had really bad service. The worst things were the occasional dining car waiters that seem to "forget" about you (and for not all that long) and maybe the occasional dining car maitre D' that barks at you like a drill sergeant, or at least aren't obsequious. OK, and occasionally I come back from breakfast and my room wasn't made up. But I didn't ask them to do it, and when I do, it gets made up pretty quickly. But most of the time, the OBS gets the job done with no drama, even if they aren't groveling all over me, which is fine with me. I ride the train to get somewhere, not be fawned over by flunkies and lackeys.

 

[MARC Rider]

I have always worked at service jobs, and have indeed worked on a "sinking ship" (Rosario Resort at the end of its Gemstone era and before bought by Gerry Barto in 2008). Management had no desire to serve customers well, and this attitude spread to the staff.

Due to government travel regulations, I was forced to fly Continental airlines in the Frank Lorenzo era (1986-1987). Same thing.

 

[MARC Rider]

Speaking just for myself, I get far too many "canned" messages already. Also, not everyone is going to be glued to their email as soon as they get on the train. Better perhaps to have the SCA drop a piece of paper or card in the room with her/his name and a sum-up of services available to passengers on the train--including instructions for how to summon or find the SCA.

This is actually a good idea. I've seen the SCAs leave business cards in the room, but a card with the services available would be a good way to set expectations all around.

 

[jiml]

That's not really an option for most people. Maybe if we had some sort of Universal Basic Income...

That's supposedly one of the election "goodies" the Canadian government is expected to float in their fall budget. No one's really sure how they'll pay for it...

 

[Nick Farr]

The problem with such email surveys is that many people don't bother with them. Most of the people that do respond are the ones who want to complain - sometimes they even complain about good service simply because they like to complain.

You really don't know until you start consistently asking for them and you can filter out the whiners. There's many people (Uber drivers, for example) who will always put the highest mark on every survey, having received an unfair bad mark at some point in their careers.

In my customer service environment, we built a culture around making sure our CSRs mention the survey they'll receive with every customer interaction. One of their metrics we assess on is survey response rate. If OBS know they're getting rated, they'll have a better incentive to do a better job.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Amtrak claims that most of the feedback about their new flexicon cafeteria mush is positive.

Um... I think they came to that 'conclusion' when glancing at something that generalized on millennial preferences.

 

[Nick Farr]

Speaking just for myself, I get far too many "canned" messages already. Also, not everyone is going to be glued to their email as soon as they get on the train. Better perhaps to have the SCA drop a piece of paper or card in the room with her/his name and a sum-up of services available to passengers on the train--including instructions for how to summon or find the SCA.

The point of the e-mails is to establish a pattern for a survey and inform them. Sure, many will be ignored, but one does not stop the other from happening. The idea is building a total system of accountability. Lots of lazy SCAs will not leave the paper there--or, they'll magically "run out", etc.

It's not an either/or situation, it's a "let's do both" situation.

 

[Nick Farr]

To be quite honest, I've been riding long distance trains for quite a while, and I've never had really bad service.

This was my experience UNTIL COVID. Being told by one LSA on a return trip that if I wanted to eat, I'd have to eat in the diner crossed the line as far as bad service goes for me.

 

[Nick Farr]

That's not really an option for most people. Maybe if we had some sort of Universal Basic Income...

I'm definitely a fan of UBI:

1) It allows time/space for people to contemplate their next career and develop skills in something they're passionate about and will do because it is rewarding. This increases aggregate productivity.
2) It gets people who really don't want to work out of the workforce. There's lots of people that skip from job to job for lack of an alternative and/or increase labor costs for everyone through frivolous disability claims simply to avoid working. This brings down aggregate productivity.
3) UBI money goes directly into local economies that create and sustain jobs.
4) UBI forces higher wages--which pushes money back into local economies instead of into stock buybacks and other tax havens for Billionaires.

That being said, are you saying that there aren't other jobs available? That high unemployment is a good excuse for anyone to have a bad attitude in their job?

 

[Nick Farr]

Um... I think they came to that 'conclusion' when glancing at something that generalized on millennial preferences.

Well, here's the thing: Nobody asked me what I thought of the Flex Meals. I never got a survey. I was never presented with the opportunity to give my opinion on it. (As opposed to Delta, where I swear I got three surveys for every flight )

Because of this, any evidence Amtrak has on the meals is automatically suspect.

I don't think the reviews are going to be as universally bad as they are portrayed here, but I suspect that "meh" is largely going to be the outcome.

 

[20th Century Rider]

Well, here's the thing: Nobody asked me what I thought of the Flex Meals. I never got a survey. I was never presented with the opportunity to give my opinion on it. (As opposed to Delta, where I swear I got three surveys for every flight )

Because of this, any evidence Amtrak has on the meals is automatically suspect.

I don't think the reviews are going to be as universally bad as they are portrayed here, but I suspect that "meh" is largely going to be the outcome.

I almost agree with everything you said... but do think any requested reviews would reflect on the pathetic quality of flex meals. And I kind-a think that is exactly why such reviews are not solicited by Amtrak.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Having some supervision would probably make a difference, but it has to be effective supervision. E-mail surveys are useless, it's just another piece of junk email cluttering the inbox that will be ignored by the vast majority of recipients. Training might be helpful, but, again, I've been to lots of in-service training where we all just zoned out and it went into one ear and out the other. And the problem may be that the service manual is TOO detailed and you end up with OBS not being able to follow it to the letter and a small minority of "roomette lawyer" passengers who access to it getting picky about demanding stuff that actually interferes with safe and efficient operation of the train under the particular conditions at that time.

At this point almost any supervision would be an improvement over the status quo, even if all it did was corroborate customer complaints with official documentation to help facilitate retraining or removal. Emailing on it's own may be ineffective but as part of a wider outreach effort it could be helpful if taken seriously. Training can be done on the move instead of stuck in a classroom and the manual can be modified when necessary.

To be quite honest, I've been riding long distance trains for quite a while, and I've never had really bad service.

To be quite honest, I'm not sure you've ever had really good service with which to compare it.

 

[20th Century Rider]

So supervising has to be done just right to accomplish anything. Email surveys are useless unless most passengers respond to each inquiry. Training is too boring and theoretical, they need something that's more specific and easier to follow. Oh but the manual is too detailed and specific, they need more freedom to do their own thing. On the one hand you don't seem to have any practical answers for fixing bad service. On the other hand you seem to have a lot in common with the staff this thread is trying to address.


To be quite honest, I don't think you've ever had really good service and thus have no frame of reference for what that looks or sounds like.

The attendant in an empty car who sits in room #1 and plays games on his computer... refuses to bring meals, and doesn't want to be bothered to make up your room in the morning ... I've had 'service' like that many times... and do complain. This is an area where Amtrak is inconsistent and has historically allowed this to happen. And by tipping such a person one is actually encouraging lackluster service.

 

[Nick Farr]

So supervising has to be done just right to accomplish anything. Email surveys are useless unless most passengers respond to each inquiry.

Absolutely not. I supervise CSRs as one of my jobs and on a great day, our survey response rate is 15%.

Even if only 5% respond, you're still getting really good data from your customers as to what is happening in the field. You can start a conversation with your employees as to what happened in certain aspects of service, why the customer felt they way they did, etc.

You can also start to identify who your really star performers are, figure out what they do well and offer that feedback to the rest of the company.

Also: If they're going after the Millennial/app market, this is a baseline expectation. We get surveys all the time and we respond to them--this is our only way of letting our voice be heard in most circumstances.

Anyone who calls in is just going to get a refund and be seen as a "problem".