Is the lounge car important to you or your trip?

[jis]

What are you talking about? India has the ultimate scenic lounge car opportunity. Just bring a pillow and sit on the roof.

Probably not a very bright thing to do in electrified territory. The flashover spark that kills you could be bright though

 

[cocojacoby]

The original post speaks about the "new high speed train sets not having tables [in the cafe car." It doesn't have a lounge per say, just areas for people to stand around and enjoy food or beverages at sort of "high top" counters and small tables. And for the most part - hold onto your drink or any food you buy so it doesn't go flying off the tables. However, this is absolutely no different than the current Acela Express Cafe Cars. Other than the counter to "serve" food and beverage, the rest of the car is really a HUGE waste of space. I am not sure who came up with this concept - but not sure how appealing it really is to buy food and drink and then "stand up" next to a table top to then enjoy your purchase. There's no sit down area. You have to stand. I don't even think these new cafes have stools. I have no use for the Acela Express Cafe Car - other than as a place to buy food and drink and bring back to my seat to enjoy. Typically I am using my upgrade coupons to travel First Class. So the current cars and the new cars are being built on the same model that I believe leads to a lot of wasted space in this car. Amtrak former CEO and Pres. David Gunn wanted to add seating or potentially conference areas to the "empty/open" space of the cafe car. That makes more sense than the current setup. I've never really seen people "mingling" or hanging out in the Acela cafe car. A replication of the car for the new high speed train sets I think is a MAJOR short coming. Something else could have been designed here and made the experience more attractive..

And I find it weird that the existing Acela Cafe Car with "seats" has it's windows placed higher for standing height viewing and the new Acela II with no seats has it's windows at seat height. Go figure.

 

[west point]

Amtrak trying to make all LD train have the same service probably will not work. There is too much difference I sections of the country. ie Acela type food service may not work on LD ? Eastern LD may need difference than 'The many different CHI services ?

 

[Dakota 400]

I remember riding in an Amtrak (former PRR?) flat ended observation car in 1973. It was part of the Washington section of the Broadway Limited. There might have been some sleeper rooms in it

I think that car did have some Bedrooms or Compartments or a Drawing Room along with the Lounge section. The car that I remember had Sections and those were retired before by the end of the 1950's or early "60's I am fairly certain.

 

[me_little_me]

Lounge cars are a relic and I'm a relic, so I love the lounge car. But from what I can see while observing other (younger) people, life consists of looking at a screen these days--laptop, phone, wearing ear buds, doing work, watching movies--who looks out the window anymore?

I suspect lounges served their purposes in days of yore, when people had no "personal electronic devices" to keep them permanently occupied on long trips--they needed to look out the window or TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE to keep themselves occupied. Not anymore. So it wouldn't surprise me if non-revenue generating "lounge" cars are phased out. I'd miss them, like I miss every other amenity that has been taken away.

Alas, so true. I have a picture of my 9 y/o grandson from 2 months back that shows a picture taken by his parents on the Zephyr in Colorado. Spectacular mesa outside the window (sunset or morning) with beautiful sunlight colors - as he is playing video games on his cell phone. And he is a train lover who has been on most train systems in North America! He loves riding them but scenery is trumped by video games. Sad! His uncle was that way - only back then that son buried his head in books - far more useful.

 

[Qapla]

I really enjoy looking at the scenery ... but. I will have to admit, at my age, it doesn't make much difference if I sit and look out the window or watch a movie on my device - I will most likely fall asleep before too long - Sigh!

 

[IndyLions]

Restrooms.

...But the train was spotless, staff were impeccably polite and efficient (even by Japanese standards) and it ran on schedule, to the minute...

Yeah, yeah, yeah - we get it. Trains nearly everywhere else in the world are better than ours.

I’m sure it’s the lack of a lounge car that makes all of that possible.

 

[neroden]

Pretty much essential to have table seating. Whether that's in the form of a lounge car or not, arguable, but table seating is a huge selling point for groups larger than 2.

 

[Willbridge]

There were a handful of pre-Amtrak observation cars, either round end or flat, that had some of its seats facing out the windows....

That was the case when I rode the Morning International in 1968. Those two cars (Port of Seattle and Port of Vancouver) later were on the Amtrak Milwaukee <> St. Louis trains. The Coast Daylight in 1969 offered a pair of seats facing out the rear window. The NP "Holiday Lounge" parlor-lounges had swivel seats for the PDX<>SEA route.

 

[TiBike]

Yeah, yeah, yeah - we get it. Trains nearly everywhere else in the world are better than ours.

I’m sure it’s the lack of a lounge car that makes all of that possible.

What makes all of that possible is that they know they provide transportation, not entertainment, service. Anderson called it exactly right when he took the job:

"We must narrow our focus to running a great core railroad: safe, on time, clean cars, friendly service and great customer-facing technology".

All the lounge cars and steak dinners in the world won't help if Amtrak can't fulfil those basic needs, which it historically hasn't. The way to fix that is to get rid of of anything that doesn't directly support those five objectives, and concentrate everyone's attention on achieving them. That's why Japan Rail is so great.

 

[Rasputin]

What makes all of that possible is that they know they provide transportation, not entertainment, service. Anderson called it exactly right when he took the job:

"We must narrow our focus to running a great core railroad: safe, on time, clean cars, friendly service and great customer-facing technology".

So I take it that the argument is that the presence and existence of the lounge cars are causing trains to be unsafe, late, unclean (perhaps mice attracted to the food?), unfriendly and technologically unsound.

So if we eliminated all lounge cars, trains would run on time (lounge-hating host railroads would suddenly become extremely cooperative), no mice, friendly service would prevail, and there would be wonderful technology.

Sounds like you have got a winning argument!

 

[Skyline]

What makes all of that possible is that they know they provide transportation, not entertainment, service. Anderson called it exactly right when he took the job:

"We must narrow our focus to running a great core railroad: safe, on time, clean cars, friendly service and great customer-facing technology".

All the lounge cars and steak dinners in the world won't help if Amtrak can't fulfil those basic needs, which it historically hasn't. The way to fix that is to get rid of of anything that doesn't directly support those five objectives, and concentrate everyone's attention on achieving them. That's why Japan Rail is so great.

Japan has roughly the square miles of California. 128 million residents in Japan vs. 40 million in California. Lots of population centers, many close to each other. Who in their right mind would compare US transportation needs with Japan?

 

[TiBike]

Focusing on safety, OTP, cleanliness, friendly service and modern tech is important. Anything that doesn't directly support those objectives isn't important. Anything that distracts attention from those objectives or presents a needless point of failure that could prevent achieving those objectives should be eliminated.

Amtrak will never be Japan Rail, or comparable to European or Chinese (PRC or ROC) railroads. But those examples show that an excellent transportation service 1. does not depend on lounges or on board kitchens, or even on board food service in many cases, and 2. is safe, clean and on time, with professional and courteous staff and up to date technology.

 

[Qapla]

Anything that doesn't directly support those objectives isn't important. Anything that distracts attention from those objectives or presents a needless point of failure that could prevent achieving those objectives should be eliminated.

So, we need to eliminate freight trains ... since they are the major cause of late trains, out-of-date tech, and even some safety issues - simple, boot the owners of the tracks off their own tracks and eliminate comfort on the trains and we will have Japan Rail (or, at least Euro-rail)

 

[Wolverine72]

They have every right to use the Lounge as you do. They are most likely getting actual work done...

However, if you have been sitting there for hours as people wait in the aisle for a seat, said millennial is just perpetuating the stereotype of entitlement.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

However, if you have been sitting there for hours as people wait in the aisle for a seat, said millennial is just perpetuating the stereotype of entitlement.

I’ve never seen people waiting in the aisle for a seat in an Amtrak lounge other than the Rockies on the Zephyr and Glacier Park on the Builder.

 

[chrsjrcj]

However, if you have been sitting there for hours as people wait in the aisle for a seat, said millennial is just perpetuating the stereotype of entitlement.

Lounge car is first come first served. What makes one person more entitled to a seat in a lounge car over another?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Lounge car is first come first served. What makes one person more entitled to a seat in a lounge car over another?

Also.... I’ve never had a “millennial” tell me I couldn’t sit with them at their table. I have had an older couple claim a 4-seat booth as their own, and I’ve had rich spoiled kids (my own judgment...) tell me that an entire empty booth was being saved for their parents. Don’t worry I just sat down and said, “oh they are welcome to join me when they arrive”

 

[Barb Stout]

Pretty much essential to have table seating. Whether that's in the form of a lounge car or not, arguable, but table seating is a huge selling point for groups larger than 2.

Does anyone else have a problem with the size of these booths? If I sit on the edge of the seat and lean forward at least a 45 degree angle, I can use the table, but it's very uncomfortable, so I use the chairs instead and hold whatever I'm holding in my hands or on my lap.

 

[Dakota 400]

Does anyone else have a problem with the size of these booths? If I sit on the edge of the seat and lean forward at least a 45 degree angle, I can use the table, but it's very uncomfortable, so I use the chairs instead and hold whatever I'm holding in my hands or on my lap.

Comfortable, not really, but acceptable. I find the distance from where I am sitting to the table closer than I would like. Shoulder/hip room between me and my neighbor on the seat is tight.

 

[Larry H.]

Focusing on safety, OTP, cleanliness, friendly service and modern tech is important. Anything that doesn't directly support those objectives isn't important. Anything that distracts attention from those objectives or presents a needless point of failure that could prevent achieving those objectives should be eliminated.

Amtrak will never be Japan Rail, or comparable to European or Chinese (PRC or ROC) railroads. But those examples show that an excellent transportation service 1. does not depend on lounges or on board kitchens, or even on board food service in many cases, and 2. is safe, clean and on time, with professional and courteous staff and up to date technology.

 

[Larry H.]

I couldn't get the quote about Japanese Trains and their simplicity that made them work well. Take a look at these Japanese trains and see if you find anything like this in America. WE have quit trying to provide amenities that create a passenger base. Its partly the governments fault, an managements attitudes don't help. Our railroads too knew that decent lounges and diners worth eating in were a necessary part of long distance travel. That hasn't changed, but some of you certainly have..

luxury japanese trains

 

[Larry H.]

Well that didn't work either, you can google Luxury Japanese Train Photo for some eye opening differences in how Japan feels about travelers and we do.

 

[Wolverine72]

The Zeyphr heading out of Denver is one of the most scenic runs and the lounge gets packed. Been on that train when the lounge is full with people standing in entrance and back through the first coach. About two hours out of Denver the attendants announced their appreciate for folks sharing booths and asked for consideration for those waiting. I had a Bloody Mary for breakfast chatted with a few folks and headed back to my roomette. Fortunately the room across from me was vacant. Great views out both sides.

 

[jis]

So, we need to eliminate freight trains ... since they are the major cause of late trains, out-of-date tech, and even some safety issues - simple, boot the owners of the tracks off their own tracks and eliminate comfort on the trains and we will have Japan Rail (or, at least Euro-rail)

Then how do the Chinese and the Russians manage to run massive number of freight trains in addition to running good passenger service?

What we need to get rid of is unplanned haphazard management driven by dubious goals, which often have little to do with providing good transportation for freight or passenger, a malady we seem to suffer from in spades in this great country.