Lake Shore/Capitol Limited Sleeping Car Menu Refresh 1/16/19

[pennyk]

Interesting.  Are you privy to Amtrak's internal information?  I'm surprised that the change would result in a generally "mixed" reaction.  I'm not saying you are wrong.  I am just curious as to your source.

Ryan's information is consistent with the feedback received by RPA (f/k/a NARP).

 

[keelhauled]

I wonder if they are still served in boxes. It seemed that a not insignificant part of the initial reaction to the change was the image of boxed vs. plated food. 

I think it’s a pity they didn’t keep the chicken salad option; it would have been a good alternative to the heavier, for lack of a better word, hot options they have now. 

 

[Ryan]

Interesting.  Are you privy to Amtrak's internal information?  I'm surprised that the change would result in a generally "mixed" reaction.  I'm not saying you are wrong.  I am just curious as to your source.

I think he’s talking about the general stances of AU members. Many people here have said that they support “contemporary dining”, with their main points being that the meals are actually of a pretty high quality, that the unlimited soft drinks and free hard drink are an improvement, and that the breakfast box is pretty fresh/tasty and very filling. I definitely disagree that it’s an improvement as do plenty of other members (seems like it’s probably roughly 25/75 for/against it), but 1@Ryan[/USER] is definitely correct that reception here has been pretty mixed.

I don't think so.  Here is what he said, "the whining and complaining of Internet Railroaders is not representative of actual customer feedback."  (emphasis mine)

You are correct to pick up on "actual customer" - if you pay attention here to people that have actually consumed the meals, you get a much more even handed assessment.  I also run a 17,xxx member Facebook Group that provided a decent number of reviews of the meals after they actually began being served.  Again, the feedback was mixed, and not the torches and pitchforks of the AU forum mob.  It's also interesting that the complaints of actual customers (mostly centering around more hot choices and something other than sugar and carbs for breakfast) have been addressed, while the loud fringe's complaints ("real" dining car meals prepared by a chef or bust!) have gone ignored.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Only listening to the people who rode the train sounds rational at first but it also comes with a rather glaring blind spot.  The people who were turned off by the new menu and either canceled their plans or found other means of travel will end up being ignored and potentially lost forever.  In addition, by only listening to the people who rode these specific trains you're missing out on the views of people who currently ride other trains but would be prone to abandoning them if contemporary boxed lunches are expanded to other routes as well.  Nothing in this menu really appeals to me.  I could probably make do on a day trip but over multiple days this menu would be unsuitable for my needs.  I tend to fly at least one leg of every trip so the usual response of bringing all my food and drinks with me is often impractical.

 

[Thirdrail7]



Where did the 19th of January come from? Just wondering...doesn't make a difference to me as my next trip on the LSL not until next fall.

Me. I started this thread while updating the other. The cafe refresh was supposed to take effect on the nineteenth. When I edited the title, I mistakenly merged the two ideas. The cafe is the nineteenth, the dining menu is the sixteenth.

Why would it bother you if BOTH vegetarians and meat eaters are made to be happy?  Good customer service means making the maximum number of people happy.  It's really that simple.  I was under the impression that we all wanted Amtrak to offer the best customer service possible.  And personally, I am happy when the maximum number of people are made happy.  I've never seen that as something to be "irked" about.  Not everything in life needs to be made into some sort of competition.

I haven't suggested that anyone has to put things together on board.  All Amtrak would need is a few small trays of chicken breast that get heated along with everything else in the convection oven.  The passengers that want to add chicken to the noodle bowl could be given a tray of chicken breast and add it themselves.  Not hard at all.  Super easy, actually.  And lots of happy people - both vegetarians and meat eaters.

The reality of the situation is there are costs and concerns. While the application may be "super easy," the whole idea of the contemporary menu is to simplify components, reduce the risk of spoilage, waste and eliminate costs.  Believe me when I say they are  watching these hot entrees like a hawk. 

I wonder if they are still served in boxes. It seemed that a not insignificant part of the initial reaction to the change was the image of boxed vs. plated food. 

The continental breakfast will not be served in a box, which is what made me think the start up  may be a little rough as the LSA and SCA will likely need to get used to the new routine. 

 

[VTTrain]

I'm really curious about how much you will be allowed to take at breakfast.  

 

[Thirdrail7]

I'm really curious about how much you will be allowed to take at breakfast.  

With the continental breakfast, you'll pretty much serve yourself. Partaking of the continental breakfast doesn't mean you can't order the breakfast sandwich, the yogurt etc. 

The "what if they want more and we're running out"  question is still left to the crew to figure out (naturally), but it supplies are available, you're supposed to eat up.

Personally, I hope you all clean house and  sincerely hope all of the hot entrees and anything else that can spoil is eaten first.

 

[Ryan]

Only listening to the people who rode the train sounds rational at first but it also comes with a rather glaring blind spot.  The people who were turned off by the new menu and either canceled their plans or found other means of travel will end up being ignored and potentially lost forever.  In addition, by only listening to the people who rode these specific trains you're missing out on the views of people who currently ride other trains but would be prone to abandoning them if contemporary boxed lunches are expanded to other routes as well.  Nothing in this menu really appeals to me.  I could probably make do on a day trip but over multiple days this menu would be unsuitable for my needs.  I tend to fly at least one leg of every trip so the usual response of bringing all my food and drinks with me is often impractical.

In the context of evaluating the overall "success" of this, you're absolutely correct.

In the context of the comment I was replying to...

It wouldn't surprise me if customers were giving the attendants an earful - especially if they didn't know about the chance until they were given a menu.

... they're not giving the attendants an earful if they're not on the train.

 

[billl]

Wonder if Amtrak has any plans to change the Cardinal?  Pull off the diner-lite and its microwave fare, put on a V-II diner with the new "contemporary" menu.  Keep the AmCafe with the business class (or eliminate business class and just use the AmCafe as the lounge/cafe for coach passengers).  You are not adding additional equipment and having a V-II diner to be used as a lounge on this route would be a plus (at least for sleeper passengers).

 

[pennyk]

I started this thread while updating the other. The cafe refresh was supposed to take effect on the nineteenth. When I edited the title, I mistakenly merged the two ideas. The cafe is the nineteenth, the dining menu is the sixteenth.

I changed the title to 1/16/19.  If this is not accurate, please let me know and I can change again.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Everything except breakfast reminds me of a $3.00 Healthychoice frozen meal. Which isn’t far from the truth I’m sure (except the Healthy part). 

Great as long as we don’t see them on western trains. As it was on our recent Chi- Lax RT the food was fine but could have been improved definitely not downgraded to this though. If this is what RPA was so giddy about I’m not all that impressed. Step in right direction for sure. Let’s see what it looks like first hand

 

[Anthony V]

While these improvements were needed, I still think that sleeper passengers should be offered optional vouchers for the café car if they don't like anything on the contemporary dining menu.

 

[Bob Dylan]

While these improvements were needed, I still think that sleeper passengers should be offered optional vouchers for the café car if they don't like anything on the contemporary dining menu.

Ditto! This used to be the Policy on #448/#449 between Boston and Albany when Sleeping Car pax ate in the Cafe Car.

 

[user 14106]

While these improvements were needed, I still think that sleeper passengers should be offered optional vouchers for the café car if they don't like anything on the contemporary dining menu.

Yes especially for lunch when you may not want the larger meal. Or simply add some of the cafe items to the menu as an alternative to the bigger entrees that you could just directly order from the LSA in the sleeper diner. (similar to what they will be doing with the breakfast sandwich)We are now essentially equivalent to the Cardinal as far as the entrees go. A lighter fare/lunch menu seems to be the thing still missing.

 

[Steve4031]

The The breakfast menu is a big improvement on this over what was before but the lunch and dinner menus still just need a basic sandwich like

 

[Sauve850]

Customers were notified of the change, and the feedback from people that have actually experienced his has been mixed.  While some probably did give an earful, the whining and complaining of Internet Railroaders is not representative of actual customer feedback.

We've also known all along that this was something of a trial, and that Amtrak would be further tweaking things.  Adding hot meals as equipment modifications required to do so are completed makes more sense than the angry mob theory.

I agree with your post(s). And the whining and complaining here gets so old with just the slightest changes before anyone has a chance to experience them.

 

[tonijustine]

Only listening to the people who rode the train sounds rational at first but it also comes with a rather glaring blind spot.  The people who were turned off by the new menu and either canceled their plans or found other means of travel will end up being ignored and potentially lost forever.  In addition, by only listening to the people who rode these specific trains you're missing out on the views of people who currently ride other trains but would be prone to abandoning them if contemporary boxed lunches are expanded to other routes as well.  Nothing in this menu really appeals to me.  I could probably make do on a day trip but over multiple days this menu would be unsuitable for my needs.  I tend to fly at least one leg of every trip so the usual response of bringing all my food and drinks with me is often impractical.

This assumes people understand that:
1. Dining options have changed, which initial implies that someone has either traveled this route before or are invested enough to actually research (I am the latter but I also admit I am odd...) and
2. That is a driving concern.

I doubt that casual, first time customers know or care. It’s either railfans (who anticipate a certain experience) or Planny McPlannersons (technically I am both but this is my husband’s nickname for me) that even know there is a difference. I suspect that the number of people “turned off” is a small percentage of ridership.

 

[Seaboard92]

All I know is the next time I ride the Capitol Punishment I'm getting a hot meal, prepared fresh by an on board chef to Baltimore & Ohio, and New York Central Railroad recipes. And that will be in April.

The last time I was on the Late for Sure Limited I also had a hot meal by an on board chef. And that was last September.

 

[cpotisch]

All I know is the next time I ride the Capitol Punishment I'm getting a hot meal, prepared fresh by an on board chef to Baltimore & Ohio, and New York Central Railroad recipes. And that will be in April.

The last time I was on the Late for Sure Limited I also had a hot meal by an on board chef. And that was last September.

Sorry, your point is...?

 

[Manny T]

I think you put far too much stock in how much Amtrak pays attention to complaining on Internet forums.

I know this: after taking the CL round-trip last month, in all my social media posts I mentioned how GREAT it was to receive the half bottle of wine (a $16 value!) with the dinner, and how GENEROUS Amtrak was to be offering it to sleeping car PAX at no charge.

Now, it's gone. So CLEARLY, Amtrak was paying attention.

 

[cpotisch]

I know this: after taking the CL round-trip last month, in all my social media posts I mentioned how GREAT it was to receive the half bottle of wine (a $16 value!) with the dinner, and how GENEROUS Amtrak was to be offering it to sleeping car PAX at no charge.

Now, it's gone. So CLEARLY, Amtrak was paying attention.

Well, Amtrak is still being “GENEROUS” by offering free booze for sleeper pax, it’s just that the amount is half as “GREAT” as before. So, at least they didn’t get rid of the free wine altogether, though I suppose me saying this might have jinxed it...

 

[Thirdrail7]

Sorry, your point is...?

Ride a private car when you can, particularly if the car is close to the cost of Amtrak's sleeper.

 

[Seaboard92]

TR7 got it. Of course my price I pay is free because I work on them. The point was more to just rub it in.

 

[neroden]

Why didn't they just start with this instead of the stupid cold menu?  Were they forced to make changes due to passenger complaints?

Yes, I'm quite sure they were.

 I often travel in January and February.  This year, I was seeing substantially lower dining car patronage than normal at breakfast and the people who were there were complaining.  Actually, they were already complaining, and already there were fewer riders, with the "crippled dining car" service offered immediately before the "boxed food" service, but this was even worse.  The sequence of pointless downgrades has clearly hurt LSL sleeper ridership -- there were more empty roomettes than I'm used to seeing too.

This is at least an improvement rather than another downgrade.  They still haven't figured out what it says in the PIP -- half the dining car customers on the LSL were from coach -- and they really ought to be offering the food to coach passengers in some fashion, too.

 

[neroden]

Customers were notified of the change, and the feedback from people that have actually experienced his has been mixed.  While some probably did give an earful, the whining and complaining of Internet Railroaders is not representative of actual customer feedback.

We've also known all along that this was something of a trial, and that Amtrak would be further tweaking things.  Adding hot meals as equipment modifications required to do so are completed makes more sense than the angry mob theory.

No, it doesn't, Ryan.

I ride this train regularly.  (The LSL.)  Pretty much an angry mob at every meal.  So the angry mob theory makes sense.

That said, the recent changes have addressed the actual complaints.  The extreme carb loading seemed to be the biggest and most consistent complaint, as well as the lack of breakfast options, and these two combined to create serious breakfast complaints.  The lack of hot meals was the smaller complaint.  The staff were doing their best by offering the dinner meals as breakfast options.

Pretty much nobody cared about the lack of on-board cooking or of tablecloths or of waiters, as far as I can tell.  So Amtrak has actually now addressed ALL the complaints of the angry mob.  People will probably settle down, since the genuinely common complaints seem to have been addressed.  It still seems dumb to me that Amtrak management didn't *expect* those complaints, since they were obvious in advance to me, and I'm no expert.  But it's fixed now.

The coach passengers who aren't eating in the dining car won't complain -- because the cafe car menu was massively improved, addressing a complaint which has been recurring for several decades.  I still think Amtrak would get more money if they offered coach customers a "meal pass" for purchase, but nobody will *complain*.