Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement discussion (2022 - 2024Q1)

[railiner]

I think the closes we will get to a dome is the mostly wrap around windows found on sightseer cars and outdoor segments are likely a risk amtrak doesn't want to take

They could make an ADA compliant, “virtual dome”, by taking a single level “Panorama” car with its glass roof windows, and add video monitors on the front and rear bulkheads fed by live cameras providing front and rear views…

 

[Palmland]

So no they will not get cars with outside platforms

Gee, I was hoping Amtrak would order one of these to add to the CZ in Denver or perhaps also serve as Ethan Allen cab car.

 

[Siegmund]

Gee, I was hoping Amtrak would order one of these to add to the CZ in Denver or perhaps also serve as Ethan Allen cab car.

View attachment 34676

I would settle for them ordering a dozen of those to use as axle count cars.

 

[frequentflyer]

I don't know when GE left the market, but if the goal was to instead build a finance operation that would sink the company, they did that. There's a lot of need for finance, for example many or most vehicle dealerships can't afford their inventory without credit. My boring story is about a Vespa dealership that still had a market in 2008, prosperous area, but lost all its inventory, owned by GE.

Finance is the tough major in business school, lots of risk/reward, skill and luck. They didn't calculate the standard deviation, a.k.a. systemic risk, when making models based on historic data and getting the tiny edge that made billions, a.k.a., the vig (in betting terms).

I'm also ignorant about this manufacturing thing, I see locomotives shipping out to Africa at the Norfolk VA seaport, but I guess we're talking passenger equipment? Or it may be from a rehab operation, up in Central NY or PA or somewhere.

It was the finance arm that made GE aircraft engines and Locomotives number one in their respective industries. Welch has become the boogey man for some reason but when he demanded GE be at the top of the markets they competed in and they were. Welch just sucked at training others to replace him.

To get back to LD topic, Siemens will release a new railjet sleeper in December. I loathe Amtrak being reliant on one supplier but it works for certain airlines and Alstom has not exactly stepped it up regarding Acela. Maybe there is hope for Stadler.

 

[MARC Rider]

Gee, I was hoping Amtrak would order one of these to add to the CZ in Denver or perhaps also serve as Ethan Allen cab car.

View attachment 34676

I don't think riding in one of these would be very pleasant when the train is going 79 mph in subfreezing weather, both of which are fairly common occurrences on Amtrak long-distance rides.

 

[GDRRiley]

Be interesting if Amtrak decides to use the mini cabins as a slumbercoach like car replacement, I think 40-44 pods along with 1-2 bathrooms and a shower should fit into the standard 80ft a car with 1 door gets. I doubt they would do it as a bi level but then I think we could see around 60.

 

[Mailliw]

Be interesting if Amtrak decides to use the mini cabins as a slumbercoach like car replacement, I think 40-44 pods along with 1-2 bathrooms and a shower should fit into the standard 80ft a car with 1 door gets. I doubt they would do it as a bi level but then I think we could see around 60.

A proper daytime configuration would be essential. If Amtrak is able to go with the accesible core trainset then a neo-Slumbercoach may be feasible. They could even be stacked vertically and still be quit comfortable.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

I’m still blown away with what Alstrom has built in Mexico. Less than 2 years after signing the contract the cars are being delivered and service starts in the next few months. Coaches and sleepers look simple but nice.

https://www.alstom.com/mayan-train-project
“All three versions of the X'trapolisTM offer ample seating and luggage space, as well as vertical shelves on each carriage and upper shelves taken from Alstom's CoradiaTM. Since the floor is completely flat, passengers with reduced mobility will have complete freedom of movement.
This train will also use components and know-how contributed by the old Bombardier, the highlight being its lightweight Flexx Eco bogie, designed for a top speed of 176 km/h.”

 

[west point]

176kph -= 110 MPH

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I’m still blown away with what Alstrom has built in Mexico. Less than 2 years after signing the contract the cars are being delivered and service starts in the next few months. Coaches and sleepers look simple but nice.

https://www.alstom.com/mayan-train-project
“All three versions of the X'trapolisTM offer ample seating and luggage space, as well as vertical shelves on each carriage and upper shelves taken from Alstom's CoradiaTM. Since the floor is completely flat, passengers with reduced mobility will have complete freedom of movement.
This train will also use components and know-how contributed by the old Bombardier, the highlight being its lightweight Flexx Eco bogie, designed for a top speed of 176 km/h.”

In fairness, Amtrak was the first customer for the Avelias. The SNCF's version of the Avelia, called TGV Ms over there started testing on the SNCF's network as of a few months ago. It's a new product so there is bound to be issues. The X'Trapolis train family has been around since the 1990s, and any issues they had were long since worked out. They'll be new to the Mayan railway in Mexico, but hopefully they don't run into the same issues Amtrak is having with the Avelias.

 

[dlagrua]

Be interesting if Amtrak decides to use the mini cabins as a slumbercoach like car replacement, I think 40-44 pods along with 1-2 bathrooms and a shower should fit into the standard 80ft a car with 1 door gets. I doubt they would do it as a bi level but then I think we could see around 60.

I don't believe that we will ever see the Slumbercoach design again or anything like it. The design was good but every other mini room had two steps at the entrance.
The Siemens NightJet sleeper has mini cabins but IMO its a terrible design as they are far too cramped; a shelf that you must climb, slide into, lie down and not be able to sit down. They do offer a private space but not much more. Also climbing into them and closing the door would be a big chore for older folks

 

[Steve4031]

I agree about the minisuites on the night jets. However, the standard two-person rooms have potential with the in-room toilets and showers. The beds appear to be permanent in that there is no daytime configuration for the compartment. Perhaps an all-room version of this car could be created, with the only major changes being the elimination of mini-suites and the creation of rooms that have a nighttime configuration with beds down, and a daytime configuration with the beds up with two seats next to the window.

 

[UserNameRequired]

Is this a Siemens Nightjet you are all talking about?


Edit I realize now you are likely? talking about this car:
https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/nightjet-new-generation.htm

 

[Mailliw]

I don't believe that we will ever see the Slumbercoach design again or anything like it. The design was good but every other mini room had two steps at the entrance.
The Siemens NightJet sleeper has mini cabins but IMO its a terrible design as they are far too cramped; a shelf that you must climb, slide into, lie down and not be able to sit down. They do offer a private space but not much more. Also climbing into them and closing the door would be a big chore for older folks

Sadly I think your right about Slumbercoaches. Realistically 2:1 lie-flat seating is the most likely option for Amtrak to pick. It's the easiest to implement in terms of accessibility, design, and Americans are already familiar with the concept.

 

[jis]

Sadly I think your right about Slumbercoaches. Realistically 2:1 lie-flat seating is the most likely option for Amtrak to pick. It's the easiest to implement in terms of accessibility, design, and Americans are already familiar with the concept.

I wonder how many rows of those will fit in a car. How does the capacity compare with, say classic Sections. Afterall if people can sleep in open lie flat seats they should be able to sleep in completely curtain enclosed berths.

 

[GDRRiley]

I don't believe that we will ever see the Slumbercoach design again or anything like it. The design was good but every other mini room had two steps at the entrance.
The Siemens NightJet sleeper has mini cabins but IMO its a terrible design as they are far too cramped; a shelf that you must climb, slide into, lie down and not be able to sit down. They do offer a private space but not much more. Also climbing into them and closing the door would be a big chore for older folks

I disagree some sort of budget sleeping option coming back is a must, they weren't extremely popular for no reason.

I agree about the minisuites on the night jets. However, the standard two-person rooms have potential with the in-room toilets and showers. The beds appear to be permanent in that there is no daytime configuration for the compartment. Perhaps an all-room version of this car could be created, with the only major changes being the elimination of mini-suites and the creation of rooms that have a nighttime configuration with beds down, and a daytime configuration with the beds up with two seats next to the window.

in room toilets and showers are normally not a good choice as they take up too much space. better to have 2 of each at 1 end of the car.

 

[west point]

I expect that slumber coach spaces is a 15 -20 year wait. There will not be enough regular sleeping cars until then. Why buy specialized cars when one type can be used nationwide or at least single level and dual level?

 

[jis]

I expect that slumber coach spaces is a 15 -20 year wait. There will not be enough regular sleeping cars until then. Why buy specialized cars when one type can be used nationwide or at least single level and dual level?

We at present do not have a viable inexpensive Sleeping accommodation choice available at all. That is why things like Slumbercoaches and Lie Flat Seats are being discussed. Saying that such should not be considered because it will take time to get them is not really a very useful point to make. There at present is no one type of car that provides for cheap single Sleeping accommodation.

 

[jiml]

We at present do not have a viable inexpensive Sleeping accommodation choice available at all. That is why things like Slumbercoaches and Lie Flat Seats are being discussed. Saying that such should not be considered because it will take time to get them is not really a very useful point to make. There at present is no one type of car that provides for cheap single Sleeping accommodation.

Agreed. Even budget international airlines are putting in lay-flat seats with economy amenities (e.g. Zip Air), so it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to see some standard coaches fitted with non-compartment overnight seating. If they went with an existing product such as airline or luxury LD bus lay-flats there shouldn't be much of a wait at all.

 

[Mailliw]

I disagree some sort of budget sleeping option coming back is a must, they weren't extremely popular for no reason.

in room toilets and showers are normally not a good choice as they take up too much space. better to have 2 of each at 1 end of the car.

Personally I agree, but the ensuite facilities are a huge draw for passengers paying for Bedrooms. Even Nightjet has made all their new sleeping compartments ensuite. There should be a Bedroom available where 2 adults can sleep on lower berths, but that would take up almost twice the space of a Bedrooms with bunkbeds (unless you ditched the ensuite).

 

[jis]

Personally I agree, but the ensuite facilities are a huge draw for passengers paying for Bedrooms. Even Nightjet has made all their new sleeping compartments ensuite. There should be a Bedroom available where 2 adults can sleep on lower berths, but that would take up almost twice the space of a Bedrooms with bunkbeds (unless you ditched the ensuite).

When one is looking for low cost sleeping accommodation for singles, there is very little scope for providing ensuite anything. When we are talking about compartments with en suite facility attached we are talking of a different level of service from just a place to lie down and sleep. But somehow we perennially keep getting confused and starting to believe that there is some magic that can satisfy both needs at the same time, and come up with solutions that makes no one happy.

 

[west point]

A good test for lie flat accommodations might be to refurbish a few very roadworthy Amfleets as they become somewhat surplus. Amtrak has no idea what the real demand for seats are with more reasonable fares.

 

[jiml]

A good test for lie flat accommodations might be to refurbish a few very roadworthy Amfleets as they become somewhat surplus. Amtrak has no idea what the real demand for seats are with more reasonable fares.

That's really not a bad idea. The ride quality is superior to other options such as Horizons. It should also be possible to divert a few Siemens coaches already in the future chain even as a trial. "Put in these seats instead of those seats." Airlines do this all the time.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

We at present do not have a viable inexpensive Sleeping accommodation choice available at all. That is why things like Slumbercoaches and Lie Flat Seats are being discussed. Saying that such should not be considered because it will take time to get them is not really a very useful point to make. There at present is no one type of car that provides for cheap single Sleeping accommodation.

Simplest solution is to bring back some roomette prices to where they were pre pandemic and open Amtrak up to more Americans. There needs to be more of a sense of urgency in every aspect of long distance consists whether that be the new order, bringing stuff out of mothballs or wreck repairs.

 

[Willbridge]

In reading these comments about a successor to the Slumbercoach it occurred to me that the Lake Shore would be a good train to test it on, as it has a cross-section of travelers and it's only one night if they don't like it. Then I remembered that the New York Central already did that.