Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement discussion (2022 - 2024Q1)

[JWM]

They cannot get rid of the Amfleet coaches fast enough for me. Ugly 1970s design with miserable little windows. Off to the scrapyard with them!

Actually, the design dates from the 1960's and the Metroliners.

 

[cocojacoby]

I remember the first time I saw a Metroliner in New York Penn and how sleek and futuristic it looked. Yes they have small windows, but they are not ugly and most people think they are fine. They ride well and still look pretty good for all the miles and years they have worked. That said, it is time for an improved replacement.

 

[railiner]

Actually, the design dates from the 1960's and the Metroliners.

Maybe back even further, in some ways…

https://streamlinermemories.info/?p=2276

 

[Willbridge]

I remember the first time I saw a Metroliner in New York Penn and how sleek and futuristic it looked. Yes they have small windows, but they are not ugly and most people think they are fine. They ride well and still look pretty good for all the miles and years they have worked. That said, it is time for an improved replacement.

Like the RDC's, the quality of workmanship and the design proved itself by use in services that they were never intended for.

Train 26 pulls out of Portland to Salt Lake City in 1979.

 

[Awesometrainz]

Back to the topic on replacements I feel like stainless steel single levels won’t happen as they would just use venture again I think they need to go for bi levels and prob stainless steel but that’s just me . Stainless steel is prob unlikely at this point in time we have moved passed i

 

[jis]

Back to the topic on replacements I feel like stainless steel single levels won’t happen as they would just use venture again I think they need to go for bi levels and prob stainless steel but that’s just me . Stainless steel is prob unlikely at this point in time we have moved passed i

Ventures are Stainless Steel single level cars.

 

[Awesometrainz]

Oh my goodness they are I had to check and sure enough they are

 

[Paniolo Man]

Back to the topic on replacements I feel like stainless steel single levels won’t happen as they would just use venture again I think they need to go for bi levels and prob stainless steel but that’s just me . Stainless steel is prob unlikely at this point in time we have moved passed i

Stainless Steel Single Levels won't happen because Amtrak is buying bilevel equipment. It was very clearly stated in the initial RFP.

They did not specify stainless steel, though that is almost certainly what they are after.

 

[jis]

Stainless Steel Single Levels won't happen because Amtrak is buying bilevel equipment. It was very clearly stated in the initial RFP.

They did not specify stainless steel, though that is almost certainly what they are after.

Stainless Steel single level won't happen to replace bi-levels, but they certainly will happen when they get around to replacing the single level LD fleet.

 

[lrh442]

Ventures are Stainless Steel single level cars.

Are they painted for purely cosmetic reasons? Or perhaps the car shell is not entirely SS? Seems that polished SS would be lower maintenance than paint. I can't recall any smooth sided heritage/legacy equipment in polished SS, though. Maybe the smooth sided design doesn't hide imperfections as well as fluted.

 

[jis]

Are they painted for purely cosmetic reasons? Or perhaps the car shell is not entirely SS? Seems that polished SS would be lower maintenance than paint. I can't recall any smooth sided heritage/legacy equipment in polished SS, though. Maybe the smooth sided design doesn't hide imperfections as well as fluted.

They are all around Stainless Steel cars. Although nothing prevents them from being painted and indeed many possibly are, but the modern day preference appears to be to use adhesive plastic wraps (sometimes even with intricate printed patterns) in color as they are easier to maintain and replace. My previous employer HP loves this turn of events since they make the giant printers and the ink for such wraps among others.

There are plenty of smooth sided stainless steel cars. The entire EMU fleet of LIRR and MNRR would fall in that category.

 

[railiner]

There are plenty of smooth sided stainless steel cars. The entire EMU fleet of LIRR and MNRR would fall in that category.

As are the bilevel Superliners…

 

[PVD]

Other than work/service stuff and some museum stuff the whole NYC subway which is probably 6000 plus

 

[west point]

No matter what the exterior make it as much tagger proof as possible. That includes easily removed tags.

 

[lrh442]

As are the bilevel Superliners…

Superliners are fluted, no?

Edit: I guess they are a mix of fluted and flat panels.

 

[railiner]

Stainless steel car bodies were introduced by the Budd Company, back in the 1930's. Budd cornered the market due to their proprietary shot-welding fabrication process. Most of their cars wore their 'signature' fluted sides and corrugated roofs, but they did make some flat sided cars as well for some customer's...

 

[Mailliw]

No matter what the exterior make it as much tagger proof as possible. That includes easily removed tags.

Also the windows should be kept clear and easy to see through.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I love my superliners, but I don't know that it's a given that they are buying bi-levels to replace them. And I'm ok if they don't as long as whatever they buy is good and holds up well.

 

[toddinde]

Everything I’ve heard is bilevels. If you read the RFP, it doesn’t actually say bilevel, it says bilevel replacement meaning it’s a replacement for the Superliner fleet. But everything I’ve heard is they’ll be bilevels. However, they need more equipment today. They should order Ventures with long distance amenities to augment while new bilevels come on line. The process is too slow and we need new cars today!

 

[GDRRiley]

Everything I’ve heard is bilevels. If you read the RFP, it doesn’t actually say bilevel, it says bilevel replacement meaning it’s a replacement for the Superliner fleet. But everything I’ve heard is they’ll be bilevels. However, they need more equipment today. They should order Ventures with long distance amenities to augment while new bilevels come on line. The process is too slow and we need new cars today!

Ventures ordered now almost certainly won't come till the mid 2030s unless its an option on a state order placed years ago
Amtrak just needs to fix the cars they have no to get them into the 2030s

 

[toddinde]

Ventures ordered now almost certainly won't come till the mid 2030s unless its an option on a state order placed years ago
Amtrak just needs to fix the cars they have no to get them into the 2030s

I agree they have to fix the equipment, but there’s a huge problem. They’re coming off line as fast as they’re being shopped leading to no net increase in available equipment. If we’re going to get new service, we need cars sooner. I used Ventures as an example. Anything they can get building quickly would be the same concept. I’m not convinced of those timelines.

 

[GDRRiley]

I agree they have to fix the equipment, but there’s a huge problem. They’re coming off line as fast as they’re being shopped leading to no net increase in available equipment. If we’re going to get new service, we need cars sooner. I used Ventures as an example. Anything they can get building quickly would be the same concept. I’m not convinced of those timelines.

Amtrak is going to need to find a way to get more crews, Amtrak should be assuming 1-2 western LD sets a year will get badly damaged as thats been the trend for a long time.

Siemens says cars are 5+ years out so unless someone else can spool up a whole production line faster I don't see us getting any new cars before then. Even something like viewliner II which ended production 2 years ago would take a while to get going again. The quickest might be rebuilding old cars but then are you even going to find 100+ good condition shells and frames to start with, unlikely outside of maybe old commuter cars.

 

[nferr]

I remember the first time I saw a Metroliner in New York Penn and how sleek and futuristic it looked. Yes they have small windows, but they are not ugly and most people think they are fine. They ride well and still look pretty good for all the miles and years they have worked. That said, it is time for an improved replacement.

I love the Amfleets. Very relaxing feel inside. The lighting is great, they ride OK, still look nice. They've held up really well considering their age and usage. But it is time for replacement.

 

[cocojacoby]

I guess I should add some concerns here though. If the replacements are going the route of certain Amtrak trends I must say I would actually prefer the Amfleets if these conditions are what's coming:

1) Narrower less padded seats

2) Less recline to the seats

3) 50% fixed backwards facing seats

4) No seating in the Cafe Cars

I think these items would actually discourage me from taking Amtrak.

 

[Cal]

I guess I should add some concerns here though. If the replacements are going the route of certain Amtrak trends I must say I would actually prefer the Amfleets if these conditions are what's coming:

1) Narrower less padded seats

2) Less recline to the seats

3) 50% fixed backwards facing seats

4) No seating in the Cafe Cars

I think these items would actually discourage me from taking Amtrak.

I think these for intercity trains is reasonable, but I think that they’re more unlikely for long distance replacements.