Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement discussion (2022 - 2024Q1)

[PVD]

From what I have read, the coach seats are 18.3 inches wide which is as good or better than almost any domestic air coach, with considerably better seat pitch.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

From what I have read, the coach seats are 18.3 inches wide which is as good or better than almost any domestic air coach, with considerably better seat pitch.

That’s fine and all, but they are really being compared against the previous seat design used by Amtrak more so than against airliners.

 

[PVD]

That’s fine and all, but they are really being compared against the previous seat design used by Amtrak more so than against airliners.

The wider aisle which is with us like it or not makes previous seat width irrelevant.

 

[west point]

I have a relative that owns a narrow wheelchair in addition to a regular width one, He thinks that this wider aisle is ridiculous . Says it is inconveniencing may passengers for a very few if any demanding a wide chair aisle. After listening to him beginning to think his belief has merit?

 

[cocojacoby]

From what I have read, the coach seats are 18.3 inches wide which is as good or better than almost any domestic air coach, with considerably better seat pitch.

True but you are spending many more hours in Amtrak's seats so let's hope they are not the ones selected for longer distance trains.

And why does a wheelchair have to have access to the entire train? Access to an "ADA core" the way Amtrak seems to be headed in it's LD train proposal, is a practical and sensible solution.

 

[jis]

In a 120 inch wide car even if one sets aside 32"-34" for the aisle, which IIRC is all that ADA requires for a straight aisle with no turns, one is still left with 86"-88" which allows for at least a 21" wide seat. Most airline business class lie flat seats are around that width. Just because Brightline and Caldot chose to have narrower seats does not mean that Amtrak must order similar seats for all times to come.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

120" is not interior wide, but car width I believe, distract about 5 inches on each side for insulation and wall panels.

 

[jis]

120" is not interior wide, but car width I believe, distract about 5 inches on each side for insulation and wall panels.

Car width is 126" in case of the Siemens cars. I set aside 6" for the necessary side wall width.

 

[rs9]

The wider aisle which is with us like it or not makes previous seat width irrelevant.

According to Amtrak's initial ADA-compliant design ideas, only particular parts of a long distance train are proposed to have wheelchair-wide aisles, and those sections have 1x2 seating (which may be coach, "business class" or something else).

As always, design renderings are not final.

 

[Sullen Maximus]

In a 120 inch wide car even if one sets aside 32"-34" for the aisle, which IIRC is all that ADA requires for a straight aisle with no turns, one is still left with 86"-88" which allows for at least a 21" wide seat. Most airline business class lie flat seats are around that width. Just because Brightline and Caldot chose to have narrower seats does not mean that Amtrak must order similar seats for all times to come.

Completely agree with this. I just looked up what the Rocky Mountaineer does, from their own website.

"Your wheelchair needs to be 23-inches (or less) wide to fit through the doorway. From there, we can transfer you onto a 15-inch-wide wheelchair that lets you move easily down the aisle of the railcar."

So they're not even messing around trying to fit fullsize wheelchairs through the isle. I think there definitely needs to be accessibility made for people. But we don't need to make isles on trains which will be used for the next 50 years based on trying to fit full size wheel chairs.

 

[rwb1122]

They cannot get rid of the Amfleet coaches fast enough for me. Ugly 1970s design with miserable little windows. Off to the scrapyard with them!

 

[MARC Rider]

They cannot get rid of the Amfleet coaches fast enough for me. Ugly 1970s design with miserable little windows. Off to the scrapyard with them!

Now, now, they're not that bad. The seats are comfy enough, and I like the indirect lighting and relatively low height of the overhead luggage racks. And they're in pretty good shape, too, considering that they're almost 50 years old.

 

[jis]

Completely agree with this. I just looked up what the Rocky Mountaineer does, from their own website.

"Your wheelchair needs to be 23-inches (or less) wide to fit through the doorway. From there, we can transfer you onto a 15-inch-wide wheelchair that lets you move easily down the aisle of the railcar."

So they're not even messing around trying to fit fullsize wheelchairs through the isle. I think there definitely needs to be accessibility made for people. But we don't need to make isles on trains which will be used for the next 50 years based on trying to fit full size wheel chairs.

I am not sure you agree with what I wrote even though you say so. I am saying that the ADA required width for the aisle does not preclude seats that are at least 20" and perhaps even 21" wide. I don't think we should be fighting ADA because I philosophically believe that if we can give universal accessibility to people using standard wheelchairs while only minimally inconveniencing the rest, then we should try our best to do so. So it would appear that in spite of saying that you agree, actually the rest of your posts suggests that we disagree completely And that is OK.... everyone to their own opinions.

 

[GDRRiley]

I am not sure you agree with what I wrote even though you say so. I am saying that the ADA required width for the aisle does not preclude seats that are at least 20" and perhaps even 21" wide. I don't think we should be fighting ADA because I philosophically believe that if we can give universal accessibility to people using standard wheelchairs while only minimally inconveniencing the rest, then we should try our best to do so. So it would appear that in spite of saying that you agree, actually the rest of your posts suggests that we disagree completely And that is OK.... everyone to their own opinions.

old cars look to have 6-9in taken up by the sides, I haven't seen a detailed enough diagram to tell what some newer cars use. I agree we should be able to get closer to 20in wide seats especially if we only see side armrests with no center with a 10ft6in wide car and 32in isles.

 

[railiner]

Now, now, they're not that bad. The seats are comfy enough, and I like the indirect lighting and relatively low height of the overhead luggage racks. And they're in pretty good shape, too, considering that they're almost 50 years old.

Agree. And with a minimum of maintenance, I'd bet they'd still be around when the replacement cars are done for...

 

[MARC Rider]

Agree. And with a minimum of maintenance, I'd bet they'd still be around when the replacement cars are done for...

When they retire them, I hope they sell a bunch to various tourist railroads so we can continue riding them, even if at pretty low speeds.

 

[railiner]

When they retire them, I hope they sell a bunch to various tourist railroads so we can continue riding them, even if at pretty low speeds.

I hope they keep them in serviceable condition to supplement the regular fleet…

 

[John Bredin]

When they retire them, I hope they sell a bunch to various tourist railroads so we can continue riding them, even if at pretty low speeds.

I hope they retire them from scheduled service but keep them for charters and specials to state fairs, sports events, and conventions. All those college football rivalries beg for a train of alums going to the big game (not a bowl, "just" a game between schools with taunting chants passed down through generations), who are more worried about finding a parking space than a quick trip and would love getting the party started early with drinking but no driving.

 

[Brian Battuello]

considering that they're almost 50 years old.

Can't believe we are still riding around in coaches built when I was 17.

Then again, I've also done multiple trips on the Canadian...

 

[railiner]

Budd-built cars last…

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Agree. And with a minimum of maintenance, I'd bet they'd still be around when the replacement cars are done for...

There an interesting Q&A with (apparently) an Amtrak mechanic on the NEC, on reddit - amtrak. The Amfleets do need regular repairs and maintenance by experienced people. They are checked every night.

 

[west point]

I hope they retire them from scheduled service but keep them for charters and specials to state fairs, sports events, and conventions.

That is especially able to use in off season times. At the Thanksgiving -thru New Years the equipment can fill out for that time's demand! Amtrak can use that equipment for expanding the safety patrol runs that are only going from West Palm to WASH. There were many school charters as well that could be repeated.

However there is the big problem that Amtrak does not have enough yard space to store the idle cars if none of the above is done. The one exception is BEECH where many yard tracks could be constructed.

 

[Sullen Maximus]

There an interesting Q&A with (apparently) an Amtrak mechanic on the NEC, on reddit - amtrak. The Amfleets do need regular repairs and maintenance by experienced people. They are checked every night.

Although apparently he only deals with amfleet cars. No long distance ones, but still an interesting read.

 

[daybeers]

Amtrak can use that equipment for expanding the safety patrol runs that are only going from West Palm to WASH

Yes it would be nice if scheduled subsidized service wasn't cancelled for a charter trip but in fact used an additional consist as appropriate

 

[user 14106]

Yes it would be nice if scheduled subsidized service wasn't cancelled for a charter trip but in fact used an additional consist as appropriate

It really isn’t that big of a deal in my opinion given the time of year they do it and just two days in each direction. They pay decent money for that - they’re basically buying every revenue slot on those trains and then some. And every single station on the route except for Jesup GA is served by another train frequency and I’m sure they probably book it early enough that any affected early birds can be accommodated on the Star or Palmetto.