Long Distance (LD) fleet replacement RFP discussion H2 2024

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If and when the new bi-level equipment order arrives, would the order be large enough to replace the single-level Capital-Star with bi-level equipment? Or replace the single-level train with old (but refurbished?) Superliner cars rendered surplus by the new equipment? In other words, are there any other restrictions south of DC that would prevent bi-level on the routes?
 
Your question really has3 separate answers depending on how the political situation in the US turns out the next 4 years.
1. The Superliner - 3 order will be cancelled/
2. The politicians will wake up and force Amtrak to place proper capacity on not only superliner trains but single level routes as well. If this happens there are not going to be enough revenue cars to meet demand for IMO - 10 years.
3/ The East river tunnel rehab will be finished in 3 - 5 years and consist might go to what is happening now.
 
John Santos said:
If and when the new bi-level equipment order arrives, would the order be large enough to replace the single-level Capital-Star with bi-level equipment? Or replace the single-level train with old (but refurbished?) Superliner cars rendered surplus by the new equipment? In other words, are there any other restrictions south of DC that would prevent bi-level on the routes?
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I think we don’t know enough about the capitol - star combination and its duration to really speculate on that. We also don’t know yet what Amtrak is going to do for single level equipment. A decision about the Viewliner Is is the big factor in how they will go. They do have an option that they can exercise with Siemens to replace the Amfleet IIs if they decide to stick with the Viewliners going forward. In Amtrak’s 5 year plan document the decision about the Viewliners will primarily drive whether they do a new single level procurement or an option.
 
Lack of bedrooms, lack of table space for coach spaces. Not sure if the two lounges for two class of tickets. Easy thing to cut, and to be criticized as a waste of funds, or worse.
 
According to the spec they’re calling for the premium coach cars to have the skylight windows also with an optional add to have them in standard coaches too - so if the coaches get “sightseer” windows it would be less of an issue of needing to go to another car for the sightseeing view. Its far too early to conclusive state what the end product of the first class lounge will entail and whether coach would have a way to access it.
 
It is my understanding that Amtrak hired STV to advice them on the bi-level replacement program. (STV previously advised Amtrak on the Siemens' AIRO Procurement and Metra on their Alstom coach replacement project).

Also, according to SEPTA's upcoming board meeting agenda, they are expected to award Hitachi Rail the contract for their M5 subway train-set program. Thus, I am wondering, does this information make it more likely that one of these three manufacturers will be picked (instead of CAF, Kawasaki, or Stadler)?
 
Johnny said:
It is my understanding that Amtrak hired STV to advice them on the bi-level replacement program. (STV previously advised Amtrak on the Siemens' AIRO Procurement and Metra on their Alstom coach replacement project).

Also, according to SEPTA's upcoming board meeting agenda, they are expected to award Hitachi Rail the contract for their M5 subway train-set program. Thus, I am wondering, does this information make it more likely that one of these three manufacturers will be picked (instead of CAF, Kawasaki, or Stadler)?
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I believe STV will offer Amtrak needed guidance in choosing the best bid. I hope that they are impartial to manufacturers, though Amtrak OIG is also watching this procurement very closely and should ensure that nobody plays favorites. Siemens, Alstom, CAF, Stadler, Hitachi, and Kawasaki are all great manufacturers who will offer Amtrak amazing value on these LD cars.

I still see Stadler as a long shot, just because they aren't as established in the US yet. I have seen their aggressive factory expansion plans which should be breaking ground shortly. With or without Amtrak, Stadler will be tripling the size of their facility in Salt Lake City. Of course I believe Alstom has the best chance since they have the facilities, people, and precedent. None of the other 5 have as much top-down experience with LD Bilevel cars.

I do think Hitachi and Kawasaki will be at a disadvantage because they mostly build metro trains and rarely branch out into other markets in the US. I do believe that CAF's Viewliner trouble will seriously harm their chances. Amtrak should be adverse to Siemens on this one because they don't want to monopolize their fleet.

I really do believe it will come down to Alstom and Stadler. And I'd love to see these cars come out of Salt Lake City, so I'm still rooting for Stadler.
 
MODERATOR'S NOTE: About a dozen and a half posts about current Amtrak consists have been moved out of this thread and into the current Amtrak consists thread:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-consists-2024.87550/

Please post discussion of current Amtrak consists on the thread on Amtrak consists and leave this RFP thread for discussing only matters pertaining to the progress of the RFP process.

Thank you for you understanding, cooperation and participation.
 
Paniolo Man said:
I believe STV will offer Amtrak needed guidance in choosing the best bid. I hope that they are impartial to manufacturers, though Amtrak OIG is also watching this procurement very closely and should ensure that nobody plays favorites. Siemens, Alstom, CAF, Stadler, Hitachi, and Kawasaki are all great manufacturers who will offer Amtrak amazing value on these LD cars.

I still see Stadler as a long shot, just because they aren't as established in the US yet. I have seen their aggressive factory expansion plans which should be breaking ground shortly. With or without Amtrak, Stadler will be tripling the size of their facility in Salt Lake City. Of course I believe Alstom has the best chance since they have the facilities, people, and precedent. None of the other 5 have as much top-down experience with LD Bilevel cars.

I do think Hitachi and Kawasaki will be at a disadvantage because they mostly build metro trains and rarely branch out into other markets in the US. I do believe that CAF's Viewliner trouble will seriously harm their chances. Amtrak should be adverse to Siemens on this one because they don't want to monopolize their fleet.

I really do believe it will come down to Alstom and Stadler. And I'd love to see these cars come out of Salt Lake City, so I'm still rooting for Stadler.
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Standler I doubt will happen due to them, not making stuff with stainless steel .
 
Awesometrainz said:
Standler I doubt will happen due to them, not making stuff with stainless steel .
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Stadler made stainless steel bilevels for Rocky Mountaineer. I also have a pretty strong hunch that we will hear about an existing stainless steel product being brought to the US market VERY soon.
 
I had previously believed that the close date for bids was back in May based on an article I read sometime in the spring. I have been made aware that the bid window was extended until November, this likely means that selection of a preferred vendor is likely well into 2025.
 
Paniolo Man said:
I had previously believed that the close date for bids was back in May based on an article I read sometime in the spring. I have been made aware that the bid window was extended until November, this likely means that selection of a preferred vendor is likely well into 2025.
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The date was extended to November because no vendor placed a bid, and from what I hear, said in no uncertain terms that what Amtrak wants cannot be delivered for the price they are willing to pay in the timeframe that they insist on. So it is a bit more complicated than just a slippage of a date. It is possible that the vendors have now had ample experience learning of the Amtrak/FRA etc. quagmire, and are no longer willing to risk their own resources in it. Given the amount of trouble that they have had trying to deliver allegedly off the shelf stuff to Amtrak, I would understand why they are leery of doing something that is clearly not off the shelf at all.

Anyway, the beat must go on, so may be time to get a large consignment of popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show :(
 
https://bureauofadventure.substack....aem_mAjP_1bxM3XAYdMPLraHdw&triedRedirect=true

Disappointing, arguably Amtraks worst management in its history gets to make the biggest LD order in its history. I could see this leading to more trains like the Texas Eagle and the 3 or 4 “experimental, or super expensive” trains that Gardner and Anderson talked about in 2018. No coach lounge would be a deal breaker along with the airline type seating.
 
TheMalahat said:
Please play this music while reading my reply:

Via's long distance procurement closes in November too?

Coincidence?
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Would this indicate that VIA is now in for bi-level equipment for LD service? Afterall the Amtrak RFP is for bi-level equipment. They are still deciding on the single level equipment RFP.

Amtrakfflyer said:
https://bureauofadventure.substack....aem_mAjP_1bxM3XAYdMPLraHdw&triedRedirect=true

Disappointing, arguably Amtraks worst management in its history gets to make the biggest LD order in its history. I could see this leading to more trains like the Texas Eagle and the 3 or 4 “experimental, or super expensive” trains that Gardner and Anderson talked about in 2018. No coach lounge would be a deal breaker along with the airline type seating.
Click to expand...
That article appears to be commentary on the FOIA document that has been discussed here extensively. It is a review of that document by someone, and at least has more complete illustrations than the original FOIA document had, though an updated one with full diagrams was posted in this thread later. The FOIA that is the basis for all this was filed by one of our members.
 
jis said:
Would this indicate that VIA is now in for bi-level equipment for LD service? Afterall the Amtrak RFP is for bi-level equipment. They are still deciding on the single level equipment RFP.


That article appears to be commentary on the FOIA document that has been discussed here extensively. It is a review of that document by someone, and at least has more complete illustrations than the original FOIA document had, though an updated one with full diagrams was posted in this thread later. The FOIA that is the basis for all this was filed by one of our members.
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I have been a little annoyed all morning seeing everyone talking about how this leaked like we haven't been discussing it here for months.
 
Steve4031 said:
I am annoyed that Amtrak hasn't figured out that it's best to go with something that has somewhat of a proven track record. Would it be possible for Seimens to produce a Nightjet-type sleeper that is laid out more like a Viewliner sleeper?
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Many agree with you, but many others want Amtrak to continue having bilevel cars outside the routes to and from NYC. Since it's been years since Superliners were ordered and Amtrak is under pressure (legal requirement?) to improve accessibility for the disabled, a bilevel with "somewhat of a proven track record" is unlikely.

Amtrak does seem to want a certain amount of uniformity on the single-level side. The state-ordered Ventures aren't that different than the Airos, and maybe new single-level LD equipment will be done as you say.
 

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