Malaysia Airlines loses contact with Flight - 239 pax/crew

[jis]

I must say that Malaysian Immigration Border Posts have a little work to do. They were unaware of stolen passports that were reported to Interpol in 2012 and 2013? When were they planning to become aware I wonder.

Apparently even Malaysian Airlines was not particularly aware of them, or perhaps they do not do much checking of the traveler information that they collect, or perhaps they do not collect such after all. Who knows?

I must also say that it is really getting stranger by each hour that they are unable to find any parts of the plane anywhere. Perhaps they are looking at the wrong place? Afterall what happened to the plane after contacts was lost is not exactly known too well, is it?

 

[Blackwolf]

It certainly does seem to get a bit stranger. CNN is reporting in regard to the stolen passports:

The two passengers who used the passports in question appear to have bought their tickets together.

The tickets were bought from China Southern Airlines at identical prices, paid in Thailand's baht currency, according to China's official e-ticket verification system Travelsky. The ticket numbers are contiguous, which indicates the tickets were issued together.

The two tickets booked with China Southern Airlines both start in Kuala Lumpur, flying to Beijing, and then onward to Amsterdam. The Italian passport's ticket continues to Copenhagen, the Austrian's to Frankfurt.

 

[Texan Eagle]

I find it more and more hard to believe as hours pass by. Its been about 48 hours now, there are about 40 ships and 25 airplanes engaged in search and rescue effort and yet absolutely no clue of where the plane is or what happened to it? A 777 is not exactly a small thing that can disappear into thin air, so what is going on?

 

[GG-1]

I find it more and more hard to believe as hours pass by. Its been about 48 hours now, there are about 40 ships and 25 airplanes engaged in search and rescue effort and yet absolutely no clue of where the plane is or what happened to it? A 777 is not exactly a small thing that can disappear into thin air, so what is going on?

Hey maybe it was hijacked by an spaceship! h34r: :angry2: :giggle: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[XHRTSP]

I find it more and more hard to believe as hours pass by. Its been about 48 hours now, there are about 40 ships and 25 airplanes engaged in search and rescue effort and yet absolutely no clue of where the plane is or what happened to it? A 777 is not exactly a small thing that can disappear into thin air, so what is going on?

These things take time, they always do.

 

[SarahZ]

More updates:

http://rantsofasassystew.com/2014/03/floating-object-spotted-by-vietnams-navy-in-gulf-of-thailand/

http://rantsofasassystew.com/2014/03/vietnam-searchers-report-spotting-plane-debris-officials-say-they-found-piece-of-door-airplane-tail/

http://rantsofasassystew.com/2014/03/group-claims-disappearance-of-plane-was-political-act/

 

[SarahZ]

I've never traveled with a passport, so I always assumed your passport was scanned somehow. That's why I was surprised that nobody realized it was a stolen passport. I figured they would scan them or verify them against a database, something like that.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I find it more and more hard to believe as hours pass by. Its been about 48 hours now, there are about 40 ships and 25 airplanes engaged in search and rescue effort and yet absolutely no clue of where the plane is or what happened to it? A 777 is not exactly a small thing that can disappear into thin air, so what is going on?

As an old Navy hand who Sailed in Harms Way in these Waters back in the Vietnam War Era, I assure you that it isn't that easy to see and Locate Ships and Planes in these Waters! Our Electronic Equipment (I was a Radioman) was World Class for the Time but we still relied on "Lookouts" to see Potential Threats to our Ships! (Remember the USS Maddox and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident!?)

Also our Search and Rescue Units had difficulty in Locating downed Planes and Choppers, it was really a matter of Luck lots of times in finding them!

Hopefully they'll Locate the Debris soon, but it will be a matter of Luck more than Science IMO!!! Last report I heard was that 3 American Citizens were aboard but it was Mostly Chinese and Aussies headed for China!

 

[jis]

I've never traveled with a passport, so I always assumed your passport was scanned somehow. That's why I was surprised that nobody realized it was a stolen passport. I figured they would scan them or verify them against a database, something like that.

Since Malaysia actually still stamps entry and exit on Passports, they would have looked it up in some database. Of course the result of such a look up would only be as good as the quality of data in the database. Apparently said database had not been updated with information from Interpol in the last couple of years. OTOH same station also detected a Russian with a stolen Passport and stopped him from boarding the same flight. So it is kind of hard to tell what exactly went on there. The Prime Minister of Malaysia has said that an investigation of the border check post at KUL is being started to figure out why and how stolen Passports are going undetected there.

 

[CHamilton]

How likely is it that the folks with stolen passports went "undetected" because they knew who (and/or how much) to bribe, and the Russian with a stolen passport did not?

 

[Ryan]

I find it more and more hard to believe as hours pass by. Its been about 48 hours now, there are about 40 ships and 25 airplanes engaged in search and rescue effort and yet absolutely no clue of where the plane is or what happened to it? A 777 is not exactly a small thing that can disappear into thin air, so what is going on?

As an old Navy hand who Sailed in Harms Way in these Waters back in the Vietnam War Era, I assure you that it isn't that easy to see and Locate Ships and Planes in these Waters! Our Electronic Equipment (I was a Radioman) was World Class for the Time but we still relied on "Lookouts" to see Potential Threats to our Ships! (Remember the USS Maddox and the Gulf of Tonkin Incident!?)
Also our Search and Rescue Units had difficulty in Locating downed Planes and Choppers, it was really a matter of Luck lots of times in finding them!

Hopefully they'll Locate the Debris soon, but it will be a matter of Luck more than Science IMO!!! Last report I heard was that 3 American Citizens were aboard but it was Mostly Chinese and Aussies headed for China!

Yep.

It's a big, big ocean and a downed aircraft is very very small. The parts of it that are still floating are even smaller still. When an airplane falls out of the sky, bad things happen to it (and that's assuming it fell out of the sky in one piece - if it exploded in midair, it gets even harder).

Add to that ships don't move all that fast. Time-distance problems are a harsh mistress.

It's quite likely that it's going to take weeks, and what is found will be found by sonar.

 

[MattW]

We're also assuming it hit the water relatively intact. If it was destroyed in mid-air, the debris could be anywhere, and very small, and subject to the upper-atmospheric winds which could reach as high as 120kts or higher at that altitude.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

How likely is it that the folks with stolen passports went "undetected" because they knew who (and/or how much) to bribe, and the Russian with a stolen passport did not?

That might be true. Things come at a price.

We're also assuming it hit the water relatively intact. If it was destroyed in mid-air, the debris could be anywhere, and very small, and subject to the upper-atmospheric winds which could reach as high as 120kts or higher at that altitude.

Still, I don't think AF447 took this long to find, even though it crashed into the South Atlantic.

 

[jis]

For AF 447 the final position of failure was much better known due to the automatic ACARS messages. Apparently MH does not do ACARS or for some reason all such messages received have been protected carefully as deep secret. Remember ACARS is an additional service that airlines may subscribe to. It is not a mandatory item.

Since it is not known what caused the cessation of the ADS-B stream (one reason could simply be getting outside of radar coverage) and hence it is also not known which direction it continued to fly and how far. That is what is adding to the challenge. Add to that the fact that possibly the only radar coverage available in some parts of that world is from military radars that the owners of such facilities may not be ready to disclose the existence of. And you have a real witch's brew.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

For AF 447 the final position of failure was much better known due to the automatic ACARS messages. Apparently MH does not do ACARS or for some reason all such messages received have been protected carefully as deep secret. Remember ACARS is an additional service that airlines may subscribe to. It is not a mandatory item.

Since it is not known what caused the cessation of the ADS-B stream (one reason could simply be getting outside of radar coverage) and hence it is also not known which direction it continued to fly and how far. That is what is adding to the challenge. Add to that the fact that possibly the only radar coverage available in some parts of that world is from military radars that the owners of such facilities may not be ready to disclose the existence of. And you have a real witch's brew.

But didn't the Vietnamese disclose that they detected the plane going down in the Gulf of Thailand with military radar? If so, how come no one has found it yet?

 

[jis]

Just because some Vietnamese General said something does not necessarily make it so. In Asia you always wait for material proof.

And the fact still remains, it is still a vast ocean and they are looking for a needle in a haystack. The oil slick is itself 16 km long and who knows how wide. That is a darned big area.

I am surprised though that in even such shallow water there is not a hint of the electronic beep from the black boxes. But hey, as I said earlier, maybe they are searching in a completely wrong place? We won't know for sure until we know.

 

[jimhudson]

Asked and Answered SW! (And if you haven't been at Sea or flown a Plane you have no idea how hard it is to spot them! And were talking about Governments that are known for secrecy and paranoia plus this area of SE Asia is somewhat of a Black Hole!

 

[Anderson]

Just a counter-point on the terrorist possibility: Stolen passports could mean anything from terrorism (of course) to immigration fraud of some sort, or anything else related to organized crime.

 

[XHRTSP]

Just a counter-point on the terrorist possibility: Stolen passports could mean anything from terrorism (of course) to immigration fraud of some sort, or anything else related to organized crime.

To second what you said, absolutely right. Stolen passports are irrelevant at this point. First you prove what caused the crash, and then and only then if terrorism is shown to be in play you start looking if the passports are connected.

 

[railiner]

Just because some Vietnamese General said something does not necessarily make it so. In Asia you always wait for material proof.

And the fact still remains, it is still a vast ocean and they are looking for a needle in a haystack. The oil slick is itself 16 km long and who knows how wide. That is a darned big area.

I am surprised though that in even such shallow water there is not a hint of the electronic beep from the black boxes. But hey, as I said earlier, maybe they are searching in a completely wrong place? We won't know for sure until we know.

Yes.....I am surprised too, not a peep from one of the ELT's or modern equivalent, that a 777 is equiped with....these should work by either high g-force as in an impact, or by submersion...these would confirm the downing of the aircraft, and would make short work of finding its location any where on Earth.....

 

[SarahZ]

More on the passports:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/no-terror-group-claims-credit-missing-jet-official-says-n48481

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Just because some Vietnamese General said something does not necessarily make it so. In Asia you always wait for material proof.

And the fact still remains, it is still a vast ocean and they are looking for a needle in a haystack. The oil slick is itself 16 km long and who knows how wide. That is a darned big area.

I am surprised though that in even such shallow water there is not a hint of the electronic beep from the black boxes. But hey, as I said earlier, maybe they are searching in a completely wrong place? We won't know for sure until we know.

Yes.....I am surprised too, not a peep from one of the ELT's or modern equivalent, that a 777 is equiped with....these should work by either high g-force as in an impact, or by submersion...these would confirm the downing of the aircraft, and would make short work of finding its location any where on Earth.....

They must be searching in the wrong area, possibly the oil slick was from another source. Or poosibly the Vietnamese caught an electronic signal but refused to publicize it.

Still, this long search seemms increasingly ridiculous. Hopefully by the end of today in local time.

 

[railiner]

I cannot see any reason why the Vietnamese would not publicize their reception of a signal, except the highly unlikely scenario that they were somehow complicit in the downing of the aircraft.....

 

[Devil's Advocate]

At first this sounded a bit like Air France 447, but without ACARS or ADS-B alerts or any sort of discovery it's starting to sound more like Varig 967. Personally I think that the two most likely answers thus far are...

1. Intentional or forced actions by the crew

2. Controlled decent during a fast spreading catastrophic fire.

Intentional actions by the crew because careful piloting with manually disabled location and communication hardware could allow for stealth movement to other areas.

Catastrophic fire because it could start in the electrical communications areas and burn through much of the aircraft during the decent leaving little in the way of immediately recognizable debris.

I cannot see any reason why the Vietnamese would not publicize their reception of a signal, except the highly unlikely scenario that they were somehow complicit in the downing of the aircraft.....

Now that would be a fascinating (if rather unlikely) discovery. Aircraft is downed accidentally and cleaned up before international search reaches area. Maybe it impacted an unmanned drone at some point?

 

[CHamilton]

The mystery of flight MH370: How on earth, with all our technology, do we lose a giant plane?