Maple Leaf border check

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Just to add to this, part of the reason for automated systems is to reduce staffing, so if/when such systems fail there are unlikely to be enough humans available to process even close to the same number of people on short notice.

As a sidebar, I recently used the e-gates for Immigration in the UK (currently limited to some countries) and thought it was a great service. However, UK friends and online posters report vastly different experiences when the gates are down or operating incorrectly.
The thing is, at least at Heathrow even with seemingly full staffing I have spent two hours getting through the manual inspection lines. So if gates fail it could be that bad or worse. But when the gates work it take less than 10 minutes. No matter what the situation is if the gates fail, I would opt for the automatic gates every time, and hope that they don't fail too often. I think that generally holds true for most things that are progressively getting automated at airports and even at train stations.
 
Although it's an extra expense, would it be possible to ship larger luggage ahead using UPS or Fedex. and then pick it up in Toronto or Montreal?
Shipping outbound from the US is slow and expensive so this would likely double or triple the travel cost and necessitate waiting several days for your parcel to reach and clear customs. I've looked at this several times but the cost was always much worse than whatever the airline was charging. On the way back it's often cheaper shipping to the US but declaring every item is tedious and the US no longer accepts physical documentation (yay for automation).

Just to add to this, part of the reason for automated systems is to reduce staffing, so if/when such systems fail there are unlikely to be enough humans available to process even close to the same number of people on short notice. As a sidebar, I recently used the e-gates for Immigration in the UK (currently limited to some countries) and thought it was a great service. However, UK friends and online posters report vastly different experiences when the gates are down or operating incorrectly.
Absolutely. When automation works it tends to work well, but when it fails it tends to fail horribly.
 
I hear you. I still do ride the Maple Leaf but I drive to Buffalo and park at Depew to board it. Northbound, I avoid all the NYP nonsense by taking the later train back to Depew. I realize this isn't an option for everyone.
As a train person, I would like to see the train be a more competitive option. But really, for anyone who lives within an hour or two of the border, which includes a large percentage of the population on the Canadian side, it's much easier to just drive across. You save the delay of 1-2 hours at the border as well as having to schlep your luggage off and on again at Niagara Falls. I think that's one reason you almost never see anyone boarding the New York-bound train at St. Catherines, for instance. And the parking at Depew is free.

There's also the issue of both the Maple Leaf and Adirondack arriving too late for any VIA connections to places beyond Toronto and Montreal. To connect to the Ocean from New York requires nearly a full day's layover in Montreal. Because of this, I've often driven north to St. Lambert or the Longueuil Metro, even though both require me being stuck behind the wheel for three-plus hours.
 
A few thoughts on the NYP process for the Canada bound trains, manifest requirements, and how the border crossing is handled on various trains.

I have ridden all the cross border trains currently operating. The Cascades most frequently, I have been riding it quite regularly since service to Vancouver started in the 1990s. I have ridden the Maple Leaf annually for about the last 10 years. I've ridden the Adirondack about three times if memory serves.

I'll start by comparing/contrasting Amtrak’s document inspection on the Cascades versus the Maple Leaf and Adirondack. At Seattle, there is no separate Canada bound check in like in New York. Documents are checked at the boarding gate. While the Maple Leaf and Adirondack have more US intermediate stops, the Cascades have them, too and a large number of passengers are headed to Bellingham, so there is good mix of local and international passengers on the Cascades. At intermediate stops, documents are checked at boarding or at ticket lift, same as the New York trains (on the Cascades, at least, this varies). The stupid US-Canada baggage tags have never been used on the Cascades. Fulfilling the APIS manifest requirements seems to have nothing to do with the document check. Even the separate check in at New York all they do is stamp your boarding pass and hand you the stupid tag(s). The manifest of people on board is almost certainly a product of the ticket scans, not the document check. The process at Toronto also does not require a separate check in, per se. At Toronto these days they separate the boarding line into local and US passengers. A VIA employee comes down the US line before boarding opens, checking documents and handing out the stupid tags. New York is entirely unique in the separate check in.

Now, border inspections. On the Cascades, everything except US bound Customs inspections is done at Vancouver, since the train runs sealed in Canada. The train pulls into Pacific Central Station's "train jail", a fenced platform to provide a secured Port of Entry area. On arrival at Vancouver, detraining is not initially permitted, the doors remain closed. All checked baggage is unloaded and placed on the platform, then detraining takes place car by car, BC first. There is a canopy over the platform on the station end, but it does not extend very far, so if the load is heavy and the line for Canadian inspection is long it will extend past the canopy and you are lined up outside, frequently in the rain. Going to the US, the check in line becomes the US Immigration inspection line after passing check in/ticket scan. After passing US Immigration, you go out to the train jail and board. If you have checked baggage, you check it trainside after US Immigration, the VIA baggage desk in the station doesn't check Amtrak bags. Vancouver still does not do full US Preclearance, including Customs, although recent changes to the treaty now permit it for rail. I've heard the facilities in Vancouver need to be expanded to do that. The southbound trains stop beside the Peach Arch US Port of Entry at Blaine and CBP agents come over from there and walk through the train, picking up the Customs forms, asking question and checking documents. Sometimes they have a sniffer dog. You are not allowed to leave your seat during the inspections until the CBP agents leave the train. It is fairly quick, though, unlike the Adirondack.

On the Maple Leaf, the inspections take place at the border, Niagara Falls, NY and Niagara Falls, ON inside each stations Port of Entry facilities. I know there has been a lot of complaining about that, but I actually do not mind it much on the New York side. The facility is new(ish), large, has high platforms and platform canopies, ramps, and a seating area if you want to briefly take a load off once you reach it in the line. Ontario side, not so much, it has a low platform without a canopy, the facility is old and small, jimmied into the station in a space not really suited for the current, more stringent, inspection practices. You do have to wrestle your bags up and down the vestibule steps and sometimes are lining up outside.

The interminable dwells, 99 minutes for customs inspections at Niagara Falls, NY, have recently been tightened up. They knocked off a half hour, the dwell has been reduced to 68 minutes. The Leaf is now scheduled into NYP 39 minutes earlier. 9:16 rather than 9:55.

The experience of the inspections at both Vancouver and Niagara Falls is pretty much the same as that entering by air. The biggest difference actually seems to be the passengers to me. The last time I crossed at Niagara Falls, NY I was behind and older woman whose luggage consisted of about a bazillion plastic grocery bags on a foldable cart. It took forever to get them all through the X Ray machine and unloaded. The CBP agent was remarkably patient with her though. But she'd never have gotten onboard an airplane with that pile of grocery bags.

The CBSA agents at Vancouver's Pacific Central Station seem to have mellowed since rail service resumed, BTW. The bunch Canada apparently hired from the Stasi appear to be gone. Maybe they transferred them to handle buses at Pacific Highway.

The Adirondack on board inspection is interminable and you are stuck in the seat for most of that time. The US side I recall much more clearly which makes me think it was significantly more unpleasant, as Canada didn't make an impression. They take two sweeps, one for Immigration and one for Customs. They were far apart in time, it wasn't one team following the other. My impression was the Immigration team finished their primary inspections before the Customs team started. Since it was taking so long, the Immigration team was long past and I did not realize that there would be another team, so I got up to use the restroom. Unfortunately that was right when the Customs team entered the car. To say the least, they were not happy to find me out of my seat and were not shy in expressing it. After that I played it safe and didn't get up until the train started moving.

Personally, I like the inspection at the on arrival/departure best, with Preclearance as apparently most others do.

That is only practical where the train runs sealed in Canada which is only possible for Vancouver and Montreal. Montreal by skipping St. Lambert and building another "train jail" at Gare Central. Toronto is too far inside Canada. Service that far into Canada would require a Canadian rail operator, like VIA or Metrolinx, and they'd require the ability to make intermediate stops, as the Maple Leaf does, the International did and any future Chicago-Toronto service would.

That leaves inspection at the border. Either inside a station or onboard. While I know many here don't share this opinion, I honestly prefer the station option, especially with an adequate and well designed facility like that at Niagara Falls, NY. At least with that you are free to wander about after you clear. I really hated being stuck in my seat for what seemed like forever on the Adirondack.
 
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Big bags, small bags, wheelchairs, walkers, strollers, elderly folks, kids, people with disabilities -- all must pile off at Niagara Falls. It works OK for physically fit adults with light luggage for a weekend trip, but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else. To connect to our last trip on the Canadian, we took the Adirondack to Montreal, even though it added a day to the itinerary, just because the onboard customs inspection was so much easier to deal with.
Thank you. I appreciate your sharing this information.
 
Missing from you're Adirondack boarder description (I think, my main memory was in 2008): US-bound anyone without a US or Canadian passport was sent to the cafe care for further processing.

Canada didn't due to this and I remember a British man being taken off the train by CBSA (saying I was mistaken) who was trying to briefly visit Canada thinking it would reset his 90 day US Visa Waiver which he was about to overstay, its 90 days out of 365 days. For US Citizens to Canada its 180 out of 365 days.
 
Just passed Customs into the USA at the Niagara Falls, NY station.

1. It's a high level platform! Makes it a lot easier to get all your stuff off the train.
2. The CBP folks were pleasant and efficient today.e to get back to
3. They have a nice set of ramps to get you fron the platform to the lower level where CBP does its thing. Once you pass, your only choices to get back to the station are stairs ar a very slow elevator. Considering that nearly all the passengers have large suitcases, I would think that another set of ramps or at least an escalator would be a good idea.

Holy cow! We got into Niagara Falls about a half hour late, but they did the customs inspection so quickly, we left on schedule!
 
Holy cow! We got into Niagara Falls about a half hour late, but they did the customs inspection so quickly, we left on schedule!
My last experience at NFL with CBP was good too. This was in 2019. That was the first time I used a Passport Card to enter the US!
 
My last experience at NFL with CBP was good too. This was in 2019. That was the first time I used a Passport Card to enter the US!
One nice thing about this crossing is that they're not set up to collect duty. At least that's what the nice agent told me when I declared a liter and a half of assorted alcoholic beverages. The dog was sniffing one of my bags, very interested, but I think it had to do more with the package of pepperoni sticks, not the possibility of finding ant controlled substance.
 
The check by CBSA at NFS is not nearly as convienent as the one by CBP at NFL. The platforms are low level, making it inconvienent carrying luggage. Once cleared, you have to go outside and walk around the building to get to the small and spartan waiting room.

I wish CBSA would take advantage of their Preclearance rights and move their operation to the much better facility at NFL, which was designed with their use in mind.

At least that's what the nice agent told me when I declared a liter and a half of assorted alcoholic beverages.
You bought liquor in Ontario? Are you out of your mind or on an unlimited budget?😉
 
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One nice thing about this crossing is that they're not set up to collect duty. At least that's what the nice agent told me when I declared a liter and a half of assorted alcoholic beverages.
Inability to assess or collect does not mean importation is free. It means you're expected to leave untaxed dutiable goods behind or they become contraband. Bringing 1.5L is within the limit of duty exception (last I checked) so no risk or harm either way.
 
Inability to assess or collect does not mean importation is free. It means you're expected to leave untaxed dutiable goods behind or they become contraband. Bringing 1.5L is within the limit of duty exception (last I checked) so no risk or harm either way.
Irrespective of whether or not a Port of Entry is equipped to collect duty, inspecting officers will often waive duty if the amount is not significant. What is important is everything must be declared. BTW, that especially goes for alcohol, legally any amount at all must be proactively declared whether or not the inspecting agent asks about it. If the inspecting CBP officer waives duty for declared items, continued possession and importation of those items is perfectly legal.

BTW, the personal exemption for liquor is indeed one liter. It is two liters returning from certain Carribean and South American countries, but not from Canada. It appears that @MARC Rider declared the alcohol and the inspecting CBP officer waived duty on the dutiable 1/2 liter, so his importation of 1.5 liters of alcohol duty free was completely legal.

Finally, as far as alcohol goes, it doesn't matter if you originally bought it in the States and are reimporting it. It still has to be declared.

I am a NEXUS cardholder and NEXUS can be revoked for the slightest infraction. It is the responsibility of the NEXUS member to know the rules and not to violate them. I zealously guard my NEXUS membership because the NEXUS privileges are so damn handy for me. So I know the rules, especially those around liquor because I usually carry some, Canadian liquor prices being exorbitant, and usually have some left over coming back.
 
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I am a NEXUS cardholder and NEXUS can be revoked for the slightest infraction. It is the responsibility of the NEXUS member to know the rules and not to violate them.
Same is true for Global Entry, which in principle can be used to enter the US by ground. Good as a backup in case the Passport or Passport Card is misplaced. However, you cannot use it to enter Canada.
 
Same is true for Global Entry, which in principle can be used to enter the US by ground. Good as a backup in case the Passport or Passport Card is misplaced. However, you cannot use it to enter Canada.
Yep, both are DHS Trusted Traveler programs, heavy emphasis on "trusted". Violate the trust and you are toast.

Both GE and NEXUS can be used to enter the US by land, and GE allows you to use US bound NEXUS lanes (as long as you have the physical GE card in your possession at the time).

One nice thing about NEXUS is it gets you both Global Entry privileges and TSA Pre Check in addition to expedited entry to Canada and the NEXUS lane both directions. It's the best of the bunch, though the most difficult to get due to the scarcity of interview locations (airports requiring separate interviews in both US and Canada and some US/Canada land crossings).

I use my NEXUS card as my primary ID crossing between Canada and the US. Also for TSA, as my Washington Driver's License is not Real ID compliant, should that ever actually take effect. I carry my passport in Canada, though, mostly as backup in case I lose my wallet.
 
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You bought liquor in Ontario? Are you out of your mind or on an unlimited budget?😉
I got a bottle of ice wine. Plus a couple of cans of a Quebec cider I tasted in Montreal. Plus a 375 ml bottle of Alberta Premium. Plus, I didn't think the LCBO prices were that horrible. Crown Royal whisky, 750 ml, C$33.95 at LCBO, US$29.99 at Total WIne in Maryland. (That's about C$37)
 
I got a bottle of ice wine. Plus a couple of cans of a Quebec cider I tasted in Montreal. Plus a 375 ml bottle of Alberta Premium. Plus, I didn't think the LCBO prices were that horrible. Crown Royal whisky, 750 ml, C$33.95 at LCBO, US$29.99 at Total WIne in Maryland. (That's about C$37)
Last liquor I bought in Ontario was 750 ml of Smirnoff for my return leg on a round trip from Vancouver and the price seemed terribly high, though I no longer recall the specifics (it was not long after the border reopened post-COVID). Washington has the highest liquor taxes in the country, so if it seemed high to me it definitely was.

I know that even with the highest prices in the country, booze is still significantly cheaper here than it is in BC.
 
When I went from Buffalo Exchange St to Toronto on the Maple Leaf this year, I actually considered taking a city bus to the falls, walking across the bridge, spending time at the Falls and then taking Go Transit to Toronto Union Station, much cheaper - enough to buy a nice lunch at the falls. but it might have raised eyebrows at the border.
 
It appears that @MARC Rider declared the alcohol and the inspecting CBP officer waived duty on the dutiable 1/2 liter, so his importation of 1.5 liters of alcohol duty free was completely legal.
I was envisioning the opposite direction for some reason, in which case 1.5L is applicable to wine. Otherwise it’s 8.5L for ale or 40oz for everything else. I rarely take alcohol back to the US since domestic prices are usually reasonable for common brands and the really expensive stuff is not worth risking confiscation on connection. Sometimes tamper resistant bags are honored but not always.

I am a NEXUS cardholder and NEXUS can be revoked for the slightest infraction. It is the responsibility of the NEXUS member to know the rules and not to violate them. I zealously guard my NEXUS membership because the NEXUS privileges are so damn handy for me.
From what I've seen the usefulness of GE is highly dependent on on the gateway. Some airports it saves you an hour or more. Other airports it saves you five minutes. In a few cases it took longer. Based on what people report online there are endless ways to lose GE. I ended up renewing TSA Pre separate from GE since that's 90% of the benefit where I live and travel. NEXUS advertises a good value but I have no faith in the CBSA and the process for acquiring NEXUS is completely impractical where I live.
 
Inability to assess or collect does not mean importation is free. It means you're expected to leave untaxed dutiable goods behind or they become contraband. Bringing 1.5L is within the limit of duty exception (last I checked) so no risk or harm either way.

Inability to assess or collect does not mean importation is free. It means you're expected to leave untaxed dutiable goods behind or they become contraband. Bringing 1.5L is within the limit of duty exception (last I checked) so no risk or harm either way.
Not necessarily. I bring in over the amount when we cruise sometimes. They have the ability to collect and most of the time they just say, thanks for declaring and have a good day.
 
Not necessarily. I bring in over the amount when we cruise sometimes. They have the ability to collect and most of the time they just say, thanks for declaring and have a good day.
Yeah, if they let it go through after declaring you’re golden, but just because they have no means of assessing/collecting does not mean future crossings will function the same way. As a certain longtime member loves to say….YMMV. 😎👍
 
From what I've seen the usefulness of GE is highly dependent on on the gateway. Some airports it saves you an hour or more. Other airports it saves you five minutes. In a few cases it took longer. Based on what people report online there are endless ways to lose GE. I ended up renewing TSA Pre separate from GE since that's 90% of the benefit where I live and travel. NEXUS advertises a good value but I have no faith in the CBSA and the process for acquiring NEXUS is completely impractical where I live.
I've only used its GE privileges a few times but use the NEXUS privileges frequently. I originally got it because of the third degree I always got from CBSA when I'd go up to Vancouver for joy ride day trips. I thought being vetted by CBSA for NEXUS would ease things and it did, though the day trips still raised eyebrows, the questioning was much less intense. Also, since reopening after COVID, the CBSA staff at Pacific Central seem mellower than the former Stasi members they had before.

However, it turned out the really big benefit and the one I like the most is NEXUS lane access. That perk saves time, sometimes a lot of time. Sometimes I've spent more time at California's ag inspection stations than in NEXUS lanes entering Canada. I've gone through from entering the NEXUS lane on the US side to driving off in Canada in as little as three minutes flat. The longest I ever spent at the border using NEXUS was 20 minutes and that was at the Peace Arch (BC99/I5) crossing on the Sunday after American Thanksgiving returning from Whistler when the regular lanes were posted with a 90 minute wait.

As you can see, though, I am squarely in the NEXUS target demographic of frequent US-Canada border crossers. IIRC, Canadians are the largest holders of NEXUS cards, outnumbering American holders about 2 to 1, IIRC.

Yeah, if they let it go through after declaring you’re golden, but just because they have no means of assessing/collecting does not mean future crossings will function the same way. As a certain longtime member loves to say….YMMV. 😎👍
The worst that can happen if you declare honestly is getting charged the liquor duty on the amount exceeding the exemption, which is a whopping 3%, IIRC. But most of the time @disney1990's experience holds, they often waive duty when it's small (and its declared up front). You might catch an agent on a bad day or you cop an attitude (always a bad idea with CBP), and get hit with the 3% duty, though.
 
My experience in border crossing the last couple of year is on I-87 on Adirondack Trailways.

CBSA wants everyone off the bus with ALL the belongings.
USC wants everyone off the bus with NONE of their belongings.

I asked the driver why the double standard. First off is they xray the southbound bus for explosives, not the northbound. The other is CBSA wants an opportunity collect duty fees. I suppose the US doesn't much care.
 
My experience in border crossing the last couple of year is on I-87 on Adirondack Trailways.

CBSA wants everyone off the bus with ALL the belongings.
USC wants everyone off the bus with NONE of their belongings.

I asked the driver why the double standard. First off is they xray the southbound bus for explosives, not the northbound. The other is CBSA wants an opportunity collect duty fees. I suppose the US doesn't much care.
Funny, they are not consistent at all. I've crossed by bus both ways at Pacific Highway (WA/BC) and Niagara Falls (NY/ON). At both crossings both US CBP and CBSA want everything off the bus and passengers have to lug all their stuff off.

Also, weirdly, at Niagara Falls Canada x-rayed your luggage at the bus/pedestrian crossing but CBP didn't. At Pacific Highway, just the opposite. Canada did not x-ray but CBP did. 🤷‍♂️
 
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