Metro North Fleet

[jis]

For use by Metro North, neither, since neither is capable of operating off of third rail.

 

[Andrew]

It is my understanding that these locomotives could be equipped for third rail.

 

[jis]

Could you provide a credible citation from either the manufacturers or any potential customers from which you might have gotten such an impression? You question though did not say anything about any modifications. It was about the current locomotives identified by their specific type names.

 

[Andrew]

Could you provide a credible citation from either the manufacturers or any potential customers from which you might have gotten such an impression? You question though did not say anything about any modifications. It was about the current locomotives identified by their specific type names.

See the last two pages of http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/Revised_DM_DC_3rd_Rail_Req_Doc_for_E-Board__Approved_-_1-6-15.pdf

 

[jis]

But since your question was specifically about current existing locomotives the answer is still "no". The rest is speculation and your guess is as good as mine until an actual order is placed by someone.

 

[Andrew]

But since your question was specifically about current existing locomotives the answer is still "no". The rest is speculation and your guess is as good as mine until an actual order is placed by someone.

But since your question was specifically about current existing locomotives the answer is still "no". The rest is speculation and your guess is as good as mine until an actual order is placed by someon

And an actual order will get placed by someone at some point.

I bet that the engineers who are employed at Siemens and Bombardier are intelligent enough to figure out how to make a third rail capable locomotive version of the Charger and ALP45-DP.

 

[Eric S]

But until bids are solicited this is just idle speculation. Whenever that happens, then we'll see which manufacturers offer which models.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

actually LIRR, MN and Amtrak are working with Siemens to see if dual mode charger is feasible.

with Charger being AC propulsion and lower than 14 feet it does make for attractive candidate.

making a AC traction locomotive into third rail dual mode is not that much of technical challenge.

 

[jis]

It is even simpler if the DC link voltage is the same as the third rail voltage. But I suspect actually the DC link voltage is probably something like double or three times the third rail voltage. But steppping up DC through an alternator - transformer - rectifier chain or some other interesting power circuitry is indeed not that big a deal. As long as they are not also required to operate off of OHE it should not even require any more space, since the main transformer can be dispensed with to make room for the DC circuitry, and even if a transformer is used for upping the voltage from third rail a much lighter one can be used with a much higher frequency alternator to drive it.

So in principle almost any OHE locomotive can be converted to a DC third rail locomotive as long as you don't ask it to also be capable of working with OHE AC. For the latter you will generally need extra real estate for all the additional equipment for supporting both electrical modes. BTW the dual model diesel-OHE locomotives that exist are at the bleeding edge of permitted axle loading on the NEC.

 

[Andrew]

actually LIRR, MN and Amtrak are working with Siemens to see if dua

l mode charger is feasible.

with Charger being AC propulsion and lower than 14 feet it does make for attractive candidate.

making a AC traction locomotive into third rail dual mode is not that much of technical challenge.

I thought this was the case.

The Charger Locomotive appears to be quite popular--and I read that this locomotive is 12 and a half feet tall. If MNR and LIRR buy these locomotives, then will there be a roof piece to make sure they are the same height as the Multi-Level Coaches these train sets use?

It is even simpler if the DC link voltage is the same as the third rail voltage. But I suspect actually the DC link voltage is probably something like double or three times the third rail voltage. But steppping up DC through an alternator - transformer - rectifier chain or some other interesting power circuitry is indeed not that big a deal. As long as they are not also required to operate off of OHE it should not even require any more space, since the main transformer can be dispensed with to make room for the DC circuitry, and even if a transformer is used for upping the voltage from third rail a much lighter one can be used with a much higher frequency alternator to drive it.

So in principle almost any OHE locomotive can be converted to a DC third rail locomotive as long as you don't ask it to also be capable of working with OHE AC. For the latter you will generally need extra real estate for all the additional equipment for supporting both electrical modes. BTW the dual model diesel-OHE locomotives that exist are at the bleeding edge of permitted axle loading on the NEC.

Why is AC Traction an advantage?

 

[jis]

Are you talking about AC traction as in the current that the engine collects? Or are you talking about the type of motor that it has?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

AC traction has far less maintenance of traction motors, no carbon brushes other than two small exiter brushes on slip rings, they last for years.

better control of slip and spin, better dynamic or dynamic blended brake , stepless control of speed making the engine notches basically redundant.

HEP of Inverter with Engine speed not being determinator of HEP or propulsion frequency.

etc etc .

 

[Andrew]

Wouldn't a Charger Dual Mode Locomotive weigh over 300,000 pounds?!

Do you know if MNR has had discussions with Bombardier, Kawasaki or Alstom about ordering double decker coaches that could fit through the Park Avenue Tunnels?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

discussions yes but how far they are is not known.

and no charger weighs around 264 000 Lbs here are sigle mode specifications ( a dual mode would not weigh a lot more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charger_(locomotive)

ps here is Amtrak specifications (draft) http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/PRIIA_DM_Loco_Spec_305-010_DRAFT.pdf

 

[Andrew]

discussions yes but how far they are is not known.

and no charger weighs around 264 000 Lbs here are sigle mode specifications ( a dual mode would not weigh a lot more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charger_(locomotive)

ps here is Amtrak specifications (draft) http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Documents/PRIIA_DM_Loco_Spec_305-010_DRAFT.pdf

Thanks. Where did you get that link? Do you know of any other links that provides similar information?

When do you think an order for new locomotives and double-decker coaches will occur?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

probably not for few years , nothing in budget.

 

[Andrew]

Do you think that Metro North will eventually go to electric locomotives pulling or pushing trains instead of EMU's on the New Haven and Upper Harlem line?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

no

 

[Andrew]

Do you think that electrification will get extended north to Poughkeepsie?

If so, then would the trains to/from Poughkeepsie use EMU's or locomotive hauled trains?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

no, and it has never been planning , cost would simply be to big for amount of trains run.

 

[Andrew]

What modifications would have to occur for double decker trains to be able to operate into and out of Grand Central Terminal?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

other than few signals moved, none if they buy right car.

 

[Andrew]

other than few signals moved, none if they buy right car.

I didn't know if the two outer tubes that run underneath Park Avenue would have to be widened or have their roofs raised, etc.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

neither as I have explained twice already .

 

[Andrew]

Besides Kawasaki Rail Car, who also bid on the M-9 railcar contract?