Metrolink Wreck

[Guest_Spokker_*]

Amtrak has finally announced what their plans are.

Pacific Surfliner Service & Coast Starlight Railroad closure due to collision
September 12, 2008

7:00 p.m. PDT

An incident involving a Metrolink commuter train and a freight train near Chatsworth, California, has resulted in a temporary closure of the railroad route used by Amtrak Pacific Surfliner trains and the Amtrak Coast Starlight, north of Los Angeles.

Amtrak extends condolences to those involved in the commuter train incident and has offered any available assistance.

Pacific Surfliner Service and related Thruway Motorcoaches

There will no service by Amtrak Pacific Surfliners and their connecting Thruway Motorcoach buses on September 13, between San Luis Obispo and Goleta, California, and Los Angeles, pending restoration of the route. No alternate transportation is available.

Amtrak Pacific Surfliners and their connecting Thruway Motorcoaches will operate normally between Los Angeles and points south to San Diego.

Coast Starlight, Trains 11 & 14

The Coast Starlight will originate and terminate in Santa Barbara on September 13, with alternate transportation provided between Santa Barbara and Los Angeles.

Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant. Passengers are encouraged to call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com for schedule information and train status updates.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I wonder what this means for the upcoming investigation.

Someone must have run a red.

i think the same thing. sense its a head on someone must of ran a signal.

 

[rtabern]

Hey guys... I got caught up in the mess tonight!

I caught #11 this morning in Emeryville and was supposed to be heading down to Van Nuys to visit my best friend from high school.

We pulled into SLO (already 2 hours late) and they told us we would be sitting there until Amtrak could figure out what to do with the train.

We sat probably 40 minutes or so and they announced they were going thru to Santa Barbara and were terminating the train there.

I guess they did provided buses, but I didnt want to mess with it and just had my friend drive up and meet me in the depot in Santa Barbara.

NOT FUN, but I feel for the people who were hurt and killed and my prayers are with them.

I just hope Ike clears so I can make #422 on 9/17 out of LA-LA-LAND.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

'Total destruction': At least 17 dead in Metrolink crash

The death toll stands at 17 as this is posted, and is expected to rise further.

More Los Angeles Times:

A sharp left turn, then muffled screams

Probe to examine many possibilities

Deadly Metrolink crash forces Amtrak cancellations today

Families of passengers gather at Chatsworth high to hope

Survivors recount harrowing moment when trains collided

Passengers at Union Station wonder how, when they will get home

Photos

Map

Resources

Ventura County Star:

Commuter disaster

Train transportation stopped; passengers left to consider 'what if"

Man recounts crash

Orange County Register:

SoCal train wreck toll rises to 17, with 135 hurt

 

[access bob]

It was reported by an early responder to the scene that the signal tower was red on the Metrolink side. That, and its the Metrolink leaving double track to single track.. ... got any guesses?

Well seeing as how the Metrolink train had passed the signal, it would be red. The question is, "was it red before the Metrolink train passed it?" And a first responder wouldn't know, since they responded to the accident, not before it.

considering the Metrolink train would be a "timetabled" train and the freight would be an extra, the freight "Should" have been waiting for the Metrolink train. that of course does not mean either train could pass a restrictive signal.

doesn't help the victims our hearts go out to them.

has anyone heard anything about the conditions of the engine crews of either train???

Bob

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Class of trains went out the window years ago, the Schedule is basicly for passenger use only.

Stopping a freight train for that 4 mile section when it got there earelier than the metro Link would have been stupid, getting it going and passing the 4 mile single track section would have taken over 13 minutes, Keeping the freight moving will take it thru in 6 minutes.

holding the passenger train for less than 6 minutes would have done no harm to passengers or schedule.

note how that passenger train hit after the freight train already passed 3.8 miles of single track

 

[MrFSS]

For ease of everyone to not have to look in two places, please let's keep all posts releated to the crash in the crash topic created in the Amtrak forum. And yes, I realize that technically it's not an Amtrak issue, but for now it's important enough to warrant a little special treatment.

Your wish is my request, Alan.

With Pacific Surfliners and Coast Starlight crippled indefinitely, I think it's very much an Amtrak issue.

No clue, yet, on how long it might be before that line is open, again?

 

[gswager]

It was reported by an early responder to the scene that the signal tower was red on the Metrolink side. That, and its the Metrolink leaving double track to single track.. ... got any guesses?

Well seeing as how the Metrolink train had passed the signal, it would be red. The question is, "was it red before the Metrolink train passed it?" And a first responder wouldn't know, since they responded to the accident, not before it.

I agree with Alan about the signal. Once the head locomotive (or a head cab car) has passed the sensor on track which is located next to the signal, it automatically turned to red.

 

[JackGraham]

I'm actually on train 11 right now. We're on a siding outside if Hayward at 1030a. We are still about 90 minutes late I think. Was about an hour forty late getting into Redding where I got on at 4am. Rumor is we'll be bussed from SBA to LAX. I have no idea how I'll get to OSD. HOpe they'll bus me because they last Surfliner is 10:10. A tight connection in good times, no way we'll make it tonight.

 

[-Jamie-]

Ok, how is it possible that we're hearing trains this morning here in Moorpark? We've heard 3 so far (that we've noticed).

EDIT: Now it seems to be a constant flow. One every 5 minutes or less. The track couldn't be open already, could it? Ok, now I'm really confused. We have the scanner on and someone was just asking dispatch what track Metrolink was supposed to come in on. What the frig? There's no Metrolink service on Saturday even when the lines are running normal!

 

[AlanB]

Ok, how is it possible that we're hearing trains this morning here in Moorpark? We've heard 3 so far (that we've noticed).

Perhaps they're bringing in work trains to clear the wreckage once the resuce efforts are done, as well as supplies to rebuild the tracks in this vital section of track. Maybe there are even a few spurs that service freight customers in Moorpark and surrounding areas that they can still reach, since it's before the derailment site.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Once the head locomotive (or a head cab car) has passed the sensor on track which is located next to the signal, it automatically turned to red.

Locomotive in this case, as the train was operating in pull mode, as do all trains departing Union Station.

 

[-Jamie-]

We're going to go drive down High Street in a minute and see if we can find anything out. I'll update from my phone if I need to.

 

[had8ley]

It was reported by an early responder to the scene that the signal tower was red on the Metrolink side. That, and its the Metrolink leaving double track to single track.. ... got any guesses?

Well seeing as how the Metrolink train had passed the signal, it would be red. The question is, "was it red before the Metrolink train passed it?" And a first responder wouldn't know, since they responded to the accident, not before it.

considering the Metrolink train would be a "timetabled" train and the freight would be an extra, the freight "Should" have been waiting for the Metrolink train. that of course does not mean either train could pass a restrictive signal.

doesn't help the victims our hearts go out to them.

has anyone heard anything about the conditions of the engine crews of either train???

Bob

A timetabled train has no rights in CTC territory~everyone proceeds on signal indication alone. From the BLE site it sounds like Train #111 went about a mile after passing the stop indication. The BLE site also indicated that the two crew members and the Metrolink engineer (running engine first) perished. May they rest in peace.

 

[AlanB]

The BLE site also indicated that the two crew members and the Metrolink engineer (running engine first) perished. May they rest in peace.

Two crew members? Are you referring to the conductors? Or are your referring to the engineer/conductor on the UP train? And by the way, there are reports that indicate that the UP train had 4 people on it and at least so far no public statements about their whereabouts.

 

[had8ley]

The BLE site also indicated that the two crew members and the Metrolink engineer (running engine first) perished. May they rest in peace.

Two crew members? Are you referring to the conductors? Or are your referring to the engineer/conductor on the UP train? And by the way, there are reports that indicate that the UP train had 4 people on it and at least so far no public statements about their whereabouts.

The report said both people (engineer, conductor) on the UP train perished. There was no mention of additional people on the freight train.

 

[-Jamie-]

There are no Metrolink trains parked in the storage lot (usually there are 4) but there are a lot of freight cars parked in there. Also, the parking lot at the station is still mostly full. Just a sad reminder of all the people who didn't make it home last night.

 

[Alice]

From the LA Times:

http://link.latimes.com/r/8PYSZD/XGZGY/4MC...1Z8L/2PA4J/B7/t

"Metrolink officials say train engineer ignored signal telling him to stop. Death

toll stands at 18, but officials expect count to rise. There are more than 135 injured

passengers."

 

[AlanB]

"Metrolink officials say train engineer ignored signal telling him to stop. Deathtoll stands at 18, but officials expect count to rise. There are more than 135 injured

passengers."

Sad to have it confirmed, but not exactly unexpected either.

Yet one more argument for PTC!

 

[-Jamie-]

Ok, how is it possible that we're hearing trains this morning here in Moorpark? We've heard 3 so far (that we've noticed).

Perhaps they're bringing in work trains to clear the wreckage once the resuce efforts are done, as well as supplies to rebuild the tracks in this vital section of track. Maybe there are even a few spurs that service freight customers in Moorpark and surrounding areas that they can still reach, since it's before the derailment site.

I think you were right. It was probably a mix of supply trains going in and moving out the undamaged freight cars to the yard here in MPK. Just was looking at the live feed on KNBC and it looks like they have that whole corner of track ripped out with new prebuilt sections ready to be installed. I could see there was at least 1 UP engine still there as well as the last 2 passenger cars. There was 1 UP engine parked in the yard here with all the freight cars. Not sure if it was involved or just used to move the cars.

 

[wayman]

The BLE site also indicated that the two crew members and the Metrolink engineer (running engine first) perished. May they rest in peace.

Two crew members? Are you referring to the conductors? Or are your referring to the engineer/conductor on the UP train? And by the way, there are reports that indicate that the UP train had 4 people on it and at least so far no public statements about their whereabouts.

The report said both people (engineer, conductor) on the UP train perished. There was no mention of additional people on the freight train.

"Officials said there were 222 people on the Metrolink train and three Union Pacific employees aboard the freight train." (AP update)

 

[-Jamie-]

Death toll now up to 23 and they have yet to get to the lower level of the car. Quite possible that the number will double. Metrolink service to resume on Monday between LAUS and Chattsworth with a bustitution from Chattsworth to Moorpark.

 

[RTOlson]

The revelation that the Metrolink engineer apparently ignored the signal is tragic. Still, I hope the investigation is through and considers all other factors (e.g., equipment malfunction) that may have contributed to the accident. I have no immediate reason to disbelief what Metrolink is telling us, but the engineer is apparently dead and thus unable to defend allegations against him.

I just want to make sure there are answers for what happened Friday and that agencies take whatever reasonable steps needed to prevent this disaster from happening again.

This incident also has me wondering about the FRA standards for passenger cars. I know their reputation as being tough compared to other nations, but did the standards work as they were supposed to? Hearing about the locomotive being pushed into the first passenger car during a collision at the equivalent of 80 mph makes me curious. Perhaps there are mitigating factors or the simple fact that all the energy from these two monster vehicles had to go somewhere.

 

[Neil_M]

This incident also has me wondering about the FRA standards for passenger cars. I know their reputation as being tough compared to other nations, but did the standards work as they were supposed to? Hearing about the locomotive being pushed into the first passenger car during a collision at the equivalent of 80 mph makes me curious. Perhaps there are mitigating factors or the simple fact that all the energy from these two monster vehicles had to go somewhere.

You can have all the collision standards you want. The best way to make it work is not collide 2 trains head on.

 

[Guest]

A couple of brief quotes from CNN...

The NTSB will make a final determination of the crash's cause. Higgins, the agency's spokeswoman, said data recorders have been recovered from both trains, along with a video recorder from the freight train.
Higgins said that out of the trains' five crew members, four survived. Authorities will interview the surviving crew members, Higgins said.

Tyrrell said a review of "a number of programs," including the signal system, showed the commuter train's engineer failed to heed a stop signal, Tyrrell said.

Tyrrell said the engineer, whom she didn't identify, was a subcontractor employed by another company.