MNRR Dual Mode Chargers discussion

[jis]

MNRR had ordered 27 units of type SC42DM back in 2020. They have lots of options for a total of upto 171 SC42DMs. They have just exercised 6 options and ordered 6 more. In addition to MNRR these options can be used by LIRR and New York State DOT as described in the article...

https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/locomotives/more-siemens-sc-42dms-for-metro-north/

 

[Dutchrailnut]

The 6 units are ConnDOT , not Metro North. they are part of the Metro North options .
The options are LIRR - NYS empire service , and more possible single mode chargers of less horsepower, for MN branch lines and ConnDot Branches and Hartford line.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

latest on Metro North Dual mode chargers. https://ngec.org/wp-content/uploads...OwQFxI4lbHA8wBRoeSeMuIEvfwm4vCJ4H1UhhEhr5yJqM

 

[Dutchrailnut]

#301 just about ready for testing.
https://ngec.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/305-activities-report-monthly-2-29-24.pdf
photoshop picture only for reference :

 

[west point]

Probably will not be a problem but with both Amtrak ALCs and MNRR Chargers in the 300 number blocks unlikely confusion if either uses one of the other's Chargers?

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

#301 just about ready for testing.
https://ngec.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/305-activities-report-monthly-2-29-24.pdf
photoshop picture only for reference :View attachment 36024

I thought this NGEC map was cool:

Those stations are Croton, Southeast and Pelham, if you can't read them. Don't worry, no 123 at Pelham.

The map is from one of the "Meetings" that keep getting mentioned in the "Monthly Activities Report" linked by Dutch. This one is called Metro-North Dual Mode Locomotive, and there's another one about ConnDOT cars, as well as many Amtrak topics.
Monthlies: https://ngec.org/resources/
Meetings: https://ngec.org/meetings/

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Reason third rail operations is expanded is that new Dual modes have a energy storage module that will keep HEP alive in gaps. so HVAC's do not get damaged. the P32acdm's did not have an option for that.
The module does not power locomotive in gaps.

 

[BlackDiamond]

#301 just about ready for testing.
https://ngec.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/305-activities-report-monthly-2-29-24.pdf
photoshop picture only for reference :View attachment 36024

For operation in the Park Ave tunnel, don't the locos have to have some means of egress out the front for emergencies due to the tight clearances? I don't see that on this picture.

 

[jis]

For operation in the Park Ave tunnel, don't the locos have to have some means of egress out the front for emergencies due to the tight clearances? I don't see that on this picture.

There were two possibilities discussed early on I don't know which was selected. One was a roof exit and the other was a removable windshield exit. None of those would be obviously visible in that shot.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

roof exit is a FRA mandate but on dual modes there will be a modification to fireman's side window.
egress is over console and a rope type ladder down to coupler level .

note: that picture in my post is not actual Metro North unit but a photoshop. the trucks lack third rail gear and fireman's window is not MN version.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Siemens shipped 301-302 today to TTC in Pueblo.

 

[SubwayNut]

Will the CDOT ones be fitted also with pantographs like Amtrak's NEC Dual Modes so they can operate in electric mode via the wires beyond the third rail change over between Mount Vernon and Pelham?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

No that would require a tri mode locomotive and it would definitively be overweight for park avenue.

 

[Touchdowntom9]

Are these trains expected to be able to use the 3rd rail as power for traction or will they be subject to the same limits as the older versions (ie ~40mph top speed, limited use in general, using diesel power anywhere outside of tunnels)

 

[jis]

Are these trains expected to be able to use the 3rd rail as power for traction or will they be subject to the same limits as the older versions (ie ~40mph top speed, limited use in general, using diesel power anywhere outside of tunnels)

They are rated for 110mph in diesel mode and 80mph in electric mode. See:

https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/locomotives/more-siemens-sc-42dms-for-metro-north/

 

[Touchdowntom9]

They are rated for 110mph in diesel mode and 80mph in electric mode. See:

https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/locomotives/more-siemens-sc-42dms-for-metro-north/

Thank you, so I would take it that both the MNRR and LIRR would be using the 3rd rail DC power as primary traction power anywhere that it might be available? I ask because I had thought the previous gen locos weren’t the issue and instead the issue was the points of contact not being able to pull enough power from the rail to power the whole loco.

 

[jis]

Thank you, so I would take it that both the MNRR and LIRR would be using the 3rd rail DC power as primary traction power anywhere that it might be available? I ask because I had thought the previous gen locos weren’t the issue and instead the issue was the points of contact not being able to pull enough power from the rail to power the whole loco.

What they will do in actual operation I have no clue. Maybe @Dutchrailnut can throw some light on that matter since he is much closer to the actual operations at MNRR.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

The current problem with both DM and Genesis is constant dropping the HEP power in interlockings and other gaps like section switches etc. in long run that causes damage to HVAC systems on the cars. the MNCR chargers have a energy storage module that will keep HEP active for several seconds so cars do not have to fully cycle. the same energy storage module is also suppose to be Emergency power to move train at slow speed if it gaps out.

the Genesis in E mode is restricted at 60 mph and therefor permission must be obtained from operations center incase diesel has issues.

 

[west point]

Had not thought before about the damage to HVAC with constant gaping. Slugging the compressors can eventually break a shaft. Otherwise, a timer preventing a immediate restart would severely limit HVAC operation if there were many gaps.

Maybe this is one reason why Amtrak is thinking of just using overhead CAT and not 3rd rail.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

it also means Amtrak could not divert to GCT in emergencies. the Cab cars on Siemens also make it near impossible to evacuate passengers from train due to lack of nose door.

 

[cirdan]

Had not thought before about the damage to HVAC with constant gaping. Slugging the compressors can eventually break a shaft. Otherwise, a timer preventing a immediate restart would severely limit HVAC operation if there were many gaps.

Maybe this is one reason why Amtrak is thinking of just using overhead CAT and not 3rd rail.

There are gaps on CAT too. Section breakers and such. Also there may be situations where the panto bounces or the contact surface of the wire may be contaminated. On CAT this will not as many or as big a problem as it is on 3rd rail, but it is still something that any electric loco is designed to deal with.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

The current problem with both DM and Genesis is constant dropping the HEP power in interlockings and other gaps like section switches etc. in long run that causes damage to HVAC systems on the cars. the MNCR chargers have a energy storage module that will keep HEP active for several seconds so cars do not have to fully cycle. the same energy storage module is also suppose to be Emergency power to move train at slow speed if it gaps out.

the Genesis in E mode is restricted at 60 mph and therefor permission must be obtained from operations center incase diesel has issues.

Had not thought before about the damage to HVAC with constant gaping. Slugging the compressors can eventually break a shaft. Otherwise, a timer preventing a immediate restart would severely limit HVAC operation if there were many gaps.

Maybe this is one reason why Amtrak is thinking of just using overhead CAT and not 3rd rail.

Is that part of what the big capacitor does in a home AC or heat pump? It's common repair, $120 part. Is the watt storage for the circuit gaps on a train a big capacitor?

 

[jis]

Is that part of what the big capacitor does in a home AC or heat pump? It's common repair, $120 part. Is the watt storage for the circuit gaps on a train a big capacitor?

The MNRR Chargers probably have a small battery pack since it is also supposed to be used for short distance low speed operation too.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

The Capacitor in home AC unit is starting capacitor, it has no Equal in a 3 phase operation. But have you ever tried to turn home AC off while its cooling and then turn it back on ?? it won't till gas pressure in system equalizes, on larger systems like on trains a lot of times a bypass solenoid is used but even with those it takes time for pressures to equalize.