NEC overnight and late evening service

[jis]

NYC prohibits diesel operation in tunnels, so there would need to be a swap in Sunnyside to an ACS-64 to enter/leave NYP. New York State would probably not allow the P32AC-DMs to be used on a Boston run.

NYC does no such thing. It is one of the more persistent urban legends believed fervently by some railfans. What NYC prohibits is the operation of Steam Locomotives in the Park Avenue Tunnels

I have arrived in Penn Station on the LSL pulled by a P42, and not a P32ACDM more than once.

Nothing needs to be swapped in any case as 65/66/67 in the past has operated pulled by a diesel with an AEM-7 dead in tow through sections where power was turned off and then detached at Sunnyside for the train to continue under electric power.

I believe MNRR has requested the full possession of the RoW to move the work forward faster hence no trains on it. It is more than just power outage.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

NYC prohibits diesel operation in tunnels, so there would need to be a swap in Sunnyside to an ACS-64 to enter/leave NYP. New York State would probably not allow the P32AC-DMs to be used on a Boston run.

False!

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I believe MNRR has requested the full possession of the RoW to move the work forward faster hence no trains on it. It is more than just power outage.

Everyone is getting greedy about there work space. Yea it more safe to block all traffic, but the continuing customer be dammed thing, needs to be stopped. There got to be a line somewhere.

Fire Department are do full highway closure at accident scene.

Construction work had a car get flipped into there protected area, so I guess they will now demand and get full highway closure too.

Were talking a few trains ever night traveling at a reduced speed. In Europe they have these portable fences that they can install to prevent people from walking in front of a train. No reason we can tack a fence between the active track and the work zone. Use a diesel to pull/push a train through the zone, so no worries about overhead lines.

A little effort is required.

 

[Roomette11]

Could they operate up the West Side Line (Empire Connection) and turn right at Spuyten Duyvil to run east on the Hudson Line? Not sure if there is a wye there…

Anyway, run on the Hudson Line to the junction with the Harlem line. Use the wye track there to head up the Harlem Line to Woodlawn. Use the New Haven line from there to get to New Rochelle the hard way.

 

[jis]

Could they operate up the West Side Line (Empire Connection) and turn right at Spuyten Duyvil to run east on the Hudson Line? Not sure if there is a wye there…

There is no Wye at Spuyten Duyvil anymore. The third leg was taken out when the Empire Connection was built since no one ever envisaged running a train to Boston that way even as a contingency. I bet Metro North would not have any of it if they were asked, as they are unlikely to have to deal with a Wye switch in the middle of the rebuilt and expanded Spuyten Duyvil station. Additionally for Amtrak it would require qualifying crews over a new territory and keep them qualified. Tough thing to do when you are already desperately short of crews.

 

[Amtrak25]

I think a practical work-around could be this:

• Amtrak retains stub trains 6 or 7 nights of the week between New Haven and Boston, coordinate with MN below,
• Ride MN New Haven line train departing GCT at 147am,
• Ride MN New Haven Line train departing New Haven at 1124pm,
• Amtrak cuts a deal with MN to honor Amtrak tickets to and from GCT.

Does not help people transiting New York City.

 

[west point]

Someone please correct me. I understood that Hell Gate was going to be closed off and on for next 5 years?? In that case the Spuyten Duyvil restoration of the wye might be advisable ? Looked at open railway map and station platform did not look that bad except for an Amtrak train swinging next to west end of platform. A MNRR pilot could get on at New Rochelle going to NYP and take northbound back to NRO. You do have problem of Amtrak qualified on west side line. from SPD to NYP.

An interesting paper exercise?

 

[railiner]

I believe MNRR has requested the full possession of the RoW to move the work forward faster hence no trains on it. It is more than just power outage.

Am I missing something here? Is MN performing work on Amtrak territory?
Sorry about the confusion…

 

[jis]

Am I missing something here? Is MN performing work on Amtrak territory?
Sorry about the confusion…

MNR building infrastructure for Penn Station Access and four suburban stations in the Bronx.

Someone please correct me. I understood that Hell Gate was going to be closed off and on for next 5 years?? In that case the Spuyten Duyvil restoration of the wye might be advisable ? Looked at open railway map and station platform did not look that bad except for an Amtrak train swinging next to west end of platform. A MNRR pilot could get on at New Rochelle going to NYP and take northbound back to NRO. You do have problem of Amtrak qualified on west side line. from SPD to NYP.

An interesting paper exercise?

It will be closed only overnight affecting one pair of trains. So yes interesting paper exercise.

 

[railiner]

MNR building infrastructure for Penn Station Access and four suburban stations in the Bronx.


It will be closed only overnight affecting one pair of trains. So yes interesting paper exercise.

Surprised Amtrak is allowing that, and not doing or sub-contracting the work themselves, to MN’s specs.
I am sure Amtrak is closely observing it, nevertheless…

 

[jis]

Surprised Amtrak is allowing that, and not doing or sub-contracting the work themselves, to MN’s specs.
I am sure Amtrak is closely observing it, nevertheless…

The interdependence of Amtrak and Metro North are deep. The funding for this project is Metro North's, not Amtrak's. So Metro North as the primary owner of the project gets to decide who will do the work, in consultation with Amtrak of course. Amtrak could refuse to cooperate at its own peril. Remember Amtrak's depends on Chuck Schumer's (D-NY) half of the Congress more than the other half now, to get its funding protected..

Incidentally this is not the first time that construction in Amtrak's territory is being managed and done by someone else. Another example is the Portal North Bridge which is an NJ Transit project. Also most of the Harold realignment in connection with ESA was LIRR's and as we have been reminded by someone in the know a few days back at AU, Harold is not primarily owned by Amtrak anyway too.

 

[daybeers]

It will be closed only overnight affecting one pair of trains.

In addition to substantial time changes to other Amtrak times and Shore Line East commuter trains. Only way to get to Boston via rail before 11:15am is on an often very expensive Acela run, since NER #150 is cancelled too. BS in my opinion.

 

[railiner]

Having MN as a “tenant” on the largest single piece of infrastructure (the Hell Gate Bridge) on the entire Amtrak system, should be a big relief in paying for its costly maintenance, I would image.

Probably why they “sold” the Newark station to NJT, in the past…

 

[Acela150]

In addition to substantial time changes to other Amtrak times and Shore Line East commuter trains. Only way to get to Boston via rail before 11:15am is on an often very expensive Acela run, since NER #150 is cancelled too. BS in my opinion.

190 isn’t running during the week. 150 is running on weekends.

 

[jis]

190 isn’t running during the week. 150 is running on weekends.

IMHO Amtrak should have condiered running and earlier morning turn if there really is potential ridership to sjutify it between NHV and BOS. I have no idea how the potential ridership projections are based on time of day on that sector though. But a surrogate Night Owl that runs just the BOS-NHV-BOS segment seems ot be not that hard to do and during the week would help 'commuter" type riders in that segment.

 

[Acela150]

The only problem is that the majority of commuters on 66 get on at PVD.

 

[jis]

The only problem is that the majority of commuters on 66 get on at PVD.

So maybe Amtrak's decision then is the right one. As I said I have no idea what the demand pattern is.

 

[OBS]

The only problem is that the majority of commuters on 66 get on at PVD.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Anderson]

I think a practical work-around could be this:

• Amtrak retains stub trains 6 or 7 nights of the week between New Haven and Boston, coordinate with MN below,
• Ride MN New Haven line train departing GCT at 147am,
• Ride MN New Haven Line train departing New Haven at 1124pm,
• Amtrak cuts a deal with MN to honor Amtrak tickets to and from GCT.

Does not help people transiting New York City.

I mean, that's an Uber/Lyft/whatever. Not ideal but also not utterly unworkable at those hours.

 

[west point]

With these other cutback on NYP<> BOS maybe the Spuyten wye restoration needs to be suggested. MNRR is getting a lot of co-operation from Amtrak closing the Hell Gate overnight. So, MNRR should more that co-operative for track rights Spuyten <> NRO.
1. 2 switches and signaling needed 1 on west side line and one on MNRR.
2. Maybe a little 3rd rail work around new MRR switch.
3. MNRR Spuyten station platform might need work to prevent Amtrak car clearance.
4. Amtrak would need more P-42s be wired to operate with ACS-64s. They could be add/ removed at NYP and NHV.
5. 177 from BBOS could use route as well 128 from NYP. Gives another 1-1/2hourAWW Hell Gate route. + what does Amtrak do if trains are late? Now would Amtrak want to tow Acelas ? Not likely ?? However possibility of substituting regular trains for Acela ? Could use conventual equipment NHV - NYP ?6. MNRR track at Skytel works for merging inbound MN morning trains and early NYP - NRO trains.

Why this exercise? Worried that work on Hell Gate will take longer than planned plus giving more (AWW) absolute work window time to finish work. sooner.

 

[MARC Rider]

The only problem is that the majority of commuters on 66 get on at PVD.

"Majority" can mean anywhere from 50.01% to 99.99% Obviously, the size of the majority can suggest different decisions to be made.

 

[OBS]

"Majority" can mean anywhere from 50.01% to 99.99% Obviously, the size of the majority can suggest different decisions to be made.

Easily 85-90%

 

[BlackDiamond]

The only problem is that the majority of commuters on 66 get on at PVD.

Maybe MBTA should run an express in 66's slot stopping only at RTE and BBY to handle this commuter traffic

 

[daybeers]

190 isn’t running during the week. 150 is running on weekends.

Right, I just mixed up the numbers, but my point of substantial schedule changes still stands. NEC North's schedule stinks right now.

 

[B&Ofan]

Does anyone have any idea on how long this work will take? I tried book 66 in early June but it wasn't showing up on the schedule.