New Amtrak Proposed Routes Map has Dropped

[Exvalley]

Yeah. No. Those people would rather fly.

The northeast to Florida market has tons of non-stop flights and cheap airfares. And yet the Silvers are in high demand. Apparently not everyone prefers to fly.

 

[Exvalley]

New Hampshire is semi-serious about establishing commuter rail between Manchester and Boston. I am not sure if Amtrak would be interested in the same route if the commuter train gets up and running. On the other hand, Amtrak money could bring about the improvements that are needed to the corridor.

 

[Exvalley]

I still wish that there would be a Boston - Montreal train rather than two trains from New York to Montreal.

 

[railiner]

New Hampshire is semi-serious about establishing commuter rail between Manchester and Boston.

I bet they would be more interested, if they could get Vermont to pay for it, the way Maine pays for their Downeaster trains.

 

[Larry H.]

What I see is a lot of eastern trains running mostly in places near existing lines already, and then the whole western part of the Nation which have been ignored forever have almost no improvements in service. The idea that every train has to go though Chicago is a problem. The old National Limited or something similar would open up the midwest to much better service if extended on to Omaha and at least one other North South route in the center of the west to help connect a lot of places that now require totally out of the way and create extra expense which isn't good for traffic or timeing. Maybe something like Texas to Denver connecting eventually to the Empire Builder Routes. No expert on routes but I just feel their neglecting much of the americans who now are totally ignored when it comes to service. As usual all the considerations are mostly east of the Mississippi .

 

[railiner]

Agreed - I wouldn't be surprised if the Hiawatha basically becomes a "trunk line" service with most frequencies extending beyond Chicago, whether it's to Green Bay, MSP via three(?) different routes, and/or a frequency or two stopping at Madison. The current proposed second daily train to Chicago is basically suggested as an extension of a Hiawatha train, so unless track layouts dictate otherwise I'd expect the other routes to be essentially extensions of the Hiawatha Line.

Did this ever become reality? (See footnote 68)


http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=20001029n&item=0044A year later, the extension to Fond Du Lac, was dropped...

 

[NES28]

It's clear that what the new Amtrak represents only shows expansion of "state supported services" (as established in PRIIA 2008 sec 209). Thus they must be under 750 miles and states must pay vast majority of their cost. Nothing is shown that will increase the Amtrak operating deficit in the long run (Amtrak is making introductory offers" with absorbing decreasing amounts of the deficit for the first few years). Yellow highlights are places where there are already state-supported services and they hope to sell more trips ("enhanced service"), light blue highlights where they hope sell new state-supported service.

 

[tricia]

Everyone keeps talking about Chicago to Atlanta and Florida, but lets be honest here. Who would actually use that route?

Lots of folks in the southeast who otherwise have a long drive to the nearest Amtrak station, for trains that currently can only get you to Chicago or Florida via Washington.

I'm also happy to see the connection to Asheville, but skeptical about it actually happening.

 

[jiml]

Another interesting observation from this map is the Canadian services. There was speculation on this forum of the Maple Leaf not coming back after the pandemic (it is also the only route I can find that is not in the booking system for the entirety of the next 11 months). Not only is that still on this map, but it indicates increased service and the addition of Toronto to Chicago service. Adirondack and Cascades service would be increased, with a new route also being added to Montreal along the Vermonter route that appears to be separate from the existing Vermonter.

This was certainly the portion that raised my skepticism. I'm certainly in favor of everything proposed, but the hoops that need to be jumped through will likely preclude most of them in my lifetime.

 

[joelkfla]

If Nashville to Louisville is a problem, are there tracks that could hook Nashville up to the CONO route somewhere south of Carbondale? That would also open up a route for Atlanta to Chicago train.

 

[sttom]

If Nashville to Louisville is a problem, are there tracks that could hook Nashville up to the CONO route somewhere south of Carbondale? That would also open up a route for Atlanta to Chicago train.

There are tracks between Memphis and Nashville. I have no idea what state of repair they are in, but they exist. Nashville/Memphis could also be a good service on the some day list. But this map as a whole is really underwhelming.

 

[Palmetto]

New Hampshire is semi-serious about establishing commuter rail between Manchester and Boston. I am not sure if Amtrak would be interested in the same route if the commuter train gets up and running. On the other hand, Amtrak money could bring about the improvements that are needed to the corridor.

Yes, I thought that was a strange inclusion, and it's the first time Amtrak's name has been mentioned for the route, AFAIK.

 

[jis]

That light blue line in Florida has been on Amtrak's wish list since the late 1970s. A train called the Silver Palm (v1) ran on that route for a couple of years subsidized by FDOT, and then when it did not manage to get to 40% farebox recovery (as was the contract terms) in a few years FDOT pulled the subsidy ending it.

Unless the Florida State government changes in more spectacular ways than one can imagine at present, that Florida part ain't happening soon, unless the feds are willing to underwrite the difference between the balance between cost of operation minus farebox recovery minus 40% of the cost of operation, for the life of the operation, if that.

 

[frequentflyer]

That light blue line in Florida has been on Amtrak's wish list since the late 1970s. A train called the Silver Palm (v1) ran on that route for a couple of years subsidized by FDOT, and then when it did not manage to get to 40% farebox recovery (as was the contract terms) in a few years FDOT pulled the subsidy ending it.

Unless the Florida State government changes in more spectacular ways than one can imagine at present, that Florida part ain't happening soon, unless the feds are willing to underwrite the difference between the balance between cost of operation minus farebox recovery minus 40% of the cost of operation, for the life of the operation, if that.

Why would Florida give Amtrak money when Brightline will have the endpoints of the route covered when their line is done.

Thats what I don't understand, is Amtrak going to compete with Brightline between LA or Victorvilee and LAS? Running 8 hours between DAL-HOU when Texas Central will be up and running in a couple of years? Strange map.

Would love for daily SAT-HOU-NOL service and put an end the SL/TE switching in SAT. Have the TE go from LA-CHI as one consist. The actual running time between SAT-HOU and AUS-FTW is competitive to driving if you take out all of the padding for LD operation. The AUS-FTW route actually makes sense when one thinks of all of the growth north of Austin. Put a station in Round Rock or Hutto and watch ridership explode. The only wrinkle is the Temple-Taylor UP line is not CTC controlled.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Thats what I don't understand, is Amtrak going to compete with Brightline between LA or Victorvilee and LAS? Running 8 hours between DAL-HOU when Texas Central will be up and running in a couple of years? Strange map.

Does Acela compete with the Northeast Regional and New Jersey Transit and Path Trains?

 

[Palmetto]

I still wish that there would be a Boston - Montreal train rather than two trains from New York to Montreal.

That's been talked about for years, running via Springfield. Talk is cheap, though.

 

[frequentflyer]

Does Acela compete with the Northeast Regional and New Jersey Transit and Path Trains?

No, by Acela pricing structure Amtrak lets you know they are concerned about that traffic. Having Brightline heading up I-15 median, and Amtrak on the parallel UP (that in itself is funny as if UP will allow it) between Socal and LAS do not seem feesible.

 

[jis]

Actually my preference would be for Amtrak to prudently use the subsidies given to it to provide service in areas that are not served by other rail outfits already.

In that sense the LA to Las Vegas NV is even more bizarre (or for that matter service to Ronkonkoma on LI) than Amtrak serving the current Amtrak route in Florida. At least that provides service to many localities that will not be directly served by Brightline.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

No, by Acela pricing structure Amtrak lets you know they are concerned about that traffic. Having Brightline heading up I-15 median, and Amtrak on the parallel UP (that in itself is funny as if UP will allow it) between Socal and LAS do not seem feesible.

Well I don’t think brightline will be serving union station will they?

 

[jis]

Well I don’t think brightline will be serving union station will they?

They might very well do so since eventually CAHSR and Brightline are planning for joint existence on the approach to LAX from Palmdale. We don't know for sure what will happen yet, but is quite possible that they would actually serve Union Station from what I have been hearing.

Unless of course we we are talking about Tampa Union Station.

 

[Dustyroad]

They built a train Station in Moline Illinois that would go to Chicago. But that isn't happening now because a farmer is refusing to give up any of his land. It will be interesting to see if the farmers will give up their land in Iowa for the route to Iowa City. But if the train can't get to Chicago, getting to Iowa would be wonderful for the Veterans Hospital and University Hospital in Iowa City.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Another interesting observation from this map is the Canadian services. There was speculation on this forum of the Maple Leaf not coming back after the pandemic (it is also the only route I can find that is not in the booking system for the entirety of the next 11 months). Not only is that still on this map, but it indicates increased service and the addition of Toronto to Chicago service.......

With GO planning increased service Niagara Falls ON once this thing is over.....it would make sense to terminate the Maple Leaf at the Border.

Passengers arriving on the Empire Service would clear Canadian CBSA in a joint facility in the new Amtrak Station on the US side then board a GO Train for Toronto. In the opposite direction....a couple of GO Trains a day could be extended to NF NY where passengers clear US CBP then continue on the Empire Service.

And a joint pre-clearance facility seems to have the backing of Sen Schumer (article from last year):

Schumer to Canada: Implement pre-clearance for Amtrak trains

With a little schedule coordination there could be a couple of services a day each way between Toronto and New York.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

With GO planning increased service Niagara Falls ON once this thing is over.....it would make sense to terminate the Maple Leaf at the Border.

Passengers arriving on the Empire Service would clear Canadian CBSA in a joint facility in the new Amtrak Station on the US side then board a GO Train for Toronto. In the opposite direction....a couple of GO Trains a day could be extended to NF NY where passengers clear US CBP then continue on the Empire Service.

And a joint pre-clearance facility seems to have the backing of Sen Schumer (article from last year):

Schumer to Canada: Implement pre-clearance for Amtrak trains

With a little schedule coordination there could be a couple of services a day each way between Toronto and New York.

I can’t imagine US and Canadian border crossings getting easier... but it’s a lovely dream!

 

[Tlcooper44]

I still wish that there would be a Boston - Montreal train rather than two trains from New York to Montreal.

perhaps they could run something similar to the LSL with this second new route/map.

They could split the train in half and one portion could go to south station and the other to Penn Station.

I can especially imagine this working with a sleeper train. It could fulfill a different time slot.

 

[jis]

We can talk about Niagara Falls after Mr. Verbal Diarrhea can get the Montreal Central pre-clearance done for the Adirondack. With his copious contacts across the border, it should have been done a decade back already.