New dining options (flex dining) effective October 1, 2019

[JRR]

How does Amtrak account for the revenue?

Ryan: That’s a good question. One would have to examine the accounting to know for sure.

I have been told by several knowledgeable folks that they use the meal tickets and count as revenue the amount the sleeper passenger would have paid. I don’t know if this is true but, as I pointed out above, this would be totally fallacious since if a passenger doesn’t eat or only eats a small amount, the revenue is less.

In that case the cost is less( less food consumed).

The true revenue is the portion of the sleeper fare which is attributed to the F&B. The sleeper passenger does not eat “free” but pays in advance for the food whether one eats or not.

The question remains, how does AMTRAK account for revenue?

Sorry, Ryan, I do not know and I’m not sure anyone not in the accounting department does.

One would think, however, that the revenue side would receive more attention since it does determine whether or not the costs are being covered.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Taking another look at the new menu, it does appear they actually are changing up the Asian Noodle Bowl meal that is the sole holdover from the previous revision. Instead of being served with a dressing, it is coming in a garlic-chili sauce. Didn't catch that one before - I am guessing the new one will always be served hot.

I am going to guess those are nothing more than Ramen Noodles with a couple veggies added. I can buy an "add water and microwave" tub of those (complete with a packet of garlic sauce and a packet of dehydrated veggies) at my grocery for less than a buck. Add at most another buck of doctoring and it actually makes a decent under $2 snack/light meal.

 

[Qapla]

how does AMTRAK account for revenue? ... I do not know and I’m not sure anyone not in the accounting department does.

I'm not sure those IN the accounting department know either

I can buy an "add water and microwave" tub of those (complete with a packet of garlic sauce and a packet of dehydrated veggies) at my grocery for less than a buck. Add at most another buck of doctoring and it actually makes a decent under $2 snack/light meal.

The same could be said for a steak ... I can buy a nice steak and throw it on the grill fairly cheap - but, it doesn't stop me from eating a steak out from time-to-time

 

[Ferroequinologist]

From today’s hotline:

“Rail Passengers Association was disappointed to learn this week that Amtrak plans to extend its Contemporary Dining menu and dining service on to all of the long-distance trains east of the Mississippi.

The move takes effect October 1 -- the beginning of Fiscal 2020 -- as part of a package of changes rolling out on trains in the eastern half of the country. Western trains are not affected by this move.”

Ride them while you can ...

Yes and according to a Washington Post article Amtrak's rationale is that millennials (whom they supposedly want to attract) are in a rush and don't have time for dining cars, don't like to converse with strangers and are more interested in their electronics. Strange that they are willing to spend 24 hours on a train but have no time for a meal in a dining car! Strange too that I see them all over my neighborhood spending hours in bars and restaurants. You have to give someone at Amtrak credit for an original phony excuse.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

I’d better plan my trip on the Crescent or is it not included in the contemporary dining?

All East Coast trains are affected. The only train that should see an improvement is the Silver Star. At present it has LESS than 'contemporary dining". The switchover will be an improvement for this train.

 

[user 14106]

Wow, hot, I will be so grateful. (Doesn't quite replace the steak that I have enjoyed in the past or the Angus Burger, etc., however.)

I know, I guess we just have to settle for the little things these days. [emoji30]

 

[user 14106]

All East Coast trains are affected. The only train that should see an improvement is the Silver Star. At present it has LESS than 'contemporary dining". The switchover will be an improvement for this train.

Some would argue it’s a “status quo” or even a slight improvement for the Cardinal and CONO where they are essentially just now standardizing the non full diner into one program (and also Lake Shore Limited when it got contemporary) with the big downgrades being the Meteor, Crescent (and Capitol Limited.) So the Meteor and Crescent will be the big two to watch.

 

[user 14106]

There are several other factors besides these generational stereotypes that skew the ridership towards older generations. On the one hand, retirees are the most likely group to have the free time to travel by Amtrak regularly, and more senior folks are more likely to have the money to be able to afford to stay in a sleeper. A lot of millennials are still relatively early in their working careers and many do not likely have the money and vacation time available to make traveling by train (particularly for longer routes) a feasible option. I am going to get to do my cross country trip because I’m a state employee and get an absurd about of paid time off but many in the private sector do not get so much free time. Another factor is that such a large market within the long distance service is northeast to Florida with a whopping three trains serving the state and its obvious that northeast to Florida seasonal travel by retirees is a huge travel market and the auto train particularly is well catered to that demographic. Those things are also going to skew the overnight travel part of Amtrak towards older riders.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

There are several other factors besides these generational stereotypes that skew the ridership towards older generations. On the one hand, retirees are the most likely group to have the free time to travel by Amtrak regularly, and more senior folks are more likely to have the money to be able to afford to stay in a sleeper. A lot of millennials are still relatively early in their working careers and many do not likely have the money and vacation time available to make traveling by train (particularly for longer routes) a feasible option. I am going to get to do my cross country trip because I’m a state employee and get an absurd about of paid time off but many in the private sector do not get so much free time. Another factor is that such a large market within the long distance service is northeast to Florida with a whopping three trains serving the state and its obvious that northeast to Florida seasonal travel by retirees is a huge travel market and the auto train particularly is well catered to that demographic. Those things are also going to skew the overnight travel part of Amtrak towards older riders.

You’re forgetting that many do not travel end to end. If they’re going on a business trip and they’re on the train during meal time they probably want to eat.

 

[user 1215]

Sorry if this had been addressed already... Presumably, flexible dining will be available eventually to all passengers (sleeping guests get to use the diner). Big question is, available 24/7?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Big question is, available 24/7?

I would imagine the same dining hours would apply.

In all reality if the coach attendants are responsible for delivering your food... you’ll get it when they feel like it.

 

[user 1215]

I would imagine the same dining hours would apply.

In all reality if the coach attendants are responsible for delivering your food... you’ll get it when they feel like it.

I really don't see what the current dining hours have to do with being able to produce food at any given time. The dining hours were set for crew rest, place setting, paperwork, etc. Some of that will still apply, but not all.

The latter part of your argument is irrelevant. You can have a bad crew on any train at any time for any service.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I really don't see what the current dining hours have to do with being able to produce food at any given time. The dining hours were set for crew rest, place setting, paperwork, etc. Some of that will still apply, but not all.

The latter part of your argument is irrelevant. You can have a bad crew on any train at any time for any service.

I meant the current hours for the “contemporary” service. There are still set hours for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

I mean we know it won’t be 24/7 with only 1 LSA, since that LSA will have time off.

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Interesting that the $12 dinner (blue plate special, bottled water and cookie) at your seat for coach customers was discontinued early in the Anderson regime almost 2 years ago. It shouldn’t have been discontinued. The fixed costs were already in place and it brought in some extra revenue to the diner. Customers universally liked it from my experiences.

Why are they now acting like it’s soo hard to bring a dinner (or lunch) in a box to the coach passenger at their seat?

 

[Dakota 400]

The true revenue is the portion of the sleeper fare which is attributed to the F&B. The sleeper passenger does not eat “free” but pays in advance for the food whether one eats or not.

The question remains, how does AMTRAK account for revenue?

Since this sleeper passenger is eating "free", how does that bottle of wine that I purchased with my dinner accounted on the balance sheet?

 

[Dakota 400]

Yes and according to a Washington Post article Amtrak's rationale is that millennials (whom they supposedly want to attract) are in a rush and don't have time for dining cars, don't like to converse with strangers and are more interested in their electronics. Strange that they are willing to spend 24 hours on a train but have no time for a meal in a dining car! Strange too that I see them all over my neighborhood spending hours in bars and restaurants. You have to give someone at Amtrak credit for an original phony excuse.

Many current Amtrak younger passengers: In a rush during their daily lives? Probably. Prefer being involved with their electronics rather than conversing with a stranger across a crowded dining car table? Probably.

Willing to go to a local bar and grill and socialize with others of their generation as they root for their favorite local sports team? Yes. Most certainly.

Consider the ads that I see on TV for beer commercials, sports bars, etc.: What's the message? "Come join us. Drink Beer X. Enjoy a can of a flavored Vodka. Have a plate of the chicken wings. Root with your "friends" (and you said your name was what when you see the person next week) for your favorite local team."

I am not sure that Amtrak's rationale is too far off the mark.

 

[allanorn]

I just reviewed the changes after seeing a news article about them; it's not the disaster I was expecting but it's definitely a downgrade. I do like that they're labeling meals as gluten-free and vegan for those who have dietary restrictions; doubly so if we can pre-order/reserve before boarding. I can survive with this change for a one-night train trip but I wouldn't want this rolled out to multi-night routes.

ÖBB of Austria has contracted out food service on their EC, RJ and possibly the IC services. Last time I was in Europe it was Henry am Zug and the food was so so. And the diner lightly patronized. But of note European train stations unlike most of Amtrak’s have really good food outlets in them so patronage of the diner probably has something to do with that.

One thing I did notice when I was in Europe this past July is that generally good restaurants and grocery stores are in train stations serving larger cities, and that in general you're not on a single train for more than 8-12 hours at a time. Unless you're booking crazy-tight connections and/or are running late, you can find something to eat before boarding, after a train segment, or during a change in trains. ÖBB also did serve-at-the-seat for First/Business class; I didn't get an opportunity to review any of the food or dining cars on board.

Overnight trains are also making a comeback in Europe, but they usually depart after dinnertime. ÖBB serves a continental breakfast on board (you fill out a check-box form at boarding the night before).

 

[Alexandria Nick]

Funny, since I had to ask ...

I would have thought "millennials" would apply to those born in the 2000's - guess we don't all have an idea or know what people mean when they use terms they assume everyone has an idea or knows ...

Came of age around 2000. I'm basically the definition of the term when it was coined: graduated high school in 2000.

Somewhere along the way it got conflated with people more than a decade younger than me who I have no connection with.

 

[chrsjrcj]

People born in the post mid-90's are typically referred to as Gen Z or Zoomers. They have been brought up in an age of the Internet, home computers, and smartphones.

 

[Eric S]

Recently, Pew Research defined recent generations as follows:

Boomers: 1946-1964 (ages 55-73)
Generation X: 1965-1980 (ages 39-54)
Millennial/Y: 1981-1996 (ages 23-38)
Generation Z: 1997-2012 (ages 7-22)

Of course, that's just one organization's definition, but does give an idea of what is meant by Millennial versus Generation Z. Traditional college-age folks (18-22ish) are now Gen Z, not Millennials.

 

[niemi24s]

Aren't all those nifty titles for the different age groups just simply splendid? I just don't know how we'd manage to get along without them. And there's at least four of them. My goodness! How to remember all those ages?

So this Pre-Boomer (by six years) simplifies things by calling them all Yuppies. Don't like it? Lump it!

 

[Palmetto]

Aren't all those nifty titles for the different age groups just simply splendid? I just don't know how we'd manage to get along without them. And there's at least four of them. My goodness! How to remember all those ages?

So this Pre-Boomer (by six years) simplifies things by calling them all Yuppies. Don't like it? Lump it!

Lump it. Takes my back to the fifties, LOL!

 

[Eric S]

Aren't all those nifty titles for the different age groups just simply splendid? I just don't know how we'd manage to get along without them. And there's at least four of them. My goodness! How to remember all those ages?

So this Pre-Boomer (by six years) simplifies things by calling them all Yuppies. Don't like it? Lump it!

Don't worry, you're not left out from the titles - the generation prior to Baby Boomers would be the Silent Generation.

 

[jebr]

Let's get back to talking about the dining changes.

 

[user 14106]

Many current Amtrak younger passengers: In a rush during their daily lives? Probably. Prefer being involved with their electronics rather than conversing with a stranger across a crowded dining car table? Probably.

Willing to go to a local bar and grill and socialize with others of their generation as they root for their favorite local sports team? Yes. Most certainly.

Consider the ads that I see on TV for beer commercials, sports bars, etc.: What's the message? "Come join us. Drink Beer X. Enjoy a can of a flavored Vodka. Have a plate of the chicken wings. Root with your "friends" (and you said your name was what when you see the person next week) for your favorite local team."

I am not sure that Amtrak's rationale is too far off the mark.

I think there is one thing they miss - while this is a gross generalization I have noticed a lot of people in my age group do enjoy unique experiences more than buying “stuff” I certainly fit that mold. Many people I have told about traveling on trains and eating in dining cars and staying in sleeper cars find it intriguing and simply never thought of that as an idea for travel (and many didn’t realize you can take a train to as many places as you can.) taking the train on a long trip is a unique experience that I think fits that mold. If you provided a consistent experience (acceptable food, cleanliness, consistent service, and a price point they can afford) you could appeal to younger folks. Certainly there are people in a rush that never would do it - but there are some that would do it for the experience.