New Gulf Coast service (New Orleans - Mobile and Baton Rouge)

[cirdan]

Does this dolt not know what benefits the port of Mobile benefits the city of Mobile? Mobile is not a "poor little city". The truth is that for years the city has made out like a bandit off state support for the port, which has led to considerable ocean going trade passing through the port. For many years Mobile has simply sat back and let the state pour money into the port facilities to the benefit of the city. Simple: For ocean going trade into the state of Alabama, Mobile is the only game in town.

"

This may be true, but typically cities are not called upon to finance inter city rail service. This is the call of the states if not the federal government.

How many other corridor services are supported by cities versus being supported by the states?

Being poor is often a matter of perspective. Cities with higher tax income typically also have higher spending obligations. Adding to those obligations is always going to be a pain point, no matter how worthy the cause.

 

[John Bredin]

This may be true, but typically cities are not called upon to finance inter city rail service. This is the call of the states if not the federal government.

How many other corridor services are supported by cities versus being supported by the states?

Being poor is often a matter of perspective. Cities with higher tax income typically also have higher spending obligations. Adding to those obligations is always going to be a pain point, no matter how worthy the cause.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but isn't the measure before the city council of Mobile to approve *zoning* for the station (at the location of an existing parking lot no less!) not to spend any money?

Even if City of Mobile has to build the platform and shelter at its expense, that's not being "called upon to finance inter city rail service." Plenty of municipalities pay for the upkeep of their Amtrak station on both corridor (state-financed) and long-distance (federally-financed) services.

Even the dirt-poorest of cities routinely lays a block or two of roadway or sidewalk and replaces a bus shelter without breaking the budget. As has already been pointed out, towns and cities along the route with smaller populations and budgets than Mobile's have made station improvements in anticipation of this new service.

 

[Amtrak25]

ConnectUS countdown clock reduces federal subsidies 20% a year until it is gone. That's why 95% of it is going nowhere. In 2009, 3 Red State governors threw Obama's HSR money right back at him. New York, Vermont, and Maine benefiited. Nothing has changed.

 

[cirdan]

ConnectUS countdown clock reduces federal subsidies 20% a year until it is gone. That's why 95% of it is going nowhere. In 2009, 3 Red State governors threw Obama's HSR money right back at him. New York, Vermont, and Maine benefiited. Nothing has changed.

Didn't California end up taking much of the money Florida rejected?

From memory, much of the HSR money directed at the NEC was required to catch up on maintenance or replace end-of-life infrastructure rather than deliver substantial improvements.

 

[John Bredin]

So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.

Amtrak also acknowledged that it has asked Mobile for a little more than $3 million – “which is the same amount the City of Mobile already approved in 2020” – to cover the first three years of restored service.

However, Amtrak explained in the Parties’ joint status report that Amtrak is not asking for any funds beyond the first three years or beyond what the City already approved in 2020.

 

[jis]

So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.

This sort of contribution from City or County for initial construction of station is not at all unusual, and it now spans state agency run service as well as Brightline type private run service, in addition to Amtrak. Witness the contributions being made by Counties and Cities for the infill stations.

 

[user 14106]

And the reason for the city having to pay the operating subsidy is because Governor Ivey is diametrically opposed to the service and will not provide any funding so the city was the work around that the Southern Rail Commission came up with. A change at the state level could change things up and make them a little more willing to contribute some - maybe half.

 

[user 14106]

https://www.al.com/news/2024/05/ala...le-about-possible-commitment-for-amtrak.html?

A glimmer of hope that maybe Ivey may budge?

 

[joelkfla]

So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.

The way I read it, the Mobile council members are more concerned over ongoing operating expenses, particularly as federal subsidies subside.

 

[user 14106]

https://www.al.com/news/2024/06/mob...-to-invest-one-third-into-amtrak-subsidy.html

A potential agreement in the works in which the City of Mobile, the state of Alabama, and the Port of Mobile authority would split the operating subsidy 3 ways. Quite a remarkable turnaround for both Ivey and the port if it all works out.

 

[John Bredin]

I thought the port authority (and its legislative supporters) was one of the principal remaining (post-STB & Amtrak dealing with the host railroads) obstacles to Gulf Coast passenger service. For them to go from opposing it to partially funding it sounds like a minor miracle.

 

[hastybob]

Need to look behind scenes - They are only interested in the upgrades and money the Gulf Coast service will bring to the railroad. Both the city and the port are more interested in that than the service. Need to watch the Youtube video of the meet a week or so ago to hear what they are most concerned about. To them, the train will only drain tourism from Mobile and Mobile won't get anything out of it. Everyone will take the train to New Orleans and not to Mobile. They are not interested in providing alternative transportation to driving. If it weren't for the infrastructure upgrades, this would not happen.
Bob

 

[George Harris]

Will these trains provide any reasonable connectivity to the City of New Orleans or the Sunset? A CNO to/from gulf train for a Gulf Coast point or Mobile would be nice. Throw in Mobile to Pensacola is less than an hour's drive.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Need to look behind scenes - They are only interested in the upgrades and money the Gulf Coast service will bring to the railroad. Both the city and the port are more interested in that than the service. Need to watch the Youtube video of the meet a week or so ago to hear what they are most concerned about. To them, the train will only drain tourism from Mobile and Mobile won't get anything out of it. Everyone will take the train to New Orleans and not to Mobile. They are not interested in providing alternative transportation to driving. If it weren't for the infrastructure upgrades, this would not happen.
Bob

Alabama State Port Authority, once opposed to Amtrak, backs Gulf Coast rail with $1 million subsidy (AL.com via MSN.com)
The story agrees on the port being focused on its rail improvements. Where its says "based on the fate" on the CRISI grant, it means the grant was awarded. Tourism is mentioned as a benefit, not a drain, so there must have been some back and forth on that!

Then comes the kicker, the port, the city and the state each need to contribute $1m for the $3m operating subsidy for the first three years. And the state legislature doesn't meet till next year! So the governor would have to find money that is not being used. The whole thing sounds like shadowlands, but if you switch to a story linked from https://www.southernrailcommission.org/news you get this:

If the state does not come up with the money right away, Stimpson said it could eventually help fund the operation. Either way, the Port Authority and the city may be able to pay half the project costs until the state does find the money.

Also mentioned in the meeting was that Louisiana and Mississippi are funding the operating subsidy from state funds, not local or port.

Ultimately much of this money is federal, including money towards making Mobile, fourth in volume of the Gulf ports, the deepest by next year (50 vs. 45 feet). Seaport and large airport boards have high capital costs, long contracts (seaport labor is coming to a head right now), and generate their own revenue, putting them in a different position from most public bodies. I'm still waiting for smaller airports to get pressured to support public transit.

 

[thetourman]

Mobile council may vote against subsidizing Amtrak service.


https://mynbc15.com/news/local/amtraks-return-to-mobile-derailed#

 

[joelkfla]

Mobile council may vote against subsidizing Amtrak service.


https://mynbc15.com/news/local/amtraks-return-to-mobile-derailed#

Fie on them.

 

[John Bredin]

Somebody should start and prominently promote a GoFundMe for Mobile's share for this service, simultaneously embarrassing the opposing city councillors (if they can be embarrassed) and make it clear that people want the service. It should be started by a Mobilian (Mobilite?) or at least someone from one of the communities on this route, so it's not discounted by rail opponents as blue-staters or railfans parachuting in while "real" Alabamans don't want the train.

 

[Anthony V]

Is there any possible alternative way forward without Mobile's support? It would be really tragic for the project to be canceled at the 1-yd line.

 

[cassie225]

This would be so sad if it were not pushed forward

 

[eldomtom2]

Progress seems to be finally happening:
https://www.fox10tv.com/2024/07/24/long-stalled-amtrak-plan-appears-be-go-mobile/

The City Council next week will consider a long-stalled plan to return passenger train service to the Port City for the first time since Hurricane Katrina.

Candace Cooksey, a spokeswoman for Mayor Sandy Stimpson, told FOX10 News that the city and Amtrak had finalized the language for a funding agreement and a ground lease to pave the way for a train stop downtown. And City Councilman Josh Woods, who had opposed subsidizing Amtrak, told FOX10 News that he has changed his mind.

Woods said after reviewing the latest version of the agreement, he is comfortable voting “yes.” That would appear to ensure at least five votes, the minimum necessary to pass most measures.

Woods said he is confident that the city’s share of the subsidy does not bind the city after the initial three-year period and that other sources would have to be found.

“We’re not intending to be on the hook for Amtrak for the rest of our lives,” he said.

 

[BarryATL]

Progress seems to be finally happening:
https://www.fox10tv.com/2024/07/24/long-stalled-amtrak-plan-appears-be-go-mobile/

I wonder from the time Mobile approves the contract until we see trains running?

 

[west point]

I wonder from the time Mobile approves the contract until we see trains running?

A very big impediment is the installation of the station track. As understood a power switch off the main track is to be installed. Now has CSX even started doing the engineering for that station track? once the engineering is complete a left hand turnout will have to be specified and constructed and installed. Signal masts will need installing. A signal bungalow will need wiring up and then placed at the turnout. Then wiring of the switch and signals will have to be run to the bungalow. Testing of the turnout including any effects on grade crossings will also need verifying.

It is going to take time. Now who is going to build the station siding is not clear and can it be built before the permanent station is complete?

 

[George Harris]

A very big impediment is the installation of the station track. As understood a power switch off the main track is to be installed. Now has CSX even started doing the engineering for that station track? once the engineering is complete a left hand turnout will have to be specified and constructed and installed. Signal masts will need installing. A signal bungalow will need wiring up and then placed at the turnout. Then wiring of the switch and signals will have to be run to the bungalow. Testing of the turnout including any effects on grade crossings will also need verifying.

It is going to take time. Now who is going to build the station siding is not clear and can it be built before the permanent station is complete?

You are making this sound much bigger than it really is. Almost everything you have listed is straight out of the box stuff CSX does every day. Except for the overall layout it is simply a matter of grabbing the company's standard plans and stacking them together.

 

[Cal H]

This is good news for the Mobile end. What is happening on the Baton Rouge end? Seems like that could be a much easier project since it’s all within Lousiana.

 

[rwb1122]

Why not extend it through Baton Rouge to St.Francisville, Woodville, Natchez and Vicksburg. From there, a connection could be made with the Magnolia Star to Dallas and beyond.