New Gulf Coast service (New Orleans - Mobile and Baton Rouge)

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George Harris said:
Does this dolt not know what benefits the port of Mobile benefits the city of Mobile? Mobile is not a "poor little city". The truth is that for years the city has made out like a bandit off state support for the port, which has led to considerable ocean going trade passing through the port. For many years Mobile has simply sat back and let the state pour money into the port facilities to the benefit of the city. Simple: For ocean going trade into the state of Alabama, Mobile is the only game in town.

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This may be true, but typically cities are not called upon to finance inter city rail service. This is the call of the states if not the federal government.

How many other corridor services are supported by cities versus being supported by the states?

Being poor is often a matter of perspective. Cities with higher tax income typically also have higher spending obligations. Adding to those obligations is always going to be a pain point, no matter how worthy the cause.
 
cirdan said:
This may be true, but typically cities are not called upon to finance inter city rail service. This is the call of the states if not the federal government.

How many other corridor services are supported by cities versus being supported by the states?

Being poor is often a matter of perspective. Cities with higher tax income typically also have higher spending obligations. Adding to those obligations is always going to be a pain point, no matter how worthy the cause.
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Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but isn't the measure before the city council of Mobile to approve *zoning* for the station (at the location of an existing parking lot no less!) not to spend any money?

Even if City of Mobile has to build the platform and shelter at its expense, that's not being "called upon to finance inter city rail service." Plenty of municipalities pay for the upkeep of their Amtrak station on both corridor (state-financed) and long-distance (federally-financed) services.

Even the dirt-poorest of cities routinely lays a block or two of roadway or sidewalk and replaces a bus shelter without breaking the budget. As has already been pointed out, towns and cities along the route with smaller populations and budgets than Mobile's have made station improvements in anticipation of this new service.
 
Amtrak25 said:
ConnectUS countdown clock reduces federal subsidies 20% a year until it is gone. That's why 95% of it is going nowhere. In 2009, 3 Red State governors threw Obama's HSR money right back at him. New York, Vermont, and Maine benefiited. Nothing has changed.
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Didn't California end up taking much of the money Florida rejected?

From memory, much of the HSR money directed at the NEC was required to catch up on maintenance or replace end-of-life infrastructure rather than deliver substantial improvements.
 
So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.

Amtrak also acknowledged that it has asked Mobile for a little more than $3 million – “which is the same amount the City of Mobile already approved in 2020” – to cover the first three years of restored service.

However, Amtrak explained in the Parties’ joint status report that Amtrak is not asking for any funds beyond the first three years or beyond what the City already approved in 2020.
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John Bredin said:
So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.
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This sort of contribution from City or County for initial construction of station is not at all unusual, and it now spans state agency run service as well as Brightline type private run service, in addition to Amtrak. Witness the contributions being made by Counties and Cities for the infill stations.
 
And the reason for the city having to pay the operating subsidy is because Governor Ivey is diametrically opposed to the service and will not provide any funding so the city was the work around that the Southern Rail Commission came up with. A change at the state level could change things up and make them a little more willing to contribute some - maybe half.
 
John Bredin said:
So I went back and found I was mistaken somewhat: the City of Mobile is being asked for money. However, it's a modest sum, as some googling shows the City of Mobile annual budget is over $330 million and the City has an "unassigned general fund balance of $132 million of which $55 million is required to be maintained as a rainy-day fund."

Moreover, it's a one-time payment that the City already agreed to.
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The way I read it, the Mobile council members are more concerned over ongoing operating expenses, particularly as federal subsidies subside.
 
Need to look behind scenes - They are only interested in the upgrades and money the Gulf Coast service will bring to the railroad. Both the city and the port are more interested in that than the service. Need to watch the Youtube video of the meet a week or so ago to hear what they are most concerned about. To them, the train will only drain tourism from Mobile and Mobile won't get anything out of it. Everyone will take the train to New Orleans and not to Mobile. They are not interested in providing alternative transportation to driving. If it weren't for the infrastructure upgrades, this would not happen.
Bob
 
Will these trains provide any reasonable connectivity to the City of New Orleans or the Sunset? A CNO to/from gulf train for a Gulf Coast point or Mobile would be nice. Throw in Mobile to Pensacola is less than an hour's drive.
 
hastybob said:
Need to look behind scenes - They are only interested in the upgrades and money the Gulf Coast service will bring to the railroad. Both the city and the port are more interested in that than the service. Need to watch the Youtube video of the meet a week or so ago to hear what they are most concerned about. To them, the train will only drain tourism from Mobile and Mobile won't get anything out of it. Everyone will take the train to New Orleans and not to Mobile. They are not interested in providing alternative transportation to driving. If it weren't for the infrastructure upgrades, this would not happen.
Bob
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Alabama State Port Authority, once opposed to Amtrak, backs Gulf Coast rail with $1 million subsidy (AL.com via MSN.com)
The story agrees on the port being focused on its rail improvements. Where its says "based on the fate" on the CRISI grant, it means the grant was awarded. Tourism is mentioned as a benefit, not a drain, so there must have been some back and forth on that!

Then comes the kicker, the port, the city and the state each need to contribute $1m for the $3m operating subsidy for the first three years. And the state legislature doesn't meet till next year! So the governor would have to find money that is not being used. The whole thing sounds like shadowlands, but if you switch to a story linked from https://www.southernrailcommission.org/news you get this:
If the state does not come up with the money right away, Stimpson said it could eventually help fund the operation. Either way, the Port Authority and the city may be able to pay half the project costs until the state does find the money.
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Also mentioned in the meeting was that Louisiana and Mississippi are funding the operating subsidy from state funds, not local or port.

Ultimately much of this money is federal, including money towards making Mobile, fourth in volume of the Gulf ports, the deepest by next year (50 vs. 45 feet). Seaport and large airport boards have high capital costs, long contracts (seaport labor is coming to a head right now), and generate their own revenue, putting them in a different position from most public bodies. I'm still waiting for smaller airports to get pressured to support public transit.
 
Somebody should start and prominently promote a GoFundMe for Mobile's share for this service, simultaneously embarrassing the opposing city councillors (if they can be embarrassed) and make it clear that people want the service. It should be started by a Mobilian (Mobilite?) or at least someone from one of the communities on this route, so it's not discounted by rail opponents as blue-staters or railfans parachuting in while "real" Alabamans don't want the train.
 
Is there any possible alternative way forward without Mobile's support? It would be really tragic for the project to be canceled at the 1-yd line.
 
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