New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC

[west point]

I have heard that the train will be operated with Miami OBS between Miami and Washington DC, and Chicago OBS between Washington and Chicago. New Chef positions have been created in the Chicago base to handle traditional dining on this train. Maybe those new folks are coming on line before the trains actually become run through. Just wondering idly I suppose.

Does that mean that the OBS persons from both directions will lay over in WASH almost 24 hours?? This also sounds as if restocking of the diner will occur with changes of chefs? IMO that would be a big waste of OBS and salary.

Then how often will there be loco changes at WASH? What about refueling the locos? Arrivals and departures will suspect that there may be conflict going to / from lower level to CSX tracks having to cross all the inbound tracks from PHL. Maybe the restoration of track and platform (22?) can be used both directions if 40 & 41 do not arrive at same time?

 

[zephyr17]

I think most everyone will agree that the potential for events occurring that can delay a long-distance train (freight interference, trespasser incidents, equipment failures, signal issues, track work, derailments, sever weather incidents, etc.) increases in direct proportion to the distance that must be traveled. As we have seen, just traveling the distance from Washington, D.C. to Chicago sometimes resulted in the Capitol Limited running hours late or having to be canceled outright. Add to this the distance between Miami and Washington D.C. and the odds of trains being delayed become even greater. There are probably some safeguards built into the schedule. For example, if a hurricane threatens Miami, No. 40 would probably originate at some point further north that was out of the hurricane’s path. We’ll just have to wait and see how the Floridian performs.

Yes. And given that, if I book the Floridian in the future instead of the Lake Shore, which I probably will, I will likely build in a westbound layover in Chicago. That's because the new Floridian will be subject to the same exposure to accumulating delays the western LDs are subject to and merits the same considerations in my mind that eastbound connections in Chicago do.

BTW, @Eric in East County , I'd take the LSL returning from Toledo in the future rather than the Floridian.

 

[jis]

Dopes that mean that the OBS persons from both directions will lay over in WASH almost 24 hours?? This also sounds as if restocking of the diner will occur with changes of chefs? IMO that would be a big waste of OBS and salary. Th

Absolutely no change from where the crew overnights now. Only extra crew is the Chef out of CHI.

Then how often will there be loco changes at WASH?

No loco change, though at present I believe the Star operates with two while the Cap with one. I suspect the locos will just run through. No need to change them. They can be fueled at RVR and be able to run through to PGH before needing refueling.

Arrivals and departures will suspect that there may be conflict going to / from lower level to CSX tracks having to cross all the inbound tracks from PHL.

I wouldn't worry about that. the Cap departs from and arrives at the lower level tracks often enough already, and all that happens at non-rush hours when there is relatively little traffic through the Union Station throat to the north/east. All VRE trains also face that conflict moving to/from the yard and that is at a much busier time.

 

[zephyr17]

Dopes that mean that the OBS persons from both directions will lay over in WASH almost 24 hours?? This also sounds as if restocking of the diner will occur with changes of chefs? IMO that would be a big waste of OBS and salary.

Then how often will there be loco changes at WASH? Arrivals and departures will suspect that there may be conflict going to / from lower level to CSX tracks having to cross all the inbound tracks from PHL. Maybe the restoration of track and platform (22?) can be used both directions if 40 & 41 do not arrive at same time?

My guess is the OBS change at WAS is due to labor contract issues. Neither the MIA nor the CHI OBS bases will have wanted to lose jobs and probably the contracts are written in such a way that they have a lot of rights to resist such changes. Keeping the same OBS assignments was no doubt the path of least resistance.

Chances are the diners will be stocked at MIA and CHI. The WAS commisary does not currently support Traditional Dining and stocking a diner for 6 meals (L, D, B, L, D, B north/west bound. D, B, L, D, B, L east/south bound) is a routine business. While no doubt Aramark could add traditional dining support at WAS, for a price, there really is no reason to.

I doubt that, without the need to change to electric motors at WAS, there will be an engine change at WAS. Other LDs generally do not change engines enroute, absent other needs (splits and the swap of P32AC-DMs for non dual mode diesels at Albany).

 

[basketmaker]

It will use consists that look like the current Silver Star consist. So yes, single level Amfleet and Viewliner.


I don't think a Floridian via Atlanta (which BTW Amtrak has never ever run before) will happen in the next twenty years, whereas the Star and Cap returning to their original identities could happen as early as in two years when the East River Tunnel work is completed in New York City area.

Are you saying that Amtrak never ran the Floridian or just not through Atlanta? I rode the Amtrak Floridian from Nashville to Miami a week before it's demise. I remember we went through Birmingham and not Atlanta. I think we went south toward Dothan and I remember a long stop in Climax, GA yard maybe for refueling and crew change. It is a shame that the rebirth of the Floridian goes northeast instead of close to basically the old route but thru Atlanta, Chattanooga and Nashville (an extremely popular city). I lived there for 28 years and now the closet (3:00+ drive ) station is Fulton, KY late at night. Made that trip several times.

 

[zephyr17]

Are you saying that Amtrak never ran the Floridian or just not through Atlanta? I rode the Amtrak Floridian from Nashville to Miami a week before it's demise. I remember we went through Birmingham and not Atlanta. I think we went south toward Dothan and I remember a long stop in Climax, GA yard maybe for refueling and crew change. It is a shame that the rebirth of the Floridian goes northeast instead of close to basically the old route but thru Atlanta, Chattanooga and Nashville (an extremely popular city). I lived there for 28 years and now the closet (3:00+ drive ) station is Fulton, KY late at night. Made that trip several times.

Amtrak never had a Chicago-Florida train that went through Atlanta. The Floridian went through Birmingham and was pretty much the PRR-L&N-SCL South Wind.

Neither the South Wind nor the IC-CoG-SCL City of Miami served Atlanta. The C&EI-L&N-NC&StL-CoG-ACL Dixie Flagler/Dixieland and the Dixie Flyer did serve Atlanta, but the Dixie Flyer, the last survivor, was cut back north of Atlanta in 1965.

 

[jis]

Are you saying that Amtrak never ran the Floridian or just not through Atlanta? I rode the Amtrak Floridian from Nashville to Miami a week before it's demise. I remember we went through Birmingham and not Atlanta. I think we went south toward Dothan and I remember a long stop in Climax, GA yard maybe for refueling and crew change. It is a shame that the rebirth of the Floridian goes northeast instead of close to basically the old route but thru Atlanta, Chattanooga and Nashville (an extremely popular city). I lived there for 28 years and now the closet (3:00+ drive ) station is Fulton, KY late at night. Made that trip several times.

Amtrak never ran a train from Chicago to Florida via Atlanta. As a matter of fact, IIRC the only via Atalanta train from the Midwest to Florida did not last to the start of Amtrak.

The FRA study contemplates running two trains between Chattanooga and Atlanta including one to/from Florida. But I doubt anything will happen of the sort until Atlanta manages to buckle up and get a new station to serve them. Won't happen through the Peachtree Station.

 

[Amtrak25]

I thought the Cap Ltd OBS was based in Washington ?

 

[jis]

I thought the Cap Ltd OBS was based in Washington ?

There is no LD OBS crew base in Washington. The Cap Ltd OBS crew is out of Chicago.

 

[OBS]

My guess is the OBS change at WAS is due to labor contract issues. Neither the MIA nor the CHI OBS bases will have wanted to lose jobs and probably the contracts are written in such a way that they have a lot of rights to resist such changes. Keeping the same OBS assignments was no doubt the path of least resistance.

Chances are the diners will be stocked at MIA and CHI. The WAS commisary does not currently support Traditional Dining and stocking a diner for 6 meals (L, D, B, L, D, B north/west bound. D, B, L, D, B, L east/south bound) is a routine business. While no doubt Aramark could add traditional dining support at WAS, for a price, there really is no reason to.

I doubt that, without the need to change to electric motors at WAS, there will be an engine change at WAS. Other LDs generally do not change engines enroute, absent other needs (splits and the swap of P32AC-DMs for non dual mode diesels at Albany).

The OBS contracts have no provision/protection whatsoever. Amtrak is free to schedule staffing wherever they wish, and the OBS employees have to adapt accordingly.

 

[Eric in East County]

I'd take the LSL returning from Toledo in the future rather than the Floridian.

A point well taken. We will be revising our tickets shortly.

 

[jis]

I'd take the LSL returning from Toledo in the future rather than the Floridian.

A point well taken. We will be revising our tickets shortly.

For the time being at least, the LSL will have double the number of Sleepers compared to the Floridian. That might change a bit later next year.

 

[zephyr17]

The OBS contracts have no provision/protection whatsoever. Amtrak is free to schedule staffing wherever they wish, and the OBS employees have to adapt accordingly.

Scheduling I get, but no protection on moving jobs to different crew bases?

 

[cocojacoby]

But

I don't think a Floridian via Atlanta (which BTW Amtrak has never ever run before) will happen in the next twenty years, whereas the Star and Cap returning to their original identities could happen as early as in two years when the East River Tunnel work is completed in New York City area.

What if the Floridian through service becomes really successful and popular? Time will tell but maybe the Star comes back as a separate train? We will see I guess.

 

[zephyr17]

For the time being at least, the LSL will have double the number of Sleepers compared to the Floridian. That might change a bit later next year.

Doesn't the LSL have 2 New York sleepers and 1 Boston sleeper while the Floridian has 2 sleepers? That is what the inventory seen on railsforless.us seems to show, based on bedroom count. The LSL has more sleeper capacity east of Albany, than the Floridian has, but not double.

 

[Eric in East County]

A point well taken. We will be revising our tickets shortly.

On second thought, we will keep our Floridian No. 40 ticket for the time being to see how this train performs. Lake Shore Limited No. 49 has always been our train of last resort if something happened to Capitol Limited No. 29 that prevented it from connecting with SWC No. 3 in Chicago. If we exchanged our No. 40 ticket for a No. 49 ticket, we’d feel pretty foolish if No. 40 arrived on time and it was No. 49 that failed to connect with SWC No. 3.

 

[jis]

Doesn't the LSL have 2 New York sleepers and 1 Boston sleeper while the Floridian has 2 sleepers? That is what the inventory seen on railsforless.us seems to show, based on bedroom count. The LSL has more sleeper capacity east of Albany, than the Floridian has, but not double.

LSL is getting a third NY Sleeper.

 

[zephyr17]

LSL is getting a third NY Sleeper.

Doesn't appear to be reflected in the reservation system yet. It would be a good thing, though, might mean more lower bucket availability on that notoriously expensive train. Not that even low buckets on the LSL are a bargain.

 

[niemi24s]

Below, find a tentative fare bucket chart for the new Floridian which begins service around 10 Nov this year.



With 6 Roomette fares found thus far, I suspect there are a total of 8 buckets so if anybody spots a fare not shown above, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Qapla]

Yes, the new Floridian shows up in the booking ... but all has no been updated. On the Routes and Destinations page


They are listed alphabetically, and the Floridian has not been inserted ... yet

Also, under the Silver Service


The Star is still listed as one of the trains.

Hopefully, they will insert it soon and not forget to update this page


Also, Wikipedia has a page on the Floridian - but, it has not been updated by anyone either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floridian_(train)

 

[frequentflyer]

My theory is that this will be a temporary thing until they can sort out the equipment issues, and then possibly getting the actual Floridian running via Atlanta. After that, the Cap and Star will come back. Either way, this is very interesting to see from my perspective, as Amtrak hasn't added a new LD train since I've been alive, even if it really is just combining two existing ones.

You are not going through ATL anytime soon. Not if CSX and NS have a say.

 

[Seaboarder3023]

You are not going through ATL anytime soon. Not if CSX and NS have a say.

I never said it would be soon. But with the LD study wrapping up, they’ll almost certainly place a Chicago-Miami train via Louisville-Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta-Jacksonville as a priority (I’d be surprised if they don’t), and if they can get that started then the current Floridian would be reverted back to the Cap and Star once it’s done. Like I said, it’s only a theory; I wasn’t even alive the last time Amtrak added a new LD train so I’ve never seen this before.

 

[OBS]

Scheduling I get, but no protection on moving jobs to different crew bases?

None. You can transfer to another Crew Base or acccept a furlough if there are no other OBS positions in that Crew Base you are qualified for or wish to train for.

 

[BlackDiamond]

I'll bet Wikipedia gets updated before the Amtrak Routes and Destinations does.

I wonder why they violated the normal numbering of odd for Westbound and Even for Eastbound, and made Westbound Floridian #40 and Eastbound #41?

 

[Palmland]

I'll bet Wikipedia gets updated before the Amtrak Routes and Destinations does.

I wonder why they violated the normal numbering of odd for Westbound and Even for Eastbound, and made Westbound Floridian #40 and Eastbound #41?

Maybe they consider this a southbound train with odd for south, like 97/91.