New train (40-41 Floridian) between Miami and Chicago via Washington DC

[Qapla]

They did update the Routes page:






However, the "Silver Service" page still says:

 

[John Santos]

I get fleet utilization efficiencies being a tangible reason for this change, but does this really make that big of an impact with regard to the East River Tunnel Project? Is it worth the incredible work required to make this change only temporary?

The 91 departs NYP at about 11AM so probably transits the ERT at about 10. I suspect this is during a mid-morning lull after the morning commute. The 92 is scheduled to arrive at NYP at about 7PM, but often (both today and tomorrow's arrival is early, by as much as an hour according to the transitdocs map, so would transit the ERT between 6:30 and 7:30, at the end of the evening rush. They are also occupying a platform at NYP for a significant amount of time, thus blocking other trains from transiting the tunnels. I don't think this is very much, nor at the worst possible times, but I suppose every bit helps. I suspect the equipment utilization issue has much greater impact, but maybe Amtrak decided it was harder to explain. It also begs the question why (if this true), they didn't include the CL in the new bi-level RFP (or did they?)

I think making the Floridian permanent and bi-level (after the bi-level equipment is delivered) would make the most sense. I assume delivery of the new bi-levels would take a couple of years, but converting the Floridian to bi-level could be done using retiring Superliners as soon as enough "retired" Superliners become available.

Keeping the Floridian and re-instating the single-level Star on the current schedule would be redundant south of DC, spreading out the arrival and departure times is in principle better. If they want to expand Florida service, I think re-instating the Star on a modified schedule or extending the Palmetto (which IIRC was originally the NYP to Florida Silver Palm), if the schedule works better, should be pretty easy, once the ETR work is done.

As to your second question, "Is it worth the incredible work required to make this change only temporary?", as things go, I think it was not "incredible work" to replace the CL and SS with the Floridian. No new track, no new stations or platforms required, existing schedule slots, saving an engine change in DC. This is just about the simplest "new" long distance service imaginable.

(Note I have no particular expertise. All of my railroading experience is based on being a passenger and playing with Lionel and HO trains as a child.)

 

[NEPATrainTraveler]

Kinda wish the Floridian would start running earlier in November. Would’ve been nice to have traditional dining for my journey back to the northeast.

 

[west point]

And where is the Star refueled? Certainly, will not refuel at the platform in WASH.

 

[Literalman]

"getting off earlier costs more (Newark Airport, for example)": I think that the higher cost for getting off at Newark Airport is to pay for the monorail fare to get to the airline terminals.

 

[Amtrak25]

Are coach passengers allowed in the diner on the Silvers ?

 

[zephyr17]

Just this afternoon, we received another update to our reservation for a passage from Toledo to Chicago next May. Our reservation was originally for Capitol Limited No. 29. Then yesterday, we received an update saying that we would now be on Floridian No. 40 with same departure and arrival times as CL No. 29. As of this afternoon, our reservation has been updated once again to show that we’ll be on Capitol Limited No. 40 with the same departure and arrival times as Floridian No. 40. Have they now decided to operate the No. 40 train under two different names with the name change occurring once it departs from Washington, D.C. for Chicago?

Probably just Amtrak IT up to its usual tricks. It's likely just a minor glitch as the various places the name resides get updated. Amtrak probably has duplicate data all over the place.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I just did a test booking for a random date in early December from Pittsburgh to Miami in roomette. Direct via The Floridian is $1,143. Going on the Pennsylvanian in coach to Philadelphia and the Meteor to Miami is $764. $379 for an extra couple of traditional dining meals? Wow.

 

[PatchesC]

Kinda wish the Floridian would start running earlier in November. Would’ve been nice to have traditional dining for my journey back to the northeast.

Was kinda hoping they would have connected Card & SM in DC with daily service (is that even possible physically?). I just want to take a long trip without connections and buses. Lol But since the intention included getting Superliners west, not gonna happen.

Are coach passengers allowed in the diner on the Silvers ?

Yes

 

[PatchesC]

I just did a test booking for a random date in early December from Pittsburgh to Miami in roomette. Direct via The Floridian is $1,143. Going on the Pennsylvanian in coach to Philadelphia and the Meteor to Miami is $764. $379 for an extra couple of traditional dining meals? Wow

Was comparing June dates from Indy or Orlando (Via Card, bus, SM) vs going to Chicago and riding Floridian. Some dates are much cheaper to head up to Chicago, it would add 10hrs travel including Layover in Chicago. Reverse is the same: sporadic dates cheaper to do one vs the other. Add in 2 Traditional meals instead of Flex, it'll be a toss up. Maybe they take advantage of limited Cardinal days to play with Floridian fares?

 

[Septa9739]

I just did a test booking for a random date in early December from Pittsburgh to Miami in roomette. Direct via The Floridian is $1,143. Going on the Pennsylvanian in coach to Philadelphia and the Meteor to Miami is $764. $379 for an extra couple of traditional dining meals? Wow.

It’s not just meals. The Star regularly gets to be more expensive than the Meteor due to supply and demand, as stops at RGH and TPA add significant ridership over the more rural (and direct) Meteor. There is also likely a factored in expense because a CHI-WAS sale is more likely than a CHI-PGH, and PGH-WAS sale.

 

[zephyr17]

Was comparing June dates from Indy or Orlando (Via Card, bus, SM) vs going to Chicago and riding Floridian. Some dates are much cheaper to head up to Chicago, it would add 10hrs travel including Layover in Chicago. Reverse is the same: sporadic dates cheaper to do one vs the other. Add in 2 Traditional meals instead of Flex, it'll be a toss up. Maybe they take advantage of limited Cardinal days to play with Floridian fares?

Just an FYI, if you want to take the Card, take it eastbound. Eastbound is much better for scenery. You get all of West Virginia in daylight, including the whole New River Gorge. Westbound, it gets dark in the middle of the good stuff.

If you are going both ways, I'd do the Card/Meteor east/south bound and the Floridian north/west bound.

 

[crescent2]

From Amtrak:

Two iconic routes combine to create a new travel experience

WASHINGTON – Amtrak customers can now purchase tickets on the Floridian, a new temporary route offering a direct round-trip between Chicago and Miami with intermediate stops in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C., Jacksonville, Orlando, and Tampa that will take customers to these cities in comfort and style. This train combines the routes of the Capitol Limited and Silver Star for a limited time and makes its inaugural trip on Sunday, Nov. 10.

“The Floridian offers customers an exceptional and sustainable journey to great destinations between Chicago and Miami, providing the amenities and delicious food our guests enjoy when traveling with us,” Amtrak Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer Eliot Hamlisch said.

Customers traveling in Coach Class enjoy wide, reclining seats with ample legroom, no middle seat, and windows to enjoy the scenery. For extra comfort and additional privacy, customers can upgrade to a First Class private room. For an additional fee, a limited number of dining car meals are also available for Coach Class customers.

First Class private room options include a Roomette—featuring two reclining seats that transform into upper and lower beds by night and shower access—or a Bedroom offering twice the space of a Roomette and an in-room restroom and shower. The private rooms have large bi-level windows, a sink and a dedicated attendant who provides turndown service, assists with meals, helps with luggage and shares great stories of life on the rails.

All customers in private rooms receive complimentary lounge access at major stations and priority boarding.

The Floridian will offer Traditional Dining service in the Dining Car, a complimentary amenity for customers traveling in First Class private rooms. This popular service, experienced in a dining car with bi-level windows, will feature several enhancements, including chef-prepared meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner; table service with glassware, cutlery and linen tablecloths; vegetarian and vegan menu options; selections for children and a complimentary alcoholic drink with dinner. The menu offers several customer favorites, including:

• Amtrak Signature Railroad French Toast, Three Egg Omelet for breakfast;
• Artisan Grilled Cheese Sandwich, Natural Angus Burger, Vegan Chili Bowl for lunch;
• Amtrak Signature Flat Iron Steak, Atlantic Salmon, Rigatoni Bolognese for dinner.

Café service, also featuring a newly updated menu, will be available onboard for all customers, offering a variety of meals, snacks and beverages for sale.

Amtrak is temporarily combining the Capitol Limited and Silver Star trains to create the Floridian due to the upcoming East River Tunnel Rehabilitation Project in New York. During this project, one tunnel tube will be closed at a time, minimizing service impacts, maximizing construction access and modernizing the tunnel infrastructure to serve customers for another 100 years.

“Our members have had a long-standing dream of restoring a one-seat ride from the Midwest to Florida, and we’re thrilled that a new generation of American passengers will be able to experience this service for themselves,” said Jim Mathews, President & CEO of the Rail Passengers Association. “This move will free up badly needed equipment while taking pressure off Northeast Corridor infrastructure during the renovation of the ERT Project. Rail Passengers applauds Amtrak for this innovative solution to keeping passengers moving during critical state of good repair work. We believe riders will flock to this new service.”

The Floridian (Trains 40 & 41) will operate on a similar schedule and make the current stops of the Capitol Limited (Trains 29 & 30) between Chicago and Washington, D.C., and the Silver Star (Trains 91 & 92) between Miami and Washington, D.C. The Silver Meteor (Trains 97 & 98) continues to operate daily between New York and Miami.

Thanks, Penny!

Are coach passengers allowed in the diner on the Silvers ?

See the above info. According to that, apparently a "limited number" will be. Not sure how that works as it's been a few years since I've traveled on Amtrak.


Having traveled between ATL or Anniston and New Orleans many times years ago, which is a full day trip in both directions but no overnight, enjoying a full meal in the Crescent's dining car was an enjoyable part of the experience.

I think dining car meals should be an available option for all passengers, at menu prices for coach passengers (and of course included in the sleeper fares).

Cutting the full dining service (and letting those expensive new kitchens go unused) was my biggest beef with the Amtrak "death by a thousand cuts" policies. I've whined about it many times, LOL. I'm glad the dining cars are coming back.

 

[west point]

I think dining car meals should be an available option for all passengers, at menu prices for coach passengers (and of course included in the sleeper fares).

Cutting the full dining service (and letting those expensive new kitchens go unused) was my biggest beef with the Amtrak "death by a thousand cuts" policies. I've whined about it many times, LOL. I'm glad the dining cars are coming back.

Coach passengers should be able to prepay for meals when buying transportation. Meals non refundable. Left over sleeper meals not used should also be sold to coach passengers probably last serving of each meal.

 

[Cal]

My theory is that this will be a temporary thing until they can sort out the equipment issues, and then possibly getting the actual Floridian running via Atlanta. After that, the Cap and Star will come back. Either way, this is very interesting to see from my perspective, as Amtrak hasn't added a new LD train since I've been alive, even if it really is just combining two existing ones.

Amtrak said it was temporary anywya.

 

[zephyr17]

See the above info. According to that, apparently a "limited number" will be. Not sure how that works as it's been a few years since I've traveled on Amtrak.

The last couple years, they seem to take as many coach pax that want to eat in the diner. On trains I've ridden, mostly Builder and Starlight, when they first opened it up to coach passengers after COVID, they seemed to have limits, not so much now. Also, a lot of sleeping car passengers are eating their rooms now, opening up space in the diner.

As always, coach gets last crack at reservations. Reservations seem to be handled like they've always been, sleepers first, then coach. Lounge car last.

 

[Cal]

I agree with you, I think this move will be successful. More capacity.

Doesn't this train actually have less capacity than the former CL due to the switch from superliners to viewliners?

 

[Cal]

The last couple years, they seem to take as many coach pax that want to eat in the diner. On trains I've ridden, mostly Builder and Starlight, when they first opened it up to coach passengers after COVID, they seemed to have limits, not so much now. Also, a lot of sleeping car passengers are eating their rooms now, opening up space in the diner.

As always, coach gets last crack at reservations. Reservations seem to be handled like they've always been, sleepers first, then coach. Lounge car last.

I thought one of the provisions for traditional dingin in the east was no coach passengers dining?

 

[zephyr17]

Doesn't this train actually have less capacity than the former CL due to the switch from superliners to viewliners?

As far as sleeper space goes, yeah. The Cap had two Superliner sleepers. Not sure if they had a transdorm.

So: Two Superliners:
10 Bedrooms
24 Revenue Roomettes (without a transdorm there would have to be a least 4 roomettes for the crew 2 SCAs, diner/lounge LSA, coach attendant).
2 Accessible Bedrooms
2 Family Rooms

Two Viewliners:
4 Bedrooms
about 13 Revenue Roomettes (10 available out of 12 in each car minus roomettes for Lounge LSA, Dining car staff of 4, 2 coach attendants. SCAs have separate non-rev roomettes. I may be wrong about whether 11 and 12 in each car which are normally unused and used for storage, can be used by Amtrak OBS rather than supplies and excess luggage, so there might be a couple more available).
2 Accessible Rooms
0 Family rooms.

I thought one of the provisions for traditional dingin in the east was no coach passengers dining?

No, that is Flex. Traditional was opened to coach on the Silvers (now a Silver and a Floridian), the only Eastern trains that had it.

 

[zephyr17]

Why have I wanted to start calling the Floridian "Florida Man"?

 

[jis]

And where is the Star refueled? Certainly, will not refuel at the platform in WASH.

JAX. If needed can be topped up at RVR possibly.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Sleeping on a single level train for two nights. This will be interesting.

 

[PatchesC]

Sleeping on a single level train for two nights. This will be interesting.

At least there's more head room in the sleepers. Superliners seem pretty tight on the top bunks.

 

[Palmland]

Today’s ’Trains’ Newswire had this:
“Amtrak spokeswoman Kimberly Woods says the new Floridian will be assigned four Amfleet II coaches and continue with only two Viewliner sleeping cars, as the New York-Miami Silver Star now has. This will result in a significant decrease in bedroom capacity on the Chicago-Washington, D.C. portion of the route — from 10 to 4 bedrooms on each train, since each of the two Superliners that currently operate on the Capitol Limited has 5 bedrooms and each Viewliner has 2.”

Also slight decrease in roomettes. Will offer guaranteed connection to NY in Washington. I’m surprised at the 4 coaches but a third sleeper is certainly needed.

 

[jiml]

Sleeping on a single level train for two nights. This will be interesting.

How so? Lots of precedent, including when the Silvers had run-through sleepers from either the Broadway or Capitol Limiteds and briefly the Montrealer.