OK Amtrak Apologists

[R30A]

I think this thread is a prime example of railfan bickering.

There are three elements at play here-

1- The people complaining that Amtrak did not plan ahead for a forseeable event who are going on about Amtrak's ineptness.

2- The people complaining about the prior group, pointing out that Amtrak cannot forsee everything and might not have the capacity to deal with the event.

3- Amtrak, which despite the claims and statements of the prior two groups, substantially expanded capacity in preparation for the event which is occurring.

Why does everyone ignore element 3? Everyone seems to be ignoring the mentions of this made here. There were two single level sets running prior to racing season.(which is when the second set usually comes IINM) There have been trains nearly twice as long as normal spotted and photographed last weekend. I understand if we don't pick up on everything Amtrak does which is worthy of commendation, but can we at least complain about the things Amtrak actually is missing out on? I am sure other people understand my frustration here. When Amtrak hits a home run, we complain about them dropping the ball.

 

[Trogdor]

I think this thread is a prime example of railfan bickering.

There are three elements at play here-

1- The people complaining that Amtrak did not plan ahead for a forseeable event who are going on about Amtrak's ineptness.

2- The people complaining about the prior group, pointing out that Amtrak cannot forsee everything and might not have the capacity to deal with the event.

3- Amtrak, which despite the claims and statements of the prior two groups, substantially expanded capacity in preparation for the event which is occurring.

Why does everyone ignore element 3? Everyone seems to be ignoring the mentions of this made here. There were two single level sets running prior to racing season.(which is when the second set usually comes IINM) There have been trains nearly twice as long as normal spotted and photographed last weekend. I understand if we don't pick up on everything Amtrak does which is worthy of commendation, but can we at least complain about the things Amtrak actually is missing out on? I am sure other people understand my frustration here. When Amtrak hits a home run, we complain about them dropping the ball.

Exactly. This whole thread is based on one train's worth of experience. It's not like everybody going to Comic Con rode train 790 on Thursday. The OP happened to catch one of the two limited-capacity trainsets in operation on the route. This is because one of the normal sets was broken up to add capacity to the other trains. I mentioned this several pages back.

 

[guest in the west]

I think this thread is a prime example of railfan bickering.

There are three elements at play here-

1- The people complaining that Amtrak did not plan ahead for a forseeable event who are going on about Amtrak's ineptness.

2- The people complaining about the prior group, pointing out that Amtrak cannot forsee everything and might not have the capacity to deal with the event.

3- Amtrak, which despite the claims and statements of the prior two groups, substantially expanded capacity in preparation for the event which is occurring.

Why does everyone ignore element 3? Everyone seems to be ignoring the mentions of this made here. There were two single level sets running prior to racing season.(which is when the second set usually comes IINM) There have been trains nearly twice as long as normal spotted and photographed last weekend. I understand if we don't pick up on everything Amtrak does which is worthy of commendation, but can we at least complain about the things Amtrak actually is missing out on? I am sure other people understand my frustration here. When Amtrak hits a home run, we complain about them dropping the ball.

Exactly. This whole thread is based on one train's worth of experience. It's not like everybody going to Comic Con rode train 790 on Thursday. The OP happened to catch one of the two limited-capacity trainsets in operation on the route. This is because one of the normal sets was broken up to add capacity to the other trains. I mentioned this several pages back.

Actually, the problem happened on quite a few other Surfliners as well, and has been reported in this thread.

But your comment unwittingly proves my point: why should an Amtrak experience, good or bad, vary so much from train to train? It's the consistency of service that is sorely missing from Amtrak, and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

 

[the_traveler]

1342542509[/url]' post='380801']and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

For one thing most of those same cars that you were riding regularly 36 years ago were brand new - and are still in use today!

 

[guest--on the Pacific]

1342542509[/url]' post='380801']and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

For one thing most of those same cars that you were riding regularly 36 years ago were brand new - and are still in use today!

I would hope that someone obviously as knowledgeable about Amtrak as you are would be more cautious with broad generalizations when they don't apply to a thread.

On the Surfliner nee San Diegan line, where I have been riding for 36 years, the equipment has undergone two upgrades over the years, and in almost all cases today is very fine equipment. Perhaps your comment about old cars is true for some or most other lines, but please, address my point about service and personnel consistency, and not divert into equipment issues, if you wish to take issue with my points about Amtrak inconsistencies in service standards as a major cause of customer dissatisfaction.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

For one thing most of those same cars that you were riding regularly 36 years ago were brand new - and are still in use today!

I would hope that someone obviously as knowledgeable about Amtrak as you are would be more cautious with broad generalizations when they don't apply to a thread.

On the Surfliner nee San Diegan line, where I have been riding for 36 years, the equipment has undergone two upgrades over the years, and in almost all cases today is very fine equipment. Perhaps your comment about old cars is true for some or most other lines, but please, address my point about service and personnel consistency, and not divert into equipment issues, if you wish to take issue with my points about Amtrak inconsistencies in service standards as a major cause of customer dissatisfaction.

No. No. No. This thread was started because 2 of the 9 Pacific Surfliner consists are using single level equipment right now, which is a problem, because they are OLD AND LESS COMFORTABLE. I think his response is quite fair. That equipment has been around for 3 decades.

 

[Guest in the East]

1342542509[/url]' post='380801']and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

For one thing most of those same cars that you were riding regularly 36 years ago were brand new - and are still in use today!

I would hope that someone obviously as knowledgeable about Amtrak as you are would be more cautious with broad generalizations when they don't apply to a thread.

On the Surfliner nee San Diegan line, where I have been riding for 36 years, the equipment has undergone two upgrades over the years, and in almost all cases today is very fine equipment. Perhaps your comment about old cars is true for some or most other lines, but please, address my point about service and personnel consistency, and not divert into equipment issues, if you wish to take issue with my points about Amtrak inconsistencies in service standards as a major cause of customer dissatisfaction.

Here's the best part of the original post:

>>Another self-inflicted wound by Amtrak on Amtrak, which can never gets it act together<<

All else is pointless discussion, once that mindset is established.

 

[guest--on the Pacific]

and IMHO, is in some cases worse than when I first began riding regularly 36 years ago.

For one thing most of those same cars that you were riding regularly 36 years ago were brand new - and are still in use today!

I would hope that someone obviously as knowledgeable about Amtrak as you are would be more cautious with broad generalizations when they don't apply to a thread.

On the Surfliner nee San Diegan line, where I have been riding for 36 years, the equipment has undergone two upgrades over the years, and in almost all cases today is very fine equipment. Perhaps your comment about old cars is true for some or most other lines, but please, address my point about service and personnel consistency, and not divert into equipment issues, if you wish to take issue with my points about Amtrak inconsistencies in service standards as a major cause of customer dissatisfaction.

No. No. No. This thread was started because 2 of the 9 Pacific Surfliner consists are using single level equipment right now, which is a problem, because they are OLD AND LESS COMFORTABLE. I think his response is quite fair. That equipment has been around for 3 decades.

Sorry but as the person who started this thread and who has answered many questions from Amtrak supporters (see dialogue with Ryan) the main issue is not equipment but the inconsistency in service. Specifically as to the single level vs two level cars, as someone who has been riding the line for 36 years, I can tell you that there are many riders who find the actual seats on the single level cars more comfortable than the Surfliner seats. (For the same reason, that's why many riders who have BC tickets go into the older Superliner cars when they are part of the Surfliner consist. Myself, I find the seating largely a toss-up. It's a matter of preference, to be sure, but again I am uncomfortable with the grand generalizations that you easily assert.

 

[the_traveler]

Moderator's Note

I think some of what's been said in this thread had gotten off the original topic. (And yes I will include my own post above.) Let's please confine all future comments to the original post.

 

[hmy1]

I agree that the equipment matters in the OP's case, not necessarily because it's old and less comfortable (which is true), but because:

1. It has less capacity, resulting in excessive standing room only conditions on the OP's train

2. It has narrower doors with steps that had to be opened manually, increasing loading/unloading times

3. The situation was exacerbated with just two staff members to open doors at each stop

A standard Surfliner trainset has automatically opening doors, so loading/unloading times would not be affected as much when the train is understaffed; Amtrak would just lose revenue if the conductors are unable to collect tickets from everybody due to the excessive SRO conditions. Regardless, the experience just sounds miserable for a 2 1/2 hour trip.

Based on the previous posts, sounds like Amtrak California tried to remedy the situation by sending the Del Mar trainsets out, but I guess there wasn't much they could do with the two single-level trains. Its good to have such high demand but bad to not be able to meet it in a positive way.

I like the idea of Metrolink sending an extra train or two all the way down to SAN if it can be possible, since a lot of the affected passengers probably boarded somewhere in LA or OC. They already tried that last year with the Del Mar race track, maybe it could be possible for Comic-con? Perhaps run them "express" through SD county to force the SD residents to take the Coaster? The only issue is that the Del Mar Metrolink trains ran on weekends only whereas Comic-con does covers Wednesday evening, Thursday, and Friday as well.

Or, maybe tack on some extra Metrolink cars to the existing Surfliner runs (south-bound in the morning and north-bound in the evening). This would eliminate scheduling issues with adding extra runs but brings up a host of other issues regarding mixing incompatible equipment. Just brainstorming...

 

[johnny.menhennet]

I agree that the equipment matters in the OP's case, not necessarily because it's old and less comfortable (which is true), but because:

1. It has less capacity, resulting in excessive standing room only conditions on the OP's train

2. It has narrower doors with steps that had to be opened manually, increasing loading/unloading times

3. The situation was exacerbated with just two staff members to open doors at each stop

A standard Surfliner trainset has automatically opening doors, so loading/unloading times would not be affected as much when the train is understaffed; Amtrak would just lose revenue if the conductors are unable to collect tickets from everybody due to the excessive SRO conditions. Regardless, the experience just sounds miserable for a 2 1/2 hour trip.

Based on the previous posts, sounds like Amtrak California tried to remedy the situation by sending the Del Mar trainsets out, but I guess there wasn't much they could do with the two single-level trains. Its good to have such high demand but bad to not be able to meet it in a positive way.

I like the idea of Metrolink sending an extra train or two all the way down to SAN if it can be possible, since a lot of the affected passengers probably boarded somewhere in LA or OC. They already tried that last year with the Del Mar race track, maybe it could be possible for Comic-con? Perhaps run them "express" through SD county to force the SD residents to take the Coaster? The only issue is that the Del Mar Metrolink trains ran on weekends only whereas Comic-con does covers Wednesday evening, Thursday, and Friday as well.

Or, maybe tack on some extra Metrolink cars to the existing Surfliner runs (south-bound in the morning and north-bound in the evening). This would eliminate scheduling issues with adding extra runs but brings up a host of other issues regarding mixing incompatible equipment. Just brainstorming...

I am ok with most of your ideas. The only problem with the last one though is that it is physically impossible to attach the Metrolink and Surfliner cars. Both the Bombardier and the new Rotem cars connect via the "middle" level and the Pacifc Surfliner does not have this. If you wanted to throw them on and not grant those pax access to the cafe and other cars, then you could, but I don't think many people would be too happy with that.

 

[Trogdor]

I am ok with most of your ideas. The only problem with the last one though is that it is physically impossible to attach the Metrolink and Surfliner cars. Both the Bombardier and the new Rotem cars connect via the "middle" level and the Pacifc Surfliner does not have this. If you wanted to throw them on and not grant those pax access to the cafe and other cars, then you could, but I don't think many people would be too happy with that.

More than just ability to access other cars in the train, depending on the type of diaphragm on the Metrolink cars, it may actually be prohibited by Amtrak rules. High-level and single-level cars can't run together unless there is a transition car or a buffer car (such as a baggage car or some other specially-equipped single-level car) in between them. Otherwise, the ends of the cars could be damaged.

Also, I'm not sure whether Metrolink even has any extra equipment. They've expanded service quite a bit in the past year, and they've also retired all of the ex-NJT cars that they were running, so they may not necessarily have the cars to spare.

One of the recurring themes in this thread is "why can't they just add....." but folks really don't realize that the fleet really is stretched thin. It's the middle of summer, so consists are running their maximum lengths right now throughout the country. It's also not like Thanksgiving, which is a peak in the middle of an otherwise slow period of travel, where lots of equipment can be cycled through for maintenance before the rush, then have everything in service (deferring non-mandatory maintenance for a couple of weeks), then recover by pulling extra cars out for that deferred maintenance. In the summer, you don't have the luxury of a low period to recover from oversubscribing the equipment for a few days. And, as others have pointed out, it's not just a "few days." The extra equipment that was running last weekend (hence the second single-level set) is going to be running for the rest of the summer due to Del Mar. There really is no other equipment available.

A poster earlier noted riding past LA yard and seeing "spare" equipment that could have been in service. However, just because a car is sitting in a yard doesn't mean it's available for service. It could be down for mandatory maintenance. It could have bad-ordered equipment that's being worked on (you don't want to be in a crowded coach with broken air conditioning or a clogged/overflowing toilet drain in the middle of the summer). There are many dozens of reasons why a car sitting in the yard isn't ready to go out into service.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Okay, let me say up front that I have not read the the comments since the first post. I'll go through them later.

I was in San Diego last week, because my significant other went to Comic-Con. I took 774 down from LA on Wednesday (the day before Comic-Con started). The line to board the train stretched all the way from the line up point across the waiting room to the far entrance 15 minutes before boarding started.

The conductors announced well before departure that due to Comic-Con, they expected the train to be extremely crowded, and to please move luggage out of seats and aisles or they'd check it for you. I did not observe any standing passengers, but almost every seat was taken. My significant other and myself were only able to sit together by asking someone to move across the aisle.

I thought Amtrak handled the crowds pretty well, considering.

On Monday morning, when I flew out of San Diego International Airport, it took me 35 minutes of standing in line just to print out a boarding pass (I wasn't checking luggage). The security line for the Southwest concourse stretched out the wing of that terminal, down the corridor to the next terminal, looped back around 180 degrees and continued all the way back to the Southwest terminal, then went outside the airport and continued down the sidewalk, out of sight.

I waited in the security line for almost an hour and didn't even get close to the checkpoint. About 30 minutes before my flight was to depart, airline representatives came through and pulled everyone out for my flight (they'd done that for the 7:55 flight as well) and put us in the Business Elite lane. I made it to the gate a little over 10 minutes before they closed the boarding door. The flight was full, and I know it was overbooked and they turned some people away.

I don't know if the airlines added any flights, but I doubt it. Since Southwest flies a uniform fleet of 737s, they probably couldn't add bigger planes, either.

The truth is that Comic-Con takes over San Diego. Takes over.

Let's look at some perspective:

Normally, the San Diego Trolley (light rail) transports about 91,000 trips on a weekday. That's probably representative of about 45,500 people (since most people take 2 trips a day). Comic-Con brought 140,000 people to San Diego, and a large majority of them took the Trolley. This basically means that the rider base of the San Diego Trolley triples for one week each July.

Now, admirably, the MTS added Trolley service. All trains were lengthened to run as 3 cars long. The Green Line was extended into Downtown. The Special Events Line was run (though it was signed as Green, but some trains still terminated at Qualcomm).

Despite that, every inbound train I saw in the morning and every outbound train I saw in the evening was packed to capacity. Worse that the Orange Line in Washington. Completely packed.

I'd hazard that even if MTS had doubled the service that they provided (beyond whatever increase they did give), the trains would still have been crowded.

If Amtrak had added additional trains, they would have been just as packed, because more departures in the schedule would have made the trains more attractive to attendees.

Comic-Con increases the population of San Diego by 10% (and that's just counting the attendees, not the people like me who just tag along). It is impossible to really account for that madness.

I'm sorry you experienced crowded conditions. That's simply part of the Comic-Con experience. My significant other tells me that the Convention Center could barely have held another person. It was bursting at the seams. If you want to blame someone for the crowding, blame Comic-Con. They sell way more tickets than they have room for. And I'm pretty sure they use the proceeds to send the San Diego Fire Marshal on an all-expenses-paid vacation to Tahiti just to be sure.

 

[trainfan969]

I agree that the equipment matters in the OP's case, not necessarily because it's old and less comfortable (which is true), but because:

1. It has less capacity, resulting in excessive standing room only conditions on the OP's train

2. It has narrower doors with steps that had to be opened manually, increasing loading/unloading times

3. The situation was exacerbated with just two staff members to open doors at each stop

A standard Surfliner trainset has automatically opening doors, so loading/unloading times would not be affected as much when the train is understaffed; Amtrak would just lose revenue if the conductors are unable to collect tickets from everybody due to the excessive SRO conditions. Regardless, the experience just sounds miserable for a 2 1/2 hour trip.

Based on the previous posts, sounds like Amtrak California tried to remedy the situation by sending the Del Mar trainsets out, but I guess there wasn't much they could do with the two single-level trains. Its good to have such high demand but bad to not be able to meet it in a positive way.

I like the idea of Metrolink sending an extra train or two all the way down to SAN if it can be possible, since a lot of the affected passengers probably boarded somewhere in LA or OC. They already tried that last year with the Del Mar race track, maybe it could be possible for Comic-con? Perhaps run them "express" through SD county to force the SD residents to take the Coaster? The only issue is that the Del Mar Metrolink trains ran on weekends only whereas Comic-con does covers Wednesday evening, Thursday, and Friday as well.

Or, maybe tack on some extra Metrolink cars to the existing Surfliner runs (south-bound in the morning and north-bound in the evening). This would eliminate scheduling issues with adding extra runs but brings up a host of other issues regarding mixing incompatible equipment. Just brainstorming...

Since Metrolink is primarily a commuter rail, they are going to need all the equipment they have during the work week. However if there was a crunch during the weekend, Amtrak could have coordinated with Metrolink and rented a trainset or two.

Another issue with a through train is 2 fold. First off, Metrolink cannot operate past a certain point as the crews are not trained for them. For Metrolink to get to Del Mar, they stop at Oceanside and another crew takes over and takes the train south to Del Mar. The other is coordination with the Coaster. If Coaster does not expand its service, it would be less than ideal.

 

[trainfan969]

I am ok with most of your ideas. The only problem with the last one though is that it is physically impossible to attach the Metrolink and Surfliner cars. Both the Bombardier and the new Rotem cars connect via the "middle" level and the Pacifc Surfliner does not have this. If you wanted to throw them on and not grant those pax access to the cafe and other cars, then you could, but I don't think many people would be too happy with that.

More than just ability to access other cars in the train, depending on the type of diaphragm on the Metrolink cars, it may actually be prohibited by Amtrak rules. High-level and single-level cars can't run together unless there is a transition car or a buffer car (such as a baggage car or some other specially-equipped single-level car) in between them. Otherwise, the ends of the cars could be damaged.

Also, I'm not sure whether Metrolink even has any extra equipment. They've expanded service quite a bit in the past year, and they've also retired all of the ex-NJT cars that they were running, so they may not necessarily have the cars to spare.

One of the recurring themes in this thread is "why can't they just add....." but folks really don't realize that the fleet really is stretched thin. It's the middle of summer, so consists are running their maximum lengths right now throughout the country. It's also not like Thanksgiving, which is a peak in the middle of an otherwise slow period of travel, where lots of equipment can be cycled through for maintenance before the rush, then have everything in service (deferring non-mandatory maintenance for a couple of weeks), then recover by pulling extra cars out for that deferred maintenance. In the summer, you don't have the luxury of a low period to recover from oversubscribing the equipment for a few days. And, as others have pointed out, it's not just a "few days." The extra equipment that was running last weekend (hence the second single-level set) is going to be running for the rest of the summer due to Del Mar. There really is no other equipment available.

A poster earlier noted riding past LA yard and seeing "spare" equipment that could have been in service. However, just because a car is sitting in a yard doesn't mean it's available for service. It could be down for mandatory maintenance. It could have bad-ordered equipment that's being worked on (you don't want to be in a crowded coach with broken air conditioning or a clogged/overflowing toilet drain in the middle of the summer). There are many dozens of reasons why a car sitting in the yard isn't ready to go out into service.

That would be me. Literally all the equipment at the LA yard is there to be serviced for its next run or for maintenance. Under extreme circumstances have the workers borrowed or swapped equipment temporarily from the LD trains for the Surfliner sets (I recall a CCC and a Sightseer Lounge). Sometimes some trainsets have extra Superliner cars but again they are temporary since the fleet is stretched thin. In fact when the Anniversary train was in town, the loco and cabcar were used for a bit before it went to its next event.

As for Metrolink, I believe they have cars to spare but I doubt they have the motive power to spare.

 

[Trogdor]

On Monday morning, when I flew out of San Diego International Airport, it took me 35 minutes of standing in line just to print out a boarding pass (I wasn't checking luggage). The security line for the Southwest concourse stretched out the wing of that terminal, down the corridor to the next terminal, looped back around 180 degrees and continued all the way back to the Southwest terminal, then went outside the airport and continued down the sidewalk, out of sight.

I waited in the security line for almost an hour and didn't even get close to the checkpoint. About 30 minutes before my flight was to depart, airline representatives came through and pulled everyone out for my flight (they'd done that for the 7:55 flight as well) and put us in the Business Elite lane. I made it to the gate a little over 10 minutes before they closed the boarding door. The flight was full, and I know it was overbooked and they turned some people away.

And I'm sure all of those people will never fly again because of the experience they had going to Comic Con, right?

 

[trainfan969]

The conductors announced well before departure that due to Comic-Con, they expected the train to be extremely crowded, and to please move luggage out of seats and aisles or they'd check it for you. I did not observe any standing passengers, but almost every seat was taken. My significant other and myself were only able to sit together by asking someone to move across the aisle.

I'm sure someone will seize upon that statement and exclaim that Amtrak knew about ComicCon and did nothing about it. Well truth be told, there's been a conga line for evening departures to SAN from LAX since the summer began.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

To Trog,

On the issue of Metrolink not having cars, they do. They have lots and lots of extra cars, actually. Those cars: cab cars. Since replacing every trainset with a Rotem cab and possibly Rotem cars as well, there are not any Bombardier cabs left. Many of them are kept out at Moorpark and there is a string of 11 cars right outside LAUS, right at Mission Tower. I am not sure if these are cabs or not. For regular coaches though, Metrolink is in short supply. They are putting as many as possible on the consists now, so that where all used to be 3-5, they are now all 4-6. I do not know if the UTA Comets were returned to UTA or not, but I would think so.

Tracktwentynine,

You are right as well. Comic-Con is synonymous with San Diego for the weekend, they are one in the same. It does take it over. The business elite lane at San Diego is so nice as well. On time when my mom was needing to get to an important business meeting in San Francisco, she got to the airport an hour ahead, like we usually do, because that is almost always adequate at SAN. The security line was so long and the meeting so important that she called her boss and he bought her a ticket right then for Business Select and she whizzed right through, barely making it in before the flight. SAN gets pretty crazy, especially with Southwest. The Trolley is a wonderful service, truly a good system. I'm glad that it was constantly crowded, that's what the transit is for. I love the Trolley, and when it comes down to it, they provide an efficient service. The downside is that on a lot of those trains, there were a lot of people NOT paying.

 

[X]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the fact that Caltrans will get 42 more cars as part of the current Bi-Level equipment order.

As for the Amfleet doors, let me add some clarification:

The doors on an Amfleet car are electrically operated, and capable of train-line operation. That is, with the press of one button all the doors on one side of the car will open simultaneously, but there's a hitch... The cars were built for the high-level platforms of the North East, the bottom of the door is several feet above track level ('Watch that last step, it's a doozy!'). However they were built to allow low-level platform operation, the floor in front of the door is actually a trap door. Opening it reveals a set of steps leading down to the ground, so no problem, right? Wrong, the trap door is a heavy, spring assisted piece of stainless steel that can only be opened manually, by someone who knows what they're doing. And remember, the trap door is also the floor when closed, if left open there will be a gap between the bottom of the steps and the top of the closed side door!

 

[jdcnosse]

Well, first off, is Amtrak supposed to plan for this sort if thing? Should the organizers of the Comic-Con have reached out to coordinate with Caliornia and Amtrak to begin with?

I mean, for the annual parade my city holds every year, we have military equipment loaned as rides for the honored guests, but the city has to contact the military each year to identify the equipment needed. I would think that holds true for *any* event to coordiante support.

I agree with DesertRat. Thanksgiving is a federal holiday, so it only makes sense that they'd plan ahead. People always travel during that time, and always will. Comic-Con, although happening at roughly the same time every year, is a private event. I don't see the airlines adding extra airplanes for them, or San Diego's transit system offering more intercity busses (though I could be wrong).

To just assume Amtrak is going to up and change it's plans for such an event would be poor planning. Amtrak has no idea how many people would arrive directly in SAN vs LAX, and to change the trains to reserved only would still get some people upset (because they can't do what they've always done). Now maybe next year, Comic-Con will get an arraignment going, but until then, you can't really complain for Amtrak doing what they do every other day of the year just because you've had one bad experience.

 

[jdcnosse]

On Monday morning, when I flew out of San Diego International Airport, it took me 35 minutes of standing in line just to print out a boarding pass (I wasn't checking luggage). The security line for the Southwest concourse stretched out the wing of that terminal, down the corridor to the next terminal, looped back around 180 degrees and continued all the way back to the Southwest terminal, then went outside the airport and continued down the sidewalk, out of sight.

I waited in the security line for almost an hour and didn't even get close to the checkpoint. About 30 minutes before my flight was to depart, airline representatives came through and pulled everyone out for my flight (they'd done that for the 7:55 flight as well) and put us in the Business Elite lane. I made it to the gate a little over 10 minutes before they closed the boarding door. The flight was full, and I know it was overbooked and they turned some people away.

And I'm sure all of those people will never fly again because of the experience they had going to Comic Con, right?

 

[Anderson]

On Monday morning, when I flew out of San Diego International Airport, it took me 35 minutes of standing in line just to print out a boarding pass (I wasn't checking luggage). The security line for the Southwest concourse stretched out the wing of that terminal, down the corridor to the next terminal, looped back around 180 degrees and continued all the way back to the Southwest terminal, then went outside the airport and continued down the sidewalk, out of sight.

I waited in the security line for almost an hour and didn't even get close to the checkpoint. About 30 minutes before my flight was to depart, airline representatives came through and pulled everyone out for my flight (they'd done that for the 7:55 flight as well) and put us in the Business Elite lane. I made it to the gate a little over 10 minutes before they closed the boarding door. The flight was full, and I know it was overbooked and they turned some people away.

And I'm sure all of those people will never fly again because of the experience they had going to Comic Con, right?

Thanks for reminding me of the chaos at the Des Moines airport back in '04. I went out to watch the caucus and had not yet discovered the train (not to mention that I was in high school at the time; I was 16 on caucus day IIRC)...well, you can imagine what the airport looked like when the volunteers for all of the campaigns swamped the airport that morning. I got to see Al Franken get frustrated with the line, which was fun to watch and took the edge off the otherwise insane line.

 

[hmy1]

Thanksgiving is a federal holiday, so it only makes sense that they'd plan ahead. People always travel during that time, and always will. Comic-Con, although happening at roughly the same time every year, is a private event. I don't see the airlines adding extra airplanes for them, or San Diego's transit system offering more intercity busses (though I could be wrong).

To just assume Amtrak is going to up and change it's plans for such an event would be poor planning. Amtrak has no idea how many people would arrive directly in SAN vs LAX, and to change the trains to reserved only would still get some people upset (because they can't do what they've always done). Now maybe next year, Comic-Con will get an arraignment going, but until then, you can't really complain for Amtrak doing what they do every other day of the year just because you've had one bad experience.

San Diego MTS is probably the best when it comes to planning for special events. They add trolleys/buses/shuttles, extend hours, etc. for large events and Comic-con was no different. Even after adding as many cars as possible to each trolley and adding runs, many trolleys were SRO.

Amtrak doesn't have to change their plans to meet demand, but not doing so would be poor planning if they cared about attracting new customers. Well, repeat customers actually. It's not like Comic-con is new and people just started taking the train to it. Amtrak should have historical ridership data if they cared to review and act on them.

 

[hmy1]

Oh, and one last thing for the OP: Be sure to complain to Amtrak California. We can discuss this all we want here, but Amtrak California needs to hear about it. A conductor told me that a complaint from a customer carries more weight than feedback from their own staff. Write them for the benefit of future riders!