Pacific Parlour Car Permanently Retired February 2018

[Maverickstation]

Putting The Canadian aside, we took a trip this past August on The Ocean, and having the Park Car observation as a sleeping car perk is what made the trip. We actually had 2 domes on that trip, and wine tastings as well.

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[Anderson]

One relevant question to ask of those that feel slighted for not getting a lower priced ticket is - did the fares go up specifically when the PPC was added to the CS or the Dome BC was added to the Hoosier State. If they did then there may be an argument for a fare reduction. If not then there is no cogent argument at all.

I cannot speak directly to the addition of the PPC (I think I was like six or eight at the time) but in the case of the HS, I'm fairly certain that the answer is "yes", if only because:

(1) A Business Class option was added which did not exist previously* (so there was arguably a dedicated accommodation charge); and

(2) IIRC, PPR spiked by a fairly large amount in conjunction with that (I know it was pretty big...I want to say it was like 30-40% but I'd need to look at some of the relevant reports; it might have been a 40% bump in revenue alongside a bump in ridership).

Whether that bump fully offset the addition of meal service, I cannot say, but from what I have heard the per-passenger loss did decrease under Iowa Pacific.

Now, back to the addition of the PPC: Even if there wasn't an immediate hike, I think there is a question as to whether or not a premium did become attached to the train due to having the PPC...and that's a question I can't "cleanly" answer, but comparing PPR on the CS to some of the other trains it appears that the train did command a premium for some reason or another.

*Ok, Amtrak shoved something together for a few weeks in the run-up to IP taking over; TBH I'm inclined to ignore this since I think any BC pricing at that time would have been arranged in a big hurry as a purely reactionary move.

 

[rtabern]

You cant possibly be serious.

Amtrak doesnt have the money to give back. Every dollar they take in is needed to support current operations.

They should charge as much as the market will bear for tickets, which is what theyre doing.

Theyre a business, not a charity, and the tens of people that care about this arent going to make a bit of different to the bottom line.

About the only things I agree with you on is Amtrak is not a charity and they can use every dollar taken in. Lol... the same generic statement is true for any business... or heck any person or family... for that matter. Right?
My point was Amtrak cant keep making cuts and expecting people to pay the same or even more for worse service and stay in business.

Sure maybe people will still ride with worse meals on eastern overnight trains... no Parlour Cars... no newspapers... no coffee after 11am... less choices of juices... no amenity kits... no champagne... no wine and cheese tastings... no flowers in the dining car... no china in the dining car... no souveniers sold on board anymore... no movies in the lounge cars... cuts to Trails and Rails... harder to earn and redeem Guest Rewards... on and on.

Just like in life... sometimes too much small stuff can build up and lead to big stuff.

Eventually enough small cuts will happen... if they havent already... that taking the train will lose its MAGIC ... as Amtrak said in the 80s... and people with limited vacation time will begin to question... if Im going Chicago to LA or SF... is it worth it to spend three vacation days and take train or take four hours and just fly.

Personally we have reached our breaking point with all the small cuts and BS. We rode for the PPCs and the Dome. And maybe if the train was actually the best and quickest way to get somewhere... which is really a rare exception... maybe the NEC and to get to a remote spot like La Plata MO with no good roads.

The point being... You cant charge the same or more for worse service. And cutting a first class lounge is the loss of a MAJOR perk for sleeper customers on 11 and 14.

But hey if you want to pay more for no first class lounge... go right ahead. Its America and its your free will to do whatever you want with your money.

I am pretty sure our trip Feb 3 will mark the PPCs last run in additio to probably the last time we ride the Coast Starlight. If I want to get from Seattle to LA I will fly and get there in two hours vs two days. If I want scenery Ill take Highway 1.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I’ve been on 11/14 twice now & will be again in March. The PPC was not a MAJOR perk for me. And based on my limited experience, it did not seem to be a MAJOR perk for others.

I suspect the # of people who book the CS sleepers just because of the PPC is small compared to the total # of sleeper pax.

I ride LD trains to see the country, not for tablecloths & flowers in the diner, wine & cheese, etc. I ride sleepers for the beds since I’m a side sleeper which makes it hard to sleep in coach more than one night.

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[tricia]

You cant possibly be serious.

Amtrak doesnt have the money to give back. Every dollar they take in is needed to support current operations.

They should charge as much as the market will bear for tickets, which is what theyre doing.

Theyre a business, not a charity, and the tens of people that care about this arent going to make a bit of different to the bottom line.

About the only things I agree with you on is Amtrak is not a charity and they can use every dollar taken in. Lol... the same generic statement is true for any business... or heck any person or family... for that matter. Right?
My point was Amtrak cant keep making cuts and expecting people to pay the same or even more for worse service and stay in business.

Sure maybe people will still ride with worse meals on eastern overnight trains... no Parlour Cars... no newspapers... no coffee after 11am... less choices of juices... no amenity kits... no champagne... no wine and cheese tastings... no flowers in the dining car... no china in the dining car... no souveniers sold on board anymore... no movies in the lounge cars... cuts to Trails and Rails... harder to earn and redeem Guest Rewards... on and on.

Just like in life... sometimes too much small stuff can build up and lead to big stuff.

Eventually enough small cuts will happen... if they havent already... that taking the train will lose its MAGIC ... as Amtrak said in the 80s... and people with limited vacation time will begin to question... if Im going Chicago to LA or SF... is it worth it to spend three vacation days and take train or take four hours and just fly.

Loss of amenities makes a toxic combination with Amtrak's inconsistent service. Staff who try to make customers' trips pleasant and comfortable can make almost any trip memorably enjoyable, whatever the level of amenity. On the other hand, surly employees who apparently view customers as an inconvenience can make lack of amenities really rankle.

Like many on this forum, I've experienced a wide range of customer service on Amtrak, from truly excellent to downright nasty. The loss of amenities in recent years makes it more difficult for good staff to do their jobs well, and leaves less and less for customers to enjoy when dealing with bad staff.

 

[Thirdrail7]

About the only things I agree with you on is Amtrak is not a charity and they can use every dollar taken in. Lol... the same generic statement is true for any business... or heck any person or family... for that matter. Right?
My point was Amtrak cant keep making cuts and expecting people to pay the same or even more for worse service and stay in business.

Sure maybe people will still ride with worse meals on eastern overnight trains... no Parlour Cars... no newspapers... no coffee after 11am... less choices of juices... no amenity kits... no champagne... no wine and cheese tastings... no flowers in the dining car... no china in the dining car... no souveniers sold on board anymore... no movies in the lounge cars... cuts to Trails and Rails... harder to earn and redeem Guest Rewards... on and on.

Just like in life... sometimes too much small stuff can build up and lead to big stuff.

Eventually enough small cuts will happen... if they havent already... that taking the train will lose its MAGIC ... as Amtrak said in the 80s... and people with limited vacation time will begin to question... if Im going Chicago to LA or SF... is it worth it to spend three vacation days and take train or take four hours and just fly.

Loss of amenities makes a toxic combination with Amtrak's inconsistent service. Staff who try to make customers' trips pleasant and comfortable can make almost any trip memorably enjoyable, whatever the level of amenity. On the other hand, surly employees who apparently view customers as an inconvenience can make lack of amenities really rankle.

Like many on this forum, I've experienced a wide range of customer service on Amtrak, from truly excellent to downright nasty. The loss of amenities in recent years makes it more difficult for good staff to do their jobs well, and leaves less and less for customers to enjoy when dealing with bad staff.

We're in agreement and it is funny Tricia because I brought you up earlier in the thread:

There's a lot to tackle in this thread so we'll take it in no particular order.

R

That being said, I think we are seeing the previous discussed concepts from the Greenville, SC (GRV) to be Unstaffed Effective June 15, 2017. Notably:

One of the easiest targets is labor. How much are you getting for the labor that you are providing? While I agree that some of these cuts will definitely impact ridership, the people making these decisions are looking at it from a cost center point of view. Period. It is easy for them since they are not actually passengers. Additionally, you'll find that most rail providers aren't top heavy with actual railroaders. They are top heavy with employees with financial backgrounds, focused on the bottom line. That doesn't necessarily make them bad railroaders but it does mean they may not understand "the product." During the last years of the Boardman tenure, you saw an influx of airline employees moving into key positions. They still think like airline employees and it shows. They were also fixated on the short to medium distance passengers and a lot of the policies show it. However, they were given a mandate:" this is the money you have...work with it and see how we can survive. " As such, they may not even be interested in what the product "was" or "could be" and may go with "this is all it is going to be or we'll run out of money."

The vision lurches from year to year based upon the funds granted. That is no way to run a railroad.

Unfortunately, the long distance traveler may be the victim when it comes time to the budget. Rtabern's letter spells it out in spades. What is the cost? What "provable" revenue does it generate? I don't know why these cars need so much maintenance but assuming it isn't a ploy, would we rather spend money on these cars or the engines that pull them?

Personally, I think it is a mistake to whittle away at the amenities. This was done before and it didn't work out. Trains don't have an advantage of speed like a plane nor do they have the cost structure of a bus. So, what exactly is Amtrak bringing to the table? It should be something memorable to justify the costs. It should be something to bring you back. It should be something to make you say "do you remember that time?" Otherwise, what is the point? If you wanted to ride a bus on steel wheels, then you might as well ride an actual bus.

Maybe Tricia is right! As Amtrak continues to cut station personnel, maybe they should mothball the new baggage cars as well. How much revenue are they generating?

I think I will continue the rest of my rant in the CEO thread.

The only thing I would ask is who besides Rtabern has written? Tricia, they are in the process of eliminating yet another staffed station.(as soon as it is public, we'll put it up.) That's another kick to the traveler yet they keep doing these things because for some reason, ridership keeps going up. In their minds, corridor traffic (short and intermediate) is the market to chase and what do they care about PPCs, luggage, hell even food! LD riders are the minority! They must be! We keep cutting and they aren't bleeding!

If you are truly interested, kick them in the CSI scores. Write in! Tell them what you need and equally important, tell them what you WANT. Tell them what you EXPECT.

Otherwise, the next cuts will come....it is just a matter of time.

 

[neroden]

They bled money on the Auto Train when they cut services thoughtlessly. In a very blatant fashion. If they can't read the financials from that... well, is it actually possible to get through heads that thick?

 

[OBS]

It is,sadly, becoming a race to the bottom....

 

[Bob Dylan]

It is,sadly, becoming a race to the bottom....

Agreed! Perhaps the Beancounters will kill all the Amenities aboard Trains and then rebrand Amtrak as Ryan Rail.

 

[sechs]

If you try to book a Starlight ticket, it now shows a service alert, and guess what the alert says:

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Amtrak will retire the renowned Pacific Parlour Car from the Coast Starlight. The last day of service will be February 2 on Train 14 and February 4 on Train 11. Retiring the Parlour Car is part of Amtrak's ongoing work to modernize its fleet of equipment.

Due to high demand, an additional Parlour Car trip has been added on Wednesday, January 31 leaving Los Angeles and Friday, February 2 leaving Seattle.

The Parlour Car will continue to operate on Thursdays and Fridays departing Los Angeles and Saturdays and Sundays departing Seattle through February 4.

The Coast Starlight will continue to provide daily service from Seattle to Los Angeles. Amtrak is reviewing what amenities offered in the Parlour Car will be available in the future. Customers can continue to enjoy the trip and spectacular views from other areas of the train, including the Dining and Sightseer Lounge cars.

We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience. For reservation and train status information check Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps, speak with station personnel or call 800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

So that seems pretty darn official.

I bet if they keep adding dates with the PPC, demand will remain high

 

[tricia]

About the only things I agree with you on is Amtrak is not a charity and they can use every dollar taken in. Lol... the same generic statement is true for any business... or heck any person or family... for that matter. Right?
My point was Amtrak cant keep making cuts and expecting people to pay the same or even more for worse service and stay in business.

Sure maybe people will still ride with worse meals on eastern overnight trains... no Parlour Cars... no newspapers... no coffee after 11am... less choices of juices... no amenity kits... no champagne... no wine and cheese tastings... no flowers in the dining car... no china in the dining car... no souveniers sold on board anymore... no movies in the lounge cars... cuts to Trails and Rails... harder to earn and redeem Guest Rewards... on and on.

Just like in life... sometimes too much small stuff can build up and lead to big stuff.

Eventually enough small cuts will happen... if they havent already... that taking the train will lose its MAGIC ... as Amtrak said in the 80s... and people with limited vacation time will begin to question... if Im going Chicago to LA or SF... is it worth it to spend three vacation days and take train or take four hours and just fly.

Loss of amenities makes a toxic combination with Amtrak's inconsistent service. Staff who try to make customers' trips pleasant and comfortable can make almost any trip memorably enjoyable, whatever the level of amenity. On the other hand, surly employees who apparently view customers as an inconvenience can make lack of amenities really rankle.

Like many on this forum, I've experienced a wide range of customer service on Amtrak, from truly excellent to downright nasty. The loss of amenities in recent years makes it more difficult for good staff to do their jobs well, and leaves less and less for customers to enjoy when dealing with bad staff.

We're in agreement and it is funny Tricia because I brought you up earlier in the thread:

There's a lot to tackle in this thread so we'll take it in no particular order.

R

That being said, I think we are seeing the previous discussed concepts from the Greenville, SC (GRV) to be Unstaffed Effective June 15, 2017. Notably:

One of the easiest targets is labor. How much are you getting for the labor that you are providing? While I agree that some of these cuts will definitely impact ridership, the people making these decisions are looking at it from a cost center point of view. Period. It is easy for them since they are not actually passengers. Additionally, you'll find that most rail providers aren't top heavy with actual railroaders. They are top heavy with employees with financial backgrounds, focused on the bottom line. That doesn't necessarily make them bad railroaders but it does mean they may not understand "the product." During the last years of the Boardman tenure, you saw an influx of airline employees moving into key positions. They still think like airline employees and it shows. They were also fixated on the short to medium distance passengers and a lot of the policies show it. However, they were given a mandate:" this is the money you have...work with it and see how we can survive. " As such, they may not even be interested in what the product "was" or "could be" and may go with "this is all it is going to be or we'll run out of money."

The vision lurches from year to year based upon the funds granted. That is no way to run a railroad.

Unfortunately, the long distance traveler may be the victim when it comes time to the budget. Rtabern's letter spells it out in spades. What is the cost? What "provable" revenue does it generate? I don't know why these cars need so much maintenance but assuming it isn't a ploy, would we rather spend money on these cars or the engines that pull them?

Personally, I think it is a mistake to whittle away at the amenities. This was done before and it didn't work out. Trains don't have an advantage of speed like a plane nor do they have the cost structure of a bus. So, what exactly is Amtrak bringing to the table? It should be something memorable to justify the costs. It should be something to bring you back. It should be something to make you say "do you remember that time?" Otherwise, what is the point? If you wanted to ride a bus on steel wheels, then you might as well ride an actual bus.

Maybe Tricia is right! As Amtrak continues to cut station personnel, maybe they should mothball the new baggage cars as well. How much revenue are they generating?

I think I will continue the rest of my rant in the CEO thread.

The only thing I would ask is who besides Rtabern has written? Tricia, they are in the process of eliminating yet another staffed station.(as soon as it is public, we'll put it up.) That's another kick to the traveler yet they keep doing these things because for some reason, ridership keeps going up. In their minds, corridor traffic (short and intermediate) is the market to chase and what do they care about PPCs, luggage, hell even food! LD riders are the minority! They must be! We keep cutting and they aren't bleeding!

If you are truly interested, kick them in the CSI scores. Write in! Tell them what you need and equally important, tell them what you WANT. Tell them what you EXPECT.

Otherwise, the next cuts will come....it is just a matter of time.

Well, unlike the amenities, ensuring that employees actually do the jobs they're paid for, in a customer-friendly manner, shouldn't cost anything. They're already paying the salaries. I don't have enough experience riding LD to feel confident guessing a percentage, but I've encountered a good many Amtrak staff who go above and beyond earning their pay. And a distressing number who don't come near--way beyond a few bad apples.

Instead of cutting amenities further, perhaps Amtrak should look into supervisory dead wood. Clearly there are supervisors who are failing to ensure consistent service. Whether that's because they're inept, or because they're not given the resources to do their jobs properly, I don't know.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Well, unlike the amenities, ensuring that employees actually do the jobs they're paid for, in a customer-friendly manner, shouldn't cost anything. They're already paying the salaries. I don't have enough experience riding LD to feel confident guessing a percentage, but I've encountered a good many Amtrak staff who go above and beyond earning their pay. And a distressing number who don't come near--way beyond a few bad apples.

Instead of cutting amenities further, perhaps Amtrak should look into supervisory dead wood. Clearly there are supervisors who are failing to ensure consistent service. Whether that's because they're inept, or because they're not given the resources to do their jobs properly, I don't know.

Actually, this has been done. We discussed this in the Amtrak Announces Management/Non-Agreement Buyout thread.

No one updated that thread but once the buyout concluded, phase II (the involuntary reduction) commenced. That phase concluded a few weeks ago. We'll see what results it will yield. However, since payroll is still a big chunk of the subsidies, eliminating positions (rank and file in addition to supervisory) will likely yield more savings.

 

[Triley]

Not that it'll make a difference, but I came across this on Facebook courtesy of a fellow LSA, and thought I'd pass it along.

https://www.change.org/p/amtrak-save-the-coast-starlight-pacific-parlour-cars?recruiter=698295752&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=autopublish&utm_content=nafta_fb_canonical_share_3%3Acontrol

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[Anderson]

What Thirdrail said about labor is actually painfully obvious if you look at the last two MPRs. Now, they dropped a lot of useful data and brought some of the remaining data out to a level of resolution that makes it hard to analyze (e.g. only reporting ridership to the nearest thousand) but one thing that was screaming at me in the November report is that labor costs were up by over 7% YoY. On the one hand, some of this could be one-off expenses ($17.7m of the YTD increase was in October versus $5.6 in November). On the other hand, the summaries of the changes YoY are the sorts of nigh-on useless bits that I'm used to seeing as part of explaining routine contract adjustments: Ok, thanks for mentiong that but I can read the numbers above...what was driving the numbers?

 

[neroden]

Frankly, the competent OBS staff earn their money, as do the competent conductors and ACs.

The yard staff at Chicago are another matter, and there are stories dating from the Pennsy days to last month about behavior there.

Engineers are probably required by host railroad contract, but honestly their job could be automated now, and they seem to get paid a lot.

Management at Chicago is clearly also incompetent. They cut the number of Red Caps below the number necessary to handle disabled passengers, which is illegal; we'll see how long before the lawsuits drop, which will cost more than any putative labor savings.

 

[tricia]

Well, unlike the amenities, ensuring that employees actually do the jobs they're paid for, in a customer-friendly manner, shouldn't cost anything. They're already paying the salaries. I don't have enough experience riding LD to feel confident guessing a percentage, but I've encountered a good many Amtrak staff who go above and beyond earning their pay. And a distressing number who don't come near--way beyond a few bad apples.

Instead of cutting amenities further, perhaps Amtrak should look into supervisory dead wood. Clearly there are supervisors who are failing to ensure consistent service. Whether that's because they're inept, or because they're not given the resources to do their jobs properly, I don't know.

Actually, this has been done. We discussed this in the Amtrak Announces Management/Non-Agreement Buyout thread.

No one updated that thread but once the buyout concluded, phase II (the involuntary reduction) commenced. That phase concluded a few weeks ago. We'll see what results it will yield. However, since payroll is still a big chunk of the subsidies, eliminating positions (rank and file in addition to supervisory) will likely yield more savings.

Unfortunately, as several folks on the thread you've cited noted, it's likely that greater numbers of more-competent (rather than less-competent) employees took the buyout offer and left.

 

[Ryan]

Agreed! Perhaps the Beancounters will kill all the Amenities aboard Trains and then rebrand Amtrak as Ryan Rail.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

My point was Amtrak cant keep making cuts and expecting people to pay the same or even more for worse service and stay in business.

Yet, as you note below, they have been doing that for years and still manage to have increased ridership and revenue.

Sure maybe people will still ride with worse meals on eastern overnight trains... no Parlour Cars... no newspapers... no coffee after 11am... less choices of juices... no amenity kits... no champagne... no wine and cheese tastings... no flowers in the dining car... no china in the dining car... no souveniers sold on board anymore... no movies in the lounge cars... cuts to Trails and Rails... harder to earn and redeem Guest Rewards... on and on.

No maybe about it. They are.

Personally we have reached our breaking point with all the small cuts and BS. We rode for the PPCs and the Dome.

Your end to end trip represnets 0.00004% of Amtrak's annual revenue, even if it's at high bucket. They will neither notice nor care that you choose to do something else with your leisure time.

 

[zephyr17]

When Amtrak first started, and they contracted with the railroads to run the trains in their entireity, Amtrak's initial Super Chief was identical in almost all ways (they rerouted it to serve Topeka and moved the Chicago terminal to Union Station from Dearborn) to the Santa Fe Super Chief, since Santa Fe was running it, including all onboard services.

I rode the Super Chief and, trust me, it's been a very, very long fall from there. And people kept riding. So I don't buy rtabern's argument at all. 46 years of Amtrak mediocrity argue against it.

 

[PVD]

Not always as individuals, but certainly as a society, we have been willing to accept a major downward slide in service in most forms of transportation. Have a coach lounge or full meal on your domestic wide body recently?

 

[zephyr17]

Not always as individuals, but certainly as a society, we have been willing to accept a major downward slide in service in most forms of transportation. Have a coach lounge or full meal on your domestic wide body recently?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't disagree that US transportation has fallen far from grace, but I'm curious why those would be the examples given. Full coach meals were never actually cooked on board and are almost entirely unnecessary in the era of jet speed flights and airports with dozens of food options. Coach lounges were such a rarity that even in their heyday they only lasted a few brief years on a few premium routes before being replaced with additional revenue seats. Widebody domestic aircraft made a lot more sense when airports had fewer gates, airlines had fewer flights, and medium sized domestic aircraft were still on the drawing board.

 

[PVD]

I used those examples because they were indicative of perks or amenities removed in favor of increasing revenues. Not much different than 10 across aircraft becoming 11, or 11 across becoming 12. Food being necessary or not is not the point, it is about something that people came to expect that was taken away, and people accepted it.

 

[Trogdor]

The "decline" in services provided in transportation is almost entirely linked to the shift towards transportation being a utility rather than a luxury. Travel is far more prevalent today than it was decades ago, and (partly as a cause, partly as an effect) costs have gone down quite a bit.

For the vast majority of people, transportation is a means to get somewhere, and they just want it to be as cheap and easy as possible. They don't care about luxury, they don't care about sightseeing, they just want to get where they're going in a timely manner and not pay too much for it.

Some people still want some of the services that were provided in the past, and in many (but not all) cases, you still can. It's just not automatically handed to you like it was before. Want food on a plane? You can still get it, you just have to pay for it. Want more room? Buy Economy Plus, or even domestic first (the upcharge for domestic first on some flights can be as low as $100-200, and your total is still likely to be cheaper than it was in the 1970s and 1980s, flying coach, on those routes).

Lots of companies have tried to go against the tide and provide better service, only to fail (premium-only airlines have consistently struggled, Iowa Pacific learned that the costs of providing a dome car and on-board chef were higher than what they could actually make back in revenue, etc.). The problem is that while *some* people will travel specifically for the amenities, not enough typically do so to justify the added cost of those amenities. For all the railfans that foamed over the restoration of dome-diner service, the couple of times I rode the Hoosier State, we had fewer than 10 people in the car (on one trip, the Cardinal's Amfleet club-dinette business class on the way down had more passengers than the Hoosier State's dome business class on the return). While two trips aren't enough to get a statistically valid sample, they fit with my general observations and lots of data in the transportation industry that when it comes to getting from A to B, simple and cheap will win over luxurious and expensive any day of the week, and it's simply not practical to provide luxury that isn't at least somewhat expensive. Whether those expenses get passed on to the customer, or get absorbed into the company's losses, doesn't change that it is does cost quite a bit to provide.

Eventually, companies have to decide whether maintaining that luxury and service for the very small proportion of people who really want it is worthwhile. In some cases, such as airlines serving meals, they've been able to maintain that service for those who want it by charging for it (don't want it, don't pay for it; want it, pay for it). However, in some cases, and I suspect maintaining the Parlours is one of those, there's no reasonable surcharge that would come close to covering the expense of the car just for those who want it and are willing to pay for it. If they charged passengers an extra $10 to eat and/or do wine tasting in the Parlour car, you'd probably get some folks who'd do it. But there's also no way that $200-300 is going to cover the cost of the car, its maintenance, staff, and extra fuel (yes, more weight does mean more fuel burned) required. What if the cost was $100 per person? Then, certainly, a lot fewer people would choose to do so, and when you have fewer people, the cost per person goes up even more. (Someone earlier in the thread suggested raising fares by $50/room, IIRC. That's disingenuous for a couple of reasons. First, if Amtrak could have been charging $50/room more, with the Parlour Car, then they'd already be doing so. Second, it's incorrect to assume that sleeper passengers don't care about fares and are just willing to pay whatever Amtrak charges. Everybody has their limit.)

In the end, sometimes unpleasant decisions have to be made because what sold in the 1950s doesn't necessarily sell in the 2010s, despite many people's nostalgic desire to keep doing things they remember doing when they were young. But "kids these days" (including business people in their 40s and 50s) would really rather have wifi and a place to charge their electronic devices. Still bring on the booze, but you can keep the dome car.

 

[ChuckL]

Another reminder of service cutbacks on the PPC since October 2013 when this picture was taken. Remember the flowers on the tables (also in the dining car) and the glass wine glasses for the previous wine tastings? The “luxuries” have been taken away by Amtrak pretty steadily.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[riderails]

Find all enthusiasm regarding PPC interesting given very recent CS trip (Nov. 23) on which very few were found in the facility at numerous observations. This included only three tables in use for unshared sitting at one of the "last chance" meal times. This even though the two (admittedly) sleepers seemed to be filled or mostly so. Appears advocates are in a minority. I will admit the few lounge chairs are a delight.