Pennsylvanian may end

[Paulus]

Is there any particular reason that there doesn't appear to be any Thruway connecting service with the Pennsylvanian in order to expand the coverage area and potential ridership? It's been extremely successful in California and I'm always puzzled at its apparent lack in the rest of the country.

 

[afigg]

I checked to see the on-time performance of the train was the past several days and ended up looking up on Amtrak Status Maps the actual arrival times of the westbound #43 the past 2 weeks. I don't know if NS has been running fewer trains the past 2 weeks or the Pennsylvanian has been lucky, but the Pittsburgh arrival times listed below show there sure is a lot of padding at the end of the trip for a corridor train. The question I would pose is whether the longer scheduled trip time hurts ridership because people check the schedule, see a 7:24 PHL-PGH trip time, and decide instead to take a bus, drive, fly. Would cutting the PHL-PGH trip times both ways to under 7 hours boost ridership because 6:55 sounds better than a circa 7:20 trip time?

Eastbound #43 arrival times at Pittsburgh for the past 2 weeks:

1/27 Arrived 35 minutes early
1/28 Arrived 30 minutes early
1/29 Arrived 23 minutes early
1/30 Arrived 27 minutes early
1/31 Arrived 28 minutes early
2/1 Arrived PGH 1:10 late; departed ALT 9 minutes late. then departed JST 1:46 late
2/2 Arrived 32 minutes early
2/3 Arrived 43 minutes late; departed NYP 1:38 late, made up 55 minutes on the trip (Sunnyside yard problems IIRC)
2/4 Arrived 33 minutes early
2/5 Arrived 34 minutes early
2/6 Arrived 29 minutes early
2/7 Arrived 37 minutes early
2/8 Arrived 33 minutes early
2/9 Arrived 35 minutes early
2/10 Arrived 35 minutes early

For only 1 trip out of 15, did #43 lose much time on the trip and got in late despite the 30 minutes of padding for the PGH end.

 

[Anderson]

Is there any particular reason that there doesn't appear to be any Thruway connecting service with the Pennsylvanian in order to expand the coverage area and potential ridership? It's been extremely successful in California and I'm always puzzled at its apparent lack in the rest of the country.

I think PA would have to shell out for the bus service to make it happen.

Edit: The other thing is that I think a lot of north-south services would be rather roundabout ways of getting somewhere (i.e. State College-Altoona type services)

 

[cirdan]

That kinda makes sense, but please note that note all buses are created equal. Many are extremly different from other models. I actualy don't like most "buses" but there's so much stuff that called a bus that it's really hard to explain.

I'm not against buses in general, and admit that Greyhound is better than many others.

But it's the thought of losing passenger trains on Horseshoe Curve that I think is juts wrong.

 

[fairviewroad]

But it's the thought of losing passenger trains on Horseshoe Curve that I think is juts wrong.

As a rail fan, I hear ya. But to most folks, that's a sentimental argument that does nothing

to demonstrate the need for passenger trains along the route.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That kinda makes sense, but please note that note all buses are created equal. Many are extremly different from other models. I actualy don't like most "buses" but there's so much stuff that called a bus that it's really hard to explain.

I'm not against buses in general, and admit that Greyhound is better than many others.

But it's the thought of losing passenger trains on Horseshoe Curve that I think is juts wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get rid of the Pennsy. This is actually one of my favourite SDTs and I want it extended to CHI. It's a day train anyway so my argument does not apply. The problem is that most people west of HAR don't even know about it and they don't care if the government cancels it. So people are saying PA is going to waste money on something unimportant.

BTW, please delete my double post.

 

[Paulus]

Is there any particular reason that there doesn't appear to be any Thruway connecting service with the Pennsylvanian in order to expand the coverage area and potential ridership? It's been extremely successful in California and I'm always puzzled at its apparent lack in the rest of the country.

I think PA would have to shell out for the bus service to make it happen.

Edit: The other thing is that I think a lot of north-south services would be rather roundabout ways of getting somewhere (i.e. State College-Altoona type services)

CA runs their bus services either profitable or revenue neutral, and a lot of it could be east-west running into Ohio and such from Pittsburgh.

 

[A.J.]

a great article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette was put out today and the accompanying video is really nicely done, using lovely images from the train with the words of people who ride it and want to keep it. also of note is the continued excuse by certain DOT staff that HAR-PGH doesn't have enough riders to justify the expense. that staff clearly must be aware of the increase in riders in the between stops, so it sounds to me like it's just a lot of BS on the part of the DOT employees.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/amtraks-regulars-treasure-the-pennsylvanian-675749/

 

[railiner]

I'm late to this thread. I find it absolutely incredible to even think about the possibility of no train service on The Main Line for the first time since what, 18-forty something?

Unbelievable! :huh:

 

[philabos]

I'm late to this thread. I find it absolutely incredible to even think about the possibility of no train service on The Main Line for the first time since what, 18-forty something?Unbelievable! :huh:

I recently saw a photo of a CF&E train at Lima OH. A single track with brush grown up on both sides - you could never tell this was once the double track main line of the mighty PRR. I rode over this same spot in the 60's on the BROADWAY LTD

still on its 16 hour NY-Chicago schedule.

Times change.

 

[Nathanael]

The cost of maintaining the Pennsylvanian is a pittance in state budget terms and obviously it should be maintained. It's been increasing continuously in revenue and considering that, appears to be increasing in popularity -- you can't say the same for the much more expensive Interstate 80, which should probably be discontinued as a overly expensive waste.

But there are road warriors in the executive offices, so we are watching this nonsense. Hopefully Pennsylvania will elect someone without a "road warrior" mentality soon.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

An article in this morning's edition of the Altoona Mirror: "Passengers Rail Against Amtrak Cuts"

I thought this was well stated:

The subsidy, set to be billed to the state in October as part of a 2008 federal law, would keep the Keystone West line running at a nearly $27-per-ticket cost to taxpayers.
The subsidy is roughly the same annual cost as a single Pittsburgh-area bridge replacement carried out this year, Alexander noted.

"We're trying to make the point that this is really not very much money," he said. "PennDOT has been presented a bill by Amtrak - well, if you don't pay the bill, the service is cut off just like if you didn't pay your electricity or your cable bill."

And this to be well written:

"We're going to talk about it to see if there's anything we can do to help," said state Sen. John H. Eichelberger Jr., R-Blair, who sits on the Senate Transportation Committee. "I'm anxious to see. Certainly rail's important to what we do in this state."
U.S. Rep. Bill Shuster, R-9th District, doesn't exercise direct influence over the state decision, but his House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee holds sway over federal policy. In an email statement, Shuster stood between both sides, noting the region's long railroad history but recognizing the state's need for "tough budgetary decisions."

Shuster co-sponsored the Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2008, which established the rule that will soon make the line Pennsylvania's fiscal responsibility.

Great job of showing Rep. Shuster talking out of both sides of his mouth! Rep. Shuster (Like Mr. Smith, but unlike state Sen. Eichelberger Jr.) has obviously gone to Washington!

 

[benjibear]

That way whoever wins, he can say that it was his idea.

 

[Larry H.]

I didn't read every page here but it occurred to me part way though that what is really needed, but would probably never happen is for the route of the National Limited to be reinstated to St. Louis. Its a crime that St. Louis has no direct eastern connections. I rode the National Limited to Pittsburgh and it would solve the issue of having sleepers as well as lounge and probably would help to cover the cost.

 

[benjibear]

I think the Pennsylvania would be more competitive if it had a better connection to go on towards Chicago or the train actually continued and goes to Chicagp.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

The Pennsylvanian would do better if anyone, at all, in Western Pennsylvania knew it exists.

Same with the Capitol Limited.

 

[benjibear]

The Pennsylvanian would do better if anyone, at all, in Western Pennsylvania knew it exists.
Same with the Capitol Limited.

I think alot of people know about it but it becomes inconveniant with only one train a aday.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

The Pennsylvanian would do better if anyone, at all, in Western Pennsylvania knew it exists.
Same with the Capitol Limited.

I think alot of people know about it but it becomes inconveniant with only one train a aday.

About six or seven times a year for the last three years, I take the CL back to Pittsburgh. Every time I run into someone I haven't seen in a while, they'll ask me when I drove up and I'll say I took the train. The response is almost always some version of "you can do that?"

 

[Paulus]

The Pennsylvanian would do better if anyone, at all, in Western Pennsylvania knew it exists.
Same with the Capitol Limited.

I think alot of people know about it but it becomes inconveniant with only one train a aday.

About six or seven times a year for the last three years, I take the CL back to Pittsburgh. Every time I run into someone I haven't seen in a while, they'll ask me when I drove up and I'll say I took the train. The response is almost always some version of "you can do that?"

I had that just the other day here in California, mentioning taking the train instead of driving for a particular trip after someone mentioned three hours stuck in traffic, and that's with 20 daily trips between Amtrak and Metrolink for that particular set of stations.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Trains don't do bad, but most people still don't know about them. Most riders are repeatedly riding Amtrak, not someone who had never heard of it before. But to keep the Pennsy running, I think it should be extended to CHI or STL. At least more people know about trains there.

The National Limited would be a very good addition to the system, BTW.

 

[Barciur]

Somebody a couple of posts mentioned the possibility of not having train service "on the main line". I always assumed that the "Main Line" was the Philadelphia suburbs as far west as maybe PAR, LNC or at a stretch, HAR.

Surely there is no serious threat of losing the Keystone? I'd assume it's an entire different ball game with the Keystone and the Pennsy..

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Somebody a couple of posts mentioned the possibility of not having train service "on the main line". I always assumed that the "Main Line" was the Philadelphia suburbs as far west as maybe PAR, LNC or at a stretch, HAR.
Surely there is no serious threat of losing the Keystone? I'd assume it's an entire different ball game with the Keystone and the Pennsy..

My understanding is that the Keystones would not be impacted, as they are very popular and viewed as very successful - no doubt at least in part due to their frequency.

 

[Ryan]

I always assumed that the "Main Line" was the Philadelphia suburbs as far west as maybe PAR, LNC or at a stretch, HAR.

Nope, "Main Line" refers to the railroad all the way to PGH.

 

[Barciur]

I always assumed that the "Main Line" was the Philadelphia suburbs as far west as maybe PAR, LNC or at a stretch, HAR.

Nope, "Main Line" refers to the railroad all the way to PGH.

Interesting. It might be a difference with the railroad, as I know the locals in the area only consider the Main Line the suburb towns of Philadelphia..

At least that's what I came across here. But that's cleared up now.

One of the other reasons I wouldn't imagine anything happens to Keystone is that a lot of politicians use it It really is a very convenient way to travel between Harrisburg and Philadelphia.

 

[fairviewroad]

Somebody a couple of posts mentioned the possibility of not having train service "on the main line". I always assumed that the "Main Line" was the Philadelphia suburbs as far west as maybe PAR, LNC or at a stretch, HAR.
Surely there is no serious threat of losing the Keystone? I'd assume it's an entire different ball game with the Keystone and the Pennsy..

Some railroad historians can probably explain this better than me, but my understanding is that the "Main Line" originally referred to the Pennsylvania Railroad's

route from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh (still in use today...under different ownership, obviously). This section of railroad dates from the mid-19th Century, and it is

probably correct to say that it has seen passenger train service continuously for the past 150+ years.

Outside of railroad circles, "Main Line" generally refers to the stretch of upper-middle class suburbs roughly from Overbrook to Paoli. Of course it's no

accident that these suburbs correspond to the section of railroad from which it takes its name. But the use of "Main Line" first referred to the entire

stretch to Pittsburgh. But to the average joe, that usage is obsolete. It is almost exclusively used to refer to the section of Philly suburbs located along

the railroad (mostly corresponding to Septa's former R5 line).