Phase VI and the Heritage Fleet

[battalion51]

It's two weeks old, but relavent. I saw this picture on railpictures.net and noticed the Phase VI baggage car mentioned in this topic. I had one of my sources pull a consist on the train and found that its 1757 if that's of importance to anyone.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Well at least that explains something I've always wondered about - all the times we've ridden on V/Ls, never once have any of those video monitors had anything on them or even been lit up, and I've always wondered what the deal was with them. The video equip in the S/L obs. lounge car upper level typically works great on the Sunset trips we've been on, usually running movies, but never any of those V/L coach video monitors. Just as well - it's a lot quieter without something like that running.

As to the P.A. system on V/L, I have to agree that at least half the time it's useless, either just noise, or way too soft to hear anything. When it works, it's great. One trip it was so loud it was feeding back. Miami Joe, thanks for the work you do trying to keep the stuff running! Sounds like a frustrating and mostly thankless job, so -- Thanks!

Wendy and I have undoubtedly been riding on the cars you work on, especially since we ride almost exclusively in Florida, and mostly on the Star and Meteor.

 

[Miami Joe]

Thanks for the feedback!!

Sorry to here about the V/L video. The units are supposed to be working, and I've watched my share of movies at work!!

We check the videos during the PM's and there is a guy to fix it. It is a very delicate system that also suffers from alot of vandalism. I guess that the perps think they can use monitors in their cars! :angry: We caught a guy from CSX stripping the monitors in the yard, a few years ago. :angry:

If you got time, send a letter to Amtrak and let them know about the experience.

Miami Joe

 

[GG-1]

If you got time, send a letter to Amtrak and let them know

Aloha Miami Joe

I have written to amtrack 3 or 4 time about the unavailabily of the Air/Rail program to Hawaii residents. No one has ever responded. Do you know someone who might.

 

[Miami Joe]

I don't know.

I'll look into it Monday.

I would try to find D. gunn's e-mail address. I don't think it would be hard to find.

Miami Joe B)

 

[PRR 60]

Two comments on the viability and marketing sense of an air-rail program for trips originating in Hawaii. The first is the obvious problem that it would be primarily air and proportionately not much rail. The second is that, in today’s air fare environment, you are probably just as well off booking the two modes separately particularly since you could likely beat any package price Amtrak could arrange for the small Hawaii travel market.

Hawaii is the most isolated population center in the world. You folks are nowhere near anything out way out there in the Pacific. The flight from Honolulu to LA is 2550 miles each way: a longer flight than New York to LA. So, just to get to the nearest possible gateway for Amtrak travel, you would fly the equal of a mainland transcontinental trip. If your desired rail segment was LA to Chicago, for example, you would have a flight distance of over 7000 miles and a train ride of maybe 3500 depending on how you went. To make this work, Amtrak would have to compensate the airline for your two lengthy plane rides and still have something left for the rail portion. Airlines would be reluctant to commit to low fares for an entire year for the very small number of passengers an Amtrak package would generate from Hawaii. My guess is that we would be talking about $800 for air and two-zone rail for Hawaii origination.

Air-rail trips originating in the 48 states are usually one way rail and one way air. What makes air-rail sometimes attractive for those trips is the relative high cost of one-way air travel (that is less true today than a couple of years ago). But, even for origination in the 48 states, it is often possible to independently book the air and rail separately and beat the package price. Out of the competitive Philadelphia air market today, I am certain I could beat the air-rail package every time. Travel originating in Hawaii using two lengthy air segments would be even easier for independent booking to beat air-rail.

Flying from Hawaii you would fly to a mainland city (say LA), ride the train, and then fly back probably from a different mainland city (say Chicago). Booking this yourself you have a choice of air carriers. As an example, the fare for travel in October HNL-LAX and return ORD-HNL would be about $450 on Northwest or ATA. Add in about $250 for Amtrak coach travel LAX-CHI, and you come in at $700. Amtrak would have a very tough time beating that cost for an air-rail package.

Living in Hawaii has lots of great attributes, but convenience to travel in the other 49 states is not one. I think Amtrak sees only a minimal market for air-rail packages out of Hawaii and, with some astute travel web site surfing, you could almost certainly beat what Amtrak could contractually arrange.

 

[EmpireBuilderFan]

GG-1,

If snail mail is sufficient, I was able to get a letter to David Gunn using this address:

Mr. David Gunn

President, National Rail Passenger Corporation

60 Massachusetts Ave., N.E.

Washington, D.C. 20002

(NRPC is the "official" name of Amtrak)

Mr. Gunn is reported to read and reply to every letter that he receives, and he did reply to my letter that I sent to him (it was an "atta boy" letter for a particularly good crew on the Empire Builder). Since you haven't had much luck getting a response from the customer service people, Mr. Gunn might be able to help you, if not at least listen to your concerns and answer them.

 

[haolerider]

The Air/Rail program is limited at the present time to United, so if UAL does not want to provide pricing on the HNL-Mainland route, there is little Amtrak can do about this. The program is outsourced to a company that operates the Amtrak Vacaitons product. While Amtrak has oversight concerning what programs are offered it does not build the programs or purchase the component parts.

Air/Rail is stricly a domestic program and as was pointed out by a previous memver, it would not be feasible for UAL to give up their limited air lift to HNL for such a limited program.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Two responses received were interesting, forgetting why as a Hawaii resident I ask to be included in the Air/Rail Program. My next trip is a perfect example of the problem.

I need to go to New Orleans, My daughter lives in LA. I want to ride the California Zepher.

The Airlines serviceing Hawaii, with United being the largest and around 85% of the seats, insist to get a round trip fare, I must go to a city and return from the same city. So does Amtrack Vacations.

What I want the Air/Rail program to allow is the ability to use Amtrak as a continuos trip. Air out and back, and Amtrak for the mainland segments. I think if Hawaii residents could include the combined travel more would ride the train. It isn't fair that someone can visit here with special vacation packages through Amtrack and yet I can not enjoy the same pricing traveling the other way. I am living in a US State. Yet we receive unequal service from many of the 48 state company's, beyond the real diferences.

If I could have used a package, my trip would fly to LA, train to NO, train to CHI, train to SFO, fly home. When I priced this route I received the best price of 1850.00 By changing ths trip to a combo HNL-LAX by air and LAX-EMY-CHI-NOL/air back to LA, the price came down to 1150. IF I flew R/T to NOL from Honolulu the air is 650. The meals and time are worth the extra 500 but not 1000.00. (Please understand I am rounding prices)

Anyway, Mahalo for your interest and time.

Eric

 

[Miami Joe]

Hi Eric!

I too, had to deal with the "double standard," when I was TDY at Hickam AFB during the 80's.

Had an idea!!!!

Do you think you would get the pass, if you book the trip thru a travel agent?

How about one on the mainland?

Just a thought!!! :blink:

Miami Joe B)

 

[haolerider]

As I have mentioned in the previous posts, Amtrak does not create the packages for Amtrak Vacations or the Air/Rail program. If United does not want to work with the Hawaii destinations, that is all there is to it.

By the way, you mention people taking Amtrak Vacations packages to Hawaii and that not being fair.......there are no Amtrak Vacation packages to the Islands......it is not an Amtrak Vacations destination at all.

If you watch the deals with Aloha or Hawaiian or maybe ATA, you might find a round trip fare in the low $400s or even less. You would not get anyting close to that with the Air/Rail program. Consider the inconvenience as the price you pay to live in Paradise.

 

[PRR 60]

The Airlines serviceing Hawaii, with United being the largest and around 85% of the seats, insist to get a round trip fare, I must go to a city and return from the same city. So does Amtrack Vacations.

I cannot speak for Amtrak Vacations, but you do not have to fly round trip to and from the same city. Open Jaw trips are common and, from Hawaii to the mainland, economical. Hawaiian will fly you from HNL to LAX and back from SFO to HNL for as low as $375. United will do the same trip for as low as $520.

Try Expedia and see for yourself. You do not need an air - rail package to make your trip work from Hawaii. In fact, air rail would cost you more.

 

[GG-1]

Open Jaw trips are common and, from Hawaii to the mainland, economical.  Hawaiian will fly you from HNL to LAX and back from SFO to HNL for as low as $375.  United will do the same trip for as low as $520.  
Try Expedia and see for yourself.  You do not need an air - rail package to make your trip work from Hawaii.  In fact, air rail would cost you more.

Aloha

At the time I was attemting to book this trip I tried Expedia among others. I have also used the open leg on several trips. This is only allowed for open segements of 10 days, as I was quoted. I agree most times the discounters have the lowest prices, but not this time.

Also Someone else stated Amtrak Vacations doesn't offer Hawaiian Vacations but 3 years ago a cosin visited me with an Amtrak vacation and wile putting this trip together I saw the reverse available for less again awaking the feeling of being a second class citizen.

But at least I am going to ride, this September

 

[haolerider]

Enough already. Amtrak Vacations has never had a Hawaiian package and you are not a second class citizen. I just sent my son to Honolulu for $360 roundtrip on AA. The deals are out there, you just need to look for them. As has been stated before, the Air/Rail prices are generally higher than the internet/booking engine deals available.