Pullman Rail Journeys cheaper than Amtrak

[montana mike]

CHI-NYP hasn't started yet.

CBS Sunday morning just did a story on them last week:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/pullman-rail-cars-a-detour-back-through-time/

Loved it!! I take the CONO fairly frequently from CHI. This might be a lot of fun for my next trip!

 

[afigg]

In case people missed the news, Iowa Pacific Holdings, which operates Pullman Rail Journeys, has sold 80% of the company to an investor. What this means for the Pullman service and Iowa Pacific efforts to get into the passenger rail service business remains to be seen.

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has a column on the buyout of IPH with comments from Ed Ellis, the founder of IPH: The Ed Ellis Story (continued). The investment may mean more capital for expansion of the Pullman service, but a major outside investor is going to expect to get a return on his investment.

 

[Blackwolf]

In case people missed the news, Iowa Pacific Holdings, which operates Pullman Rail Journeys, has sold 80% of the company to an investor. What this means for the Pullman service and Iowa Pacific efforts to get into the passenger rail service business remains to be seen.

Fred Frailey of Trains Magazine has a column on the buyout of IPH with comments from Ed Ellis, the founder of IPH: The Ed Ellis Story (continued). The investment may mean more capital for expansion of the Pullman service, but a major outside investor is going to expect to get a return on his investment.

Should be interesting to watch as this relationship matures. There is some insight on where IPH/Pullman has their sights aimed for the next service: Chicago-New York on the Cardinal route. I tell you what, I'd ride that in an instant!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Ditto! Being in a PV with good food and drink and a Dome Car on the Card would be a real treat! (Especially if the fares were somewhat competitive with the Cards High Bucket Sleeper!

 

[jis]

That's correct. The Hudson Express private car between New York and Albany will be boarding out of Club Acela at Penn Station. Just got email on that today.

Is that a regularly run car, and how do I get more info? I would love to do that.

Here you go...

http://urhs.org/blog/spring-hudson-limited/

Of course, if one wishes, one can lease the car for one's own use, for an appropriate amount of money. It is available for such operations.

 

[7deuceman]

I want to treat my better half to a weekend in the New Orleans area via the Pullman service. Perhaps in the late fall when the leaves are changing, the temps in the bayou are lower and there's less humidity.

But I am really excited about the prospect of riding the Pullman and a Dome car on the Cardinal, when the NY - Chicago service starts.

 

[Allypet]

That's correct. The Hudson Express private car between New York and Albany will be boarding out of Club Acela at Penn Station. Just got email on that today.

Is that a regularly run car, and how do I get more info? I would love to do that.

Here you go...

http://urhs.org/blog/spring-hudson-limited/

Of course, if one wishes, one can lease the car for one's own use, for an appropriate amount of money. It is available for such operations.

Wow. Too bad I can't make the spring trip, this weekend I have plans. I sure hope they do it again this year!

 

[jis]

That's correct. The Hudson Express private car between New York and Albany will be boarding out of Club Acela at Penn Station. Just got email on that today.

Is that a regularly run car, and how do I get more info? I would love to do that.

Here you go...

http://urhs.org/blog/spring-hudson-limited/

Of course, if one wishes, one can lease the car for one's own use, for an appropriate amount of money. It is available for such operations.

Wow. Too bad I can't make the spring trip, this weekend I have plans. I sure hope they do it again this year!

I have a ticket for the Saturday run. I will ask them what their plans are regarding future runs. I'd really like to do a trip in this car around the Horseshoe Curve, even though it might be considered blasphemous to run a premium car from the 20th Century Limited on the route of the Broadway Limited.

 

[afigg]

If Pullman adds their cars to the Cardinal, I think they would have to allow people to board and disembark at PHL and WAS. The markets there are too large to adhere to their CONO model of only selling tickets between the CHI and NOL endpoints.

Then there is the possibility of teaming up with the Greenbrier in White Sulfur Springs WV. The owner of Greenbrier had plans several years ago to add luxury cars to the Cardinal for guests to travel to the resort from DC (and NYC?), but those plans fell apart.

If the LSL was available or there was a Three Rivers/Broadway Limited still running, pretty sure that PRJ would be running their cars on those trains for the NYC to CHI market. But the Cardinal is there as an alternative to tap that market.

 

[Ryan]

Maybe just WAS. People in PHL can take the train to WAS or NYP to board.

The article didn't make the Cardinal sound like a done deal to me:

We would like to run a Pullman service between Chicago and New York, perhaps using the Cardinal.

A partnership with the Greenbriar folks would be interesting and probably help their bottom line. They are absolutely up front about their desire to turn a profit (duh!), it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I wonder if we're in for a future where private companies move in on the profitable routes to skim the cream off, leaving Amtrak as the "Essential Air Service" of the rails.

 

[Allypet]

That's correct. The Hudson Express private car between New York and Albany will be boarding out of Club Acela at Penn Station. Just got email on that today.

Is that a regularly run car, and how do I get more info? I would love to do that.

Here you go...

http://urhs.org/blog/spring-hudson-limited/

Of course, if one wishes, one can lease the car for one's own use, for an appropriate amount of money. It is available for such operations.

Wow. Too bad I can't make the spring trip, this weekend I have plans. I sure hope they do it again this year!

I have a ticket for the Saturday run. I will ask them what their plans are regarding future runs. I'd really like to do a trip in this car around the Horseshoe Curve, even though it might be considered blasphemous to run a premium car from the 20th Century Limited on the route of the Broadway Limited.

Thanks Jis for asking about future trips. Enjoy the voyage and take lots of pictures!

 

[PRR 60]

For a Cardinal deal, they would likely have to park the dome at Washington anyway. I don't believe the dome will fit through the NEC tunnels, and Amtrak does not permit a dome to be occupied under energized catenary.

 

[jis]

For a Cardinal deal, they would likely have to park the dome at Washington anyway. I don't believe the dome will fit through the NEC tunnels, and Amtrak does not permit a dome to be occupied under energized catenary.

The last plan of theirs that I saw, they planned to run the Pullman service only between Chicago and Washington on the Cardinal. They have considered running a separate Pullman service Chic ago to New York either via the Lake Shore Limited (a bit of a hitch with the lack of platform length at the platforms that the LSL can use) and also via the Cap and Pennsylvanian, which requires a move of the consist between the Cap and the Pennsylvanian at Pittsburgh.

 

[Paulus]

Maybe just WAS. People in PHL can take the train to WAS or NYP to board.

The article didn't make the Cardinal sound like a done deal to me:

We would like to run a Pullman service between Chicago and New York, perhaps using the Cardinal.

A partnership with the Greenbriar folks would be interesting and probably help their bottom line. They are absolutely up front about their desire to turn a profit (duh!), it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I wonder if we're in for a future where private companies move in on the profitable routes to skim the cream off, leaving Amtrak as the "Essential Air Service" of the rails.

That would require Amtrak to have profitable routes outside the NEC in the first place.

 

[Ryan]

All of the state-funded routes are profitable (or at least break-even) from Amtrak's perspective.

 

[Paulus]

All of the state-funded routes are profitable (or at least break-even) from Amtrak's perspective.

No, Amtrak still runs a small loss on all but the VA routes.

 

[jis]

All of the state-funded routes are profitable (or at least break-even) from Amtrak's perspective.

No, Amtrak still runs a small loss on all but the VA routes.

I think that is mainly because they just could not convince anyone that what they were claiming the cost is based on the mystery cost allocation algorithm that they seem to be unable to explain even to themselves sometimes, was actually believable. So they were stuck negotiating a mutually acceptable price. In short they basically swallowed the bitter pill of reallocating those extra allocations somewhere else, but just in case, they still call them allocations to the operations that will never pay for them. I don't quite understand the logic of that, but c'est la vie.
I have heard usually reliable hearsay that Pennsylvania steadfastly refused to accept Amtrak's demands on the Pennsylvanian until Amtrak caved. Same is true of the course that the negotiations with New York took. It apparently came to a point where New York was quite ready to walk away and have Amtrak shut down operations and then try to explain to Congress why they did so. Amtrak at that point decided that desecration was the better part of valor and backed down. This one was particularly ironical since 10 or 12 years back it is Boardman sitting on the New York side of the table, that was decking it out with Gunn regarding the Turboliners.

So whether it is a loss or not is still open to question. Who knows? Just because you throw a dart at a board and allocate a cost does not necessarily make it a real cost. It does however make it easier to remove that cost from something else. This is a favorite game that is played by large corporations when they write down losses. If they decide to do so for whatever reason they will load up everything including the kitchen sink that they can pass under the scrutiny of the SEC. Since stuff written down cleans out the books and allows things to look much much better, until the next time.

 

[Shortline]

Curious, did anyone else take advantage of this special and book?

 

[railbuck]

I'm doing NOL-CHI in October.

 

[RickIronton]

Pullman has added another rail fare bargain for August 10th 2014.

So, it seems that to be apprised of the current discounts it would be worthwhile to subscribe to their updates at their site

http://www.travelpullman.com/

I'm watching and one day, I'll be a traveler on Pullman on the tail end of the City of New Orleans Amtrak consist.

 

[ciship]

Would love to take the Pullman, but it is just too expensive for the dates I'm looking at in June 2015. $780 vs $531 on Amtrak. I know the Pullman price includes alcohol, but I can't drink $249 worth of liquor on such a short trip.

 

[Anderson]

It looks like Pullman is using a bucket system not unlike Amtrak. I'd point out that the wacky pricing situation is not unlike the "Stupid Roomette Tricks" I've used many times.

 

[dart330]

Would love to take the Pullman, but it is just too expensive for the dates I'm looking at in June 2015. $780 vs $531 on Amtrak. I know the Pullman price includes alcohol, but I can't drink $249 worth of liquor on such a short trip.

On the dining page it says "Guests may not consume liquor aboard purchased prior to boarding Pullman." Where does it say the liquor is included in the price? Sounds more like no private stock in public spaces.

 

[Shortline]

It is all inclusive. Fare covers all expenses, including beer wine or liquor. Only other expense is tips, paid at one time at the end, in the provided envelope.

 

[Ryan]

Would love to take the Pullman, but it is just too expensive for the dates I'm looking at in June 2015. $780 vs $531 on Amtrak. I know the Pullman price includes alcohol, but I can't drink $249 worth of liquor on such a short trip.

On the dining page it says "Guests may not consume liquor aboard purchased prior to boarding Pullman." Where does it say the liquor is included in the price? Sounds more like no private stock in public spaces.

Right at the very top where it says "We've carefully crafted a delicious menu to help you savor every moment of the journey, with freshly prepared meals and classic cocktails included compliments of Pullman Rail Journeys." (Bold theirs)