Quality of Service lacking . . .

[amtrakwolverine]

Unfortunately amtrak employees are union so they can't be fired on rudeness alone.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

Unfortunately, you are correct, Amtrakwolverine. I was referring to an ideal world where employees can be fired for not doing their jobs, as opposed to a unionized world where incompetence is protected and even rewarded!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Hope your three year old likes slicing cow parts up in a poorly lit room with a very sharp knife and no training.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

You can have the union but rules need to change. enough with the 50 million page reports that must be filed on why a person should be fired. The rule should be if enough complaints come in about a certain employee that person should be let go or at least demoted from the job they're getting complaints from.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Unfortunately amtrak employees are union so they can't be fired on rudeness alone.

I don't think it's unions alone that makes this the issue it's become. I've never worked a union job in my life and yet I've known many workers who could not be easily fired in the conventional method. There are any number of ways to work around those issues though. Not least of which is to simply keep forcing them to take endless training on how to behave properly around paying customers. They'll either get it through their thick skulls or maybe they'll leave on their own or transfer to different division that doesn't deal with customers. Can't this be done with union folks as well?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Okay most everybody knows that T&E and OBS are separate on the train, they also have separate unions. The T&E unions are very strong, and strict. Rudeness is not something they can be fired for, but if one of them fails a drug test, falls asleep, endangers a person ect they will be cut like *that* and the union won't help them, unless the situation is complex.

The OBS union isn't as strong and puts up with a lot of BS from corporate. Their employees often put up with a lot more than persons in similar positions. Domestic fight attendants for instance, you only see them for a few hours at most. With OBS you are basically LIVING with that employee for two days. I'm amazed many of them can keep a happy smile as long as they do-- I know I couldn't keep an uppity mood given those conditions.

It goes beyond dealing with unaware people, or answering 400 questions about how much a cheeseburger is when the menu is right above your head. They clean rooms, turn down beds, cook, wash down tables, from 6am to midnight. That's an 18 hour shift with only about three hours of downtime.

Have you ever cleaned another person's bathroom? Have you had your hands in **** rags? Have you tried to force "skids" down the bowl only to have somebody five minutes later mess it up again? I get a kick when I see people ask the café car attendant to clean the bathrooms. They aren't given proper cleaning supplies. Hell the coach cleaners are working so fast to get a train out that they don't really clean, they just freshen it. About the only time the cars get a good cleaning is when they get gutted and refurbed.

Has anybody ever given thought to an attendant who brings you pillows? I mean, they do make an attempt at cleaning the bathrooms-- and then hand you pillows an hour later.

The only real solution I see to this is for every LD train to have another OBS employee to be a designated "cleaner" on board to make rounds through the train.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

You can hate your job and co-workers all you want just don't take your anger out on the passengers. If we stop riding trains there out of a job.

 

[had8ley]

Unfortunately amtrak employees are union so they can't be fired on rudeness alone.

You're almost right but OBS scoundrels usually break other rules if they are always ugly to the pax. What usually happens is management creates a portfolio of charges to bring the offender to an investigation. Rudeness is probably one of the weaker charges but coupled with a safety violation or an EEOC violation they usually are given time off if not outright dismissed. Believe it or not (and I've witnessed this myself) union officials will tell a person up for investigation, "This is the last time we bail you out. One more goof-off and you're on your own." Yes, the union has to represent the member but there is no guarantee as to how effective that representation may be. Also, there is a lot of closed door politics

that may, or may not, work to the offenders advantage. At the present time a conductor is # 1 on my list of "wish he'd find another job."

 

[Caleb Skye]

I highly doubt your not knowing where the dining cars or bathrooms were is the crews fault. Amtrak has little posters they put on car doors "this way to the dining car" and all coaches on that consist have bathrooms, with signs on the ceiling pointing to where the nearest restroom is. The crew also makes periodic announcements from the dining and lounge car and they ALWAYS indicate where the car is in relation to the coaches and sleepers, of course your PA system may not have been working, still...

Breakfast and Dinner times were not announced (at all), and lunch reservations were only taken on the trip down--not on the trip back. It was always a gamble, in other words. There were no signs, brochures, pamphlets, or any form of information regarding meals.

Announcements were only made regarding STOPS, not meals.

Caleb

 

[Caleb Skye]

Yea .... I was gonna say. The annoncements are few and far between IF you can even hear them IF the PA system is working IF they even bother to make any announcements. But it is a train you know the Restrooms and Diner are down one hall or the other

The announcements are made after each major stop, they usually begin telling people to review the safety instructions.

They also happen when the attendant takes a break, resumes service after a break, and before, after and during all meal times. They are anything but infrequent.

Most people just ignore announcements, then complain they're not informed.

The announcements were not made. Period. The only announcements that were made regarded the STOPS, not meals.

 

[rrdude]

Yea .... I was gonna say. The annoncements are few and far between IF you can even hear them IF the PA system is working IF they even bother to make any announcements. But it is a train you know the Restrooms and Diner are down one hall or the other

The announcements are made after each major stop, they usually begin telling people to review the safety instructions.

They also happen when the attendant takes a break, resumes service after a break, and before, after and during all meal times. They are anything but infrequent.

Most people just ignore announcements, then complain they're not informed.

And a rather large percentage of the time, the Amtrak employee's PA announcement CANNOT be heard, or is garbled, (didn't key the mike properly, loose connection, it HAPPENS)

 

[rrdude]

Okay most everybody knows that T&E and OBS are separate on the train, they also have separate unions. The T&E unions are very strong, and strict. Rudeness is not something they can be fired for, but if one of them fails a drug test, falls asleep, endangers a person ect they will be cut like *that* and the union won't help them, unless the situation is complex.

The OBS union isn't as strong and puts up with a lot of BS from corporate. Their employees often put up with a lot more than persons in similar positions. Domestic fight attendants for instance, you only see them for a few hours at most. With OBS you are basically LIVING with that employee for two days. I'm amazed many of them can keep a happy smile as long as they do-- I know I couldn't keep an uppity mood given those conditions.

It goes beyond dealing with unaware people, or answering 400 questions about how much a cheeseburger is when the menu is right above your head. They clean rooms, turn down beds, cook, wash down tables, from 6am to midnight. That's an 18 hour shift with only about three hours of downtime.

Have you ever cleaned another person's bathroom? Have you had your hands in **** rags? Have you tried to force "skids" down the bowl only to have somebody five minutes later mess it up again? I get a kick when I see people ask the café car attendant to clean the bathrooms. They aren't given proper cleaning supplies. Hell the coach cleaners are working so fast to get a train out that they don't really clean, they just freshen it. About the only time the cars get a good cleaning is when they get gutted and refurbed.

Has anybody ever given thought to an attendant who brings you pillows? I mean, they do make an attempt at cleaning the bathrooms-- and then hand you pillows an hour later.

The only real solution I see to this is for every LD train to have another OBS employee to be a designated "cleaner" on board to make rounds through the train.

DISAGREE, DISAGREE, DISAGREE, ON EACH AND EVERY POINT. I "walked the walk" and cleaned up other people's poop and pee, (even though I was technically a waiter my first year.)

When you work in hospitality, you do WHATEVER it takes to make your customers happy, otherwise, "no customers, no job".

I've seen more disgusting things, and cleaned them up, on a train than I would ever type in this forum. All you have to do is ask "If I was a customer, what would I expect". Then the answer is very clear. And you "do it", regardless (often) if it is your "job" or not........

 

[had8ley]

Okay most everybody knows that T&E and OBS are separate on the train, they also have separate unions. The T&E unions are very strong, and strict. Rudeness is not something they can be fired for, but if one of them fails a drug test, falls asleep, endangers a person ect they will be cut like *that* and the union won't help them, unless the situation is complex.

The OBS union isn't as strong and puts up with a lot of BS from corporate. Their employees often put up with a lot more than persons in similar positions. Domestic fight attendants for instance, you only see them for a few hours at most. With OBS you are basically LIVING with that employee for two days. I'm amazed many of them can keep a happy smile as long as they do-- I know I couldn't keep an uppity mood given those conditions.

It goes beyond dealing with unaware people, or answering 400 questions about how much a cheeseburger is when the menu is right above your head. They clean rooms, turn down beds, cook, wash down tables, from 6am to midnight. That's an 18 hour shift with only about three hours of downtime.

Have you ever cleaned another person's bathroom? Have you had your hands in **** rags? Have you tried to force "skids" down the bowl only to have somebody five minutes later mess it up again? I get a kick when I see people ask the café car attendant to clean the bathrooms. They aren't given proper cleaning supplies. Hell the coach cleaners are working so fast to get a train out that they don't really clean, they just freshen it. About the only time the cars get a good cleaning is when they get gutted and refurbed.

Has anybody ever given thought to an attendant who brings you pillows? I mean, they do make an attempt at cleaning the bathrooms-- and then hand you pillows an hour later.

The only real solution I see to this is for every LD train to have another OBS employee to be a designated "cleaner" on board to make rounds through the train.

DISAGREE, DISAGREE, DISAGREE, ON EACH AND EVERY POINT. I "walked the walk" and cleaned up other people's poop and pee, (even though I was technically a waiter my first year.)

When you work in hospitality, you do WHATEVER it takes to make your customers happy, otherwise, "no customers, no job".

I've seen more disgusting things, and cleaned them up, on a train than I would ever type in this forum. All you have to do is ask "If I was a customer, what would I expect". Then the answer is very clear. And you "do it", regardless (often) if it is your "job" or not........

Can I agree with your disagreement? First of all ANY employee can be fired for rudeness whether it be T&E or OBS. All an official has to do is tell an employee to behave and the next time s/he doesn't he/she is charged with insubordination~ a MAJOR offense in RR'ing.When you take a job serving the public you have to expect the unexpected. Last year, while I was working at an LSU football game, one of the concession stand managers came running up to me. Problem ??? A fan had traded a joint for three hot dogs and the kids were passing it around !!! I've slept on cabooses and mail sacks but I don't ever think I'll ever be dumb enough to say, "I've seen it all" when it comes to pax trains. :blush:

 

[AlanB]

I understand not taking new customers in the diner after Slidell but closing the cafe when they still have an hour, sometimes more, that they could bring in more food and drink revenue.

The cafe attendant has a mountain of paperwork that he/she must complete and they must count everything in stock that they're going to return to the commissary in NOL. And since the attendant stops getting paid basically the minute that the train stops in NOL, they want that paperwork done before they get to NOL.

 

[had8ley]

I understand not taking new customers in the diner after Slidell but closing the cafe when they still have an hour, sometimes more, that they could bring in more food and drink revenue.

The cafe attendant has a mountain of paperwork that he/she must complete and they must count everything in stock that they're going to return to the commissary in NOL. And since the attendant stops getting paid basically the minute that the train stops in NOL, they want that paperwork done before they get to NOL.

It's also home base for all the OBS except for the NYP diner crew~ they are a group unto their own. Let's not forget the poor LSA that got brought up on charges for denying Amtrak revenue because a "spotter" asked for a cup of noodles that he couldn't find. Well, he/she have to find that cup and a lot more inventory before backing into NOL.If you haven't had enough to eat or drink for the 28 preceding hours I'm sure you can wait until you can get to Bourbon Street.

 

[the_traveler]

Breakfast and Dinner times were not announced (at all), and lunch reservations were only taken on the trip down--not on the trip back. It was always a gamble, in other words. There were no signs, brochures, pamphlets, or any form of information regarding meals.

Announcements were only made regarding STOPS, not meals.

Breakfast is always first come / first served, thus there is never any reservations taken, Dinner is by reservation only, but sleeping car passengers have first choice. Perhaps there were not any reservation times left! Lunch sometimes is by reservation, sometimes not.

I have NEVER heard them not announce meals. ("First call for lunch", "Last call for lunch", "People with 5:30 reservations, come to the diner", etc.) The only announcement for meals not said is first call for breakfast - and that is because the diner opens at 6 AM and they do not use the PA prior to 7 AM!

 

[rrdude]

And Dave, I have never, ever, been on multi-day trip, where I heard them call over the PA for every meal. Recently on the Capitol Limited I was IN the diner, heard a muffled, very muffled PA announcement. I told the LSA who made it that "even thou I'm IN the diner, your message didn't quite sound clear........" He just shrugged. About ten minutes, or less, later 8 coach paz came in to eat. "Diner's closed, try the snack bar." Five minutes later, a Sleeping Car passenger comes in, "Diner's closed ma'am, try the snack car". She told him she didn't hear anything, and he just shrugged again. She left, came back with here SCA, and sat down and ate. I'm only guessing that the SCA didn't hear the announcement either, and was in jeopardy of losing a nice tip, thru no fault of his own.

But those 8 coach passengers, well, I'm sure they have told dozens and dozens of people since that trip how they were treated.........

 

[Devil's Advocate]

But those 8 coach passengers, well, I'm sure they have told dozens and dozens of people since that trip how they were treated.

Exactly! And, honestly, who could blame them?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I was on the SWC back in 07 with my mom on our way to visit her brother in Arizona. We were in coach and had a i think 7:30PM diner time. It was never called. The called the one before and after that so we went at 8PM. This was also the only time I have heard the dining car person say we have called all the times if you haven't had a time but would like to eat you may come to the dining car.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

And a rather large percentage of the time, the Amtrak employee's PA announcement CANNOT be heard, or is garbled, (didn't key the mike properly, loose connection, it HAPPENS)

Well since the OP says they heard the announcements at stops... I don't deny Amtrak's PAs are flighty at best, it is just clear that this is a case of selective memory.

I have a feeling the OP just tuned it all out. You can deny it all you want, but reservations are made for lunch and dinner-- and they walk through the coaches to get said reservations. You had your headphones on, you were in the bathroom, maybe you were in the lounge car or simply not paying attention.

Announcements made by café listing some of their selection every few hours

Announcements made by café when they were going on break

Announcements made by café when they were coming back from break

Announcements made by café when they had to unload trash and close at a stop

Announcements made by café when they were open in the morning

Announcements made by café when they were closed in the night

Announcements made by the diner that breakfast was open

Announcements made by the diner that breakfast is communal seating

Announcements made by the diner that they were ready to begin waitlisting

Announcements made by the diner that they were closed for breakfast

Announcements made by the diner that they were taking reservations for lunch

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 11 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 11:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for noon were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 12:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 1 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch was closed

Announcements made by the diner that they were taking reservations for dinner

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 5 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 5:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 6 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 6:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 7 were ready

Of course the times are just examples. But here's the point: without those announcements meal service is a complete disaster. These announcements and the reservation system is required, they happened whether you heard them or not. They aren't required just by rules, they're required if the crew wants to avoid utter chaos.

Now assuming that the PA in your car wasn't playing nice with the PA in the diner then you must have missed the LSA walking through your car, AND not have had the common assertiveness to walk to the diner and ask what happened. I'm guessing the later is the case, in which case I'm sorry-- but it falls on your to find out information if a technical failure prevents the crew from communicating with you.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I've seen more disgusting things, and cleaned them up, on a train than I would ever type in this forum. All you have to do is ask "If I was a customer, what would I expect". Then the answer is very clear. And you "do it", regardless (often) if it is your "job" or not........

As a customer I expect that you wouldn't be elbow deep in **** (literally) one minute and serving me food the next without a complete shower and clothing change in between. That's downright disgusting. I realize that customers are selfish and single-minded, not thinking of that... but it is also YOUR job to think ahead a few steps to make sure that the customer is safe as well as happy.

Saying "I was just trying to make them happy" is as flimsy excuse when compared to "I was just trying to uphold FDA standards in the safety of preparation of food"

 

[Caleb Skye]

And a rather large percentage of the time, the Amtrak employee's PA announcement CANNOT be heard, or is garbled, (didn't key the mike properly, loose connection, it HAPPENS)

Well since the OP says they heard the announcements at stops... I don't deny Amtrak's PAs are flighty at best, it is just clear that this is a case of selective memory.

I have a feeling the OP just tuned it all out. You can deny it all you want, but reservations are made for lunch and dinner-- and they walk through the coaches to get said reservations. You had your headphones on, you were in the bathroom, maybe you were in the lounge car or simply not paying attention.

Announcements made by café listing some of their selection every few hours

Announcements made by café when they were going on break

Announcements made by café when they were coming back from break

Announcements made by café when they had to unload trash and close at a stop

Announcements made by café when they were open in the morning

Announcements made by café when they were closed in the night

Announcements made by the diner that breakfast was open

Announcements made by the diner that breakfast is communal seating

Announcements made by the diner that they were ready to begin waitlisting

Announcements made by the diner that they were closed for breakfast

Announcements made by the diner that they were taking reservations for lunch

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 11 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 11:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for noon were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 12:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch reservations for 1 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that lunch was closed

Announcements made by the diner that they were taking reservations for dinner

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 5 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 5:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 6 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 6:30 were ready

Announcements made by the diner that dinner reservations for 7 were ready

Of course the times are just examples. But here's the point: without those announcements meal service is a complete disaster. These announcements and the reservation system is required, they happened whether you heard them or not. They aren't required just by rules, they're required if the crew wants to avoid utter chaos.

Now assuming that the PA in your car wasn't playing nice with the PA in the diner then you must have missed the LSA walking through your car, AND not have had the common assertiveness to walk to the diner and ask what happened. I'm guessing the later is the case, in which case I'm sorry-- but it falls on your to find out information if a technical failure prevents the crew from communicating with you.

I'm not completely sure why you insist these announcements were made.

I'm a reasonably well-educated person who is very much prone to follow rules, logic, and I always pay attention to announcements. As I've said a few times already, I will say again. On the way down, reservations were taken for lunch and not for dinner. I never said they weren't taken for breakfast, because I understand that breakfast is walk-in's welcome, as it were. I knew this from reading the Amtrak website.

Now, on the way BACK from NOL to ATL (as I clearly stated), there were no reservations taken. Period. If I had been in the bathroom, my traveling partner would have been aware of the passing reservation-taker and I would have been made aware. That did not happen. We never once left our seats at the SAME time, as we were careful to watch our laptops, etc.

Neither of us every wore headphones or earbuds, and while he did sleep, I spent the entire trip either reading or sight-seeing.

So, again, whether you accept the fact or not, the reservations were not taken. Maybe it was because there were not enough passengers in my car--maybe twenty, maybe it was because the train was delayed a few hours (see original post) due to circumstances beyond Amtrak's control that threw things off-trace (pardon the pun), but for whatever reason, reservations were not taken and lunch and dinner were not announced.

Maybe it was the PA system, maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was laziness. Either way, I felt uninformed.

To further satisfy your comments, I did go to the dining car on two occasions only to find it full (I think others just knew the drill, etc). So I just enjoyed the snack bar--which was great, by the way.

So, this is not exactly a complaint, it is a HOW CAN AMTRAK IMPROVE post.

Basically, I almost completely enjoyed traveling on Amtrak. But, the few points I mentioned in the OP, if improved or solved (most of the time, at least) could elevate the experience from ho-hum to incredible.

Thanks,

Caleb

 

[nferr]

Not to be contrary, but riding in coach you can't expect a lot of personalized service. Even in the sleepers I've had trouble hearing dining announcements. The PA systems just don't work very well IMO. But if I don't hear a call say five minutes after my reserved time I'll just head to the dining car. And there are times I've missed the attendant taking reservations so I usually just walk to the dining car and make one. You have to take some initiative on a train. And yes in coach sometimes there are no reservations left although they usually will take people on the last call.

As far as the restrooms in coach - people are pigs - period. It's unbelievable. But 60 or so people sharing two restrooms for a long period of time it's pretty inevitable what's going to happen. I never ride coach on an overnight run.

 

[Cale Skye]

Not to be contrary, but riding in coach you can't expect a lot of personalized service. Even in the sleepers I've had trouble hearing dining announcements. The PA systems just don't work very well IMO. But if I don't hear a call say five minutes after my reserved time I'll just head to the dining car. And there are times I've missed the attendant taking reservations so I usually just walk to the dining car and make one. You have to take some initiative on a train. And yes in coach sometimes there are no reservations left although they usually will take people on the last call.

As far as the restrooms in coach - people are pigs - period. It's unbelievable. But 60 or so people sharing two restrooms for a long period of time it's pretty inevitable what's going to happen. I never ride coach on an overnight run.

Your comments make very good sense.

I do play to travel sleeper next trip--as this was my first train trip, I wanted to try Coach, and "go from there."

Thanks,

Caleb Elijah Skye

 

[rrdude]

I've seen more disgusting things, and cleaned them up, on a train than I would ever type in this forum. All you have to do is ask "If I was a customer, what would I expect". Then the answer is very clear. And you "do it", regardless (often) if it is your "job" or not........

As a customer I expect that you wouldn't be elbow deep in **** (literally) one minute and serving me food the next without a complete shower and clothing change in between. That's downright disgusting. I realize that customers are selfish and single-minded, not thinking of that... but it is also YOUR job to think ahead a few steps to make sure that the customer is safe as well as happy.

Saying "I was just trying to make them happy" is as flimsy excuse when compared to "I was just trying to uphold FDA standards in the safety of preparation of food"

I wouldn't even think about doing anything unsanitary like that, (well, except for the coveted "five second rule", but even then I rinsed off the tomato/lettuce/etc.)

Things are better now, than in the past, I hope, I hope, I hope. (from a food safety issue) I mean we ran wide open on the Chief/InterAmerican/Builder/Zephyr with every door and service door open when the AC went out.Many times the dust just rolled thru the diner. And this was before retention toilets too...... yuck.

Illuminated the tables with chemical lights, and served what we could from the diner. Milk wasn't always "cold-cold" (That's were I learned to serve milk, with ice) Salads were big, as were sandwiches.

I have no "flimsy excuses" at all. Like I said, I walked-the-walk, and did what was required. Did we break any rules? Probably every trip I took. (Like shopping for food at the LA Farmers Market) Did we keep our passengers happy? You bet. Sometimes the equipment malfunctions overshadowed every attempt we'd make, and we just had to live with the fact that even though we did our best, the passengers still had a rotten experience on our trip. That just sucked.