Resumption of Amtrak service to Canada (2022-2023 Q2)

[Amtrak25]

I'd be reasonably certain that both Canadian and American customs will want one station in MTL and that would be Central Station. The Adirondack would have to use the route prior to Covid interruption which is via St. Lambert. The St. Lambert stop can be eliminated which would allow customs clearance by both countries at Central Station.

The point is the Rousses Pt sub may be a lost cause due to the CN. They are the biggest obstacle. If Customs is set up at the border on the CP rather than the CN since that is where they always had it prior to the Covid suspension, they do not care which terminal the train has in Montreal. If the politicians roll over and do not force on-train inspections, then consider the Adirondack route dead because nothing will be built at Gare Central.

 

[JWM]

See link in the "Montreal Gazette" from March, 2022 below.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...to-study-customs-clearance-at-central-station

 

[Amtrak25]

See link in the "Montreal Gazette" from March, 2022 below.

https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...to-study-customs-clearance-at-central-station

How nice. They had been "studying" it for many years, shreaded it after a provincial election, started over, and disregards the CN problem. Consultants will spend a few years drawing pictures and presenting it to officals, who will say do this, do that, we don't like this part or that. Then they have to fund construction.

If they really wanted it to happen, they wouldn't have shreaded the plans that were in place.

It will never happen.

 

[jiml]

I'd be reasonably certain that both Canadian and American customs will want one station in MTL and that would be Central Station. The Adirondack would have to use the route prior to Covid interruption which is via St. Lambert. The St. Lambert stop can be eliminated which would allow customs clearance by both countries at Central Station.

Just to second @Amtrak25, it doesn't matter which Montreal station is the one station you're referring to. No Customs inspection by either country was happening in-station prior to the train's discontinuance. I haven't walked around Lucien L'Allier in a couple of years, so can't say whether there'd be room for a facility there or not. The bottom line is no one is going to spend significant capital for one daily train.

 

[jiml]

Now if there was a way to route Amtrak services via Dorval we'd be onto something. Customs officers for both countries are right there.

 

[Amtrak25]

Just to second @Amtrak25, it doesn't matter which Montreal station is the one station you're referring to. No Customs inspection by either country was happening in-station prior to the train's discontinuance. I haven't walked around Lucien L'Allier in a couple of years, so can't say whether there'd be room for a facility there or not. The bottom line is no one is going to spend significant capital for one daily train.

Well maybe two trains, if the Vermonter ever get there,
if CN's improves the Rousses Pt sub north of La Colle to Castle Gardens,
if Vermont funds CN's infrastucture improvements north of St Albans to Cantic, like automating a bridge's operation and remote control of a switch.

 

[flitcraft]

WashDOT is furious with Amtrak over the newly announced delay in resuming the Cascades to Vancouver BC, because the Cascades can't cover the Washington stops north of Seattle till Vancouver is back. Ironically, the quotes from WashDOT in the Seattle Times (firewalled, sorry) complain that Amtrak is prioritizing LD trains like resuming 7 day service on the Empire Builder over the state supported corridor service like the Cascades. Amtrak's excuse is that they are short conductors--however, it appears that the Amtrak job listings out of Seattle do not include conductors.

I've ridden the Cascades north to Vancouver and to Bellingham frequently over the years, and it is a pain to get up there without the train.

 

[Amtrak25]

The Empire Builder only used the "corridor" between Seattle and Everett. Amtrak priortized 7 day a week operation because Congress told them to. WashDOT should be criticizing Amtrak for their half-baked attempts at hiring crew, not attacking the national network.

 

[JWM]

Well maybe two trains, if the Vermonter ever get there,
if CN's improves the Rousses Pt sub north of La Colle to Castle Gardens,
if Vermont funds CN's infrastucture improvements north of St Albans to Cantic, like automating a bridge's operation and remote control of a switch.

As a Vermont resident for 16 years, I have to state that Vermont, while being a great supporter of passenger rail, has a population of 647,000 estimated in 2022. It took years to upgrade the former Rutland Railroad route from Rutland to Bennington so the Ethan Allen could be extended to Burlington. New York and Vermont both subsidize that service. While wanting to extend the Vermonter to Montreal from St. Albans, I doubt if the funds are there for more expediture.

 

[BlackDiamond]

As a Vermont resident for 16 years, I have to state that Vermont, while being a great supporter of passenger rail, has a population of 647,000 estimated in 2022. It took years to upgrade the former Rutland Railroad route from Rutland to Bennington so the Ethan Allen could be extended to Burlington. New York and Vermont both subsidize that service. While wanting to extend the Vermonter to Montreal from St. Albans, I doubt if the funds are there for more expenditure.

Plus a restored Montreal train to be useful would most likely need to run overnight like the old Montrealer which would mean stopping in VT in the middle of the night, not something VT is likely to subsidize. In a country that actually cared about rail service the Montreal train would be a new overnight train in addition to the Vermonter but then Amtrak would have to pay for it itself which isn't going to happen under our present dysfunctional arrangement.

 

[Anderson]

Plus a restored Montreal train to be useful would most likely need to run overnight like the old Montrealer which would mean stopping in VT in the middle of the night, not something VT is likely to subsidize. In a country that actually cared about rail service the Montreal train would be a new overnight train in addition to the Vermonter but then Amtrak would have to pay for it itself which isn't going to happen under our present dysfunctional arrangement.

As always, it depends...

Looking at the best timetable I can find, SAB-NYP is about a 10-hour run (I found one with a 9:55 run SB [1]). It might or might not be accurate, but since Amtrak won't give out a timecard anymore it's what I'm going to work with.

Let's presume that the "no go" hours for a given stop are 0000-0559. I'd note that a straight 12-hour "flip" SB would have every stop in Vermont covered prior to midnight save for Brattleboro, and you'd still get into NYP just after 0600. So this does not seem like an unreasonable schedule. Sliding it around a little bit (and perhaps adding a minimal additional pad at SPG or NHV) would get you into Brattleboro before midnight and hit NYP at just after 0600. NB, it takes a little bit more fiddling, but I think you can either get every stop or close to it outside of the graveyard shift. By the way, one other viable option here would be to just add a few intermediate stops (e.g. the various Springfield Line stops and NRO) as a method of "padding without padding". Given the operational hours, demand would probably be light (but would not, in aggregate, be zero, I suspect).

The bottom line is that Vermont might be willing to sponsor a train that provides access to Montreal in the morning/from Montreal in the evening and which provides access to NYC and points south without killing most or all of a day en route.

Edit: I would note that this was the Montrealer's schedule SB. NB, service to Vermont was pretty well buried in the middle of the night (as a consequence of trying to serve WAS-NYP earlier). I suspect that could be worked around. I'd also note that in an ideal world, VA and VT would be able to talk out a cost-sharing deal on a train since VA has a bit of a problem with "too many routes and too few trains" in the afternoon/evening. Honestly, arranging for a big pad for both of them and running one train Hampton Roads-Washington and another Roanoke/New River-Washington and then sending one off to Montreal while the other goes to Boston isn't actually that unreasonable, and the "new" evening train out of Newport News is timed almost perfectly for the above.


[1] Amtrak - Vermonter Timetable

 

[Amtrak25]

You are right, a 12 hour flip, give or take an hour, would work for every city except Brattleboro.

But unless CN upgrades their track north of La Colle from 10 MPH back to 49MPH, I see no mechanism to make CN do so, and this is all academic. The Quebec consultants can draw pictures and play all they want with pre-clearance facility plans for Montreal Central, it won't have an impact.

 

[west point]

Our family took the Montrealer one Jan to ski at Killington. There was a very large lively group going. Took quite a time getting to hotel. However weather crapped out and rained all snow away. We all fled but Amtrak was able to carry us back on a very crowded southbound. It was NYP before we did not have to share seats. All the skiiers liked being able to get in a non hoteel day skiing. Now how well travel would be in shoulder seasons ?? Summer should be high traffic.

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: A number of posts on Canadian border crossing procedures and requirements have been moved to their own thread at:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...-requirements-and-procedures-on-amtrak.82522/
Please continue the border crossing procedures and requirements discussion on that thread and leave this thread for discussing Resumption of Amtrak service to Canada

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.

 

[jis]

Cascade service to Vancouver BC returning in September...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/amtrak-vancouver-seattle-september-1.6508603

 

[Mailliw]

Full restoration of the Adirondack is still in limbo. At this point I'd be grateful if it went as far as Plattsburgh with a bus connection to Montreal.

https://www.wcax.com/2022/07/13/return-amtrak-adirondack-route-limbo/

 

[enviro5609]

Full restoration of the Adirondack is still in limbo. At this point I'd be grateful if it went as far as Plattsburgh with a bus connection to Montreal.

https://www.wcax.com/2022/07/13/return-amtrak-adirondack-route-limbo/

One silver lining from the article.

Good to see that both Sens. Schumer and Gillibrand signed a letter to Gardner asking about the Adirondack. It reads pretty pointedly. Given the obstacles Amtrak is facing with CN and the track, its going to take that kind of pressure from these kinds of politicians to get any movement.

https://webpubcontent.gray.tv/wcax/docs/2022-07-08 Letter to Amtrak - Adirondack Line FINAL.pdf

 

[Amtrak25]

Stupid article, poorly researched, uniformed quotes from the Chamber of Commerce, then the two US Senators demanding answers from Amtrak. They should instead of or in addition to be going after CN's CEO.

The main problem is CN in Canada, where over half of the 48 route miles are down to 10MPH, new contract with EXO for last mile into Montreal Central needs to be done, and Customs is making an issue of onboard inspections.

They can't relay a train in Plattsburgh, or anywhere north of Saratoga in the US for that matter. 75% of the patronage north of Albany is headed for Montreal.

Greyhound has only seen fit to maintain one frequency on the Boston - Burlington - Montreal route out of the 4 pre-Covid. But most pre-Covid I-87 Northway bus service is back. Adirondack Trailways has 2 frequencies, plus an extra one tri-weekly, and Greyhound has 2 of its original 3 frequencies for the pooled service. Not that Greyhound is run by mental giants, but do they know something we don't - capitalizing on a situation that the Adirondack train is out long term or forever?

And forget the Port Kent ferry. 2 of the 3 boats have been scrapped, the pier at Burlington has been turned into smaller boat rental facility, and they want to lease the terminal to a restaurant. The ferry company is not subsidized, not regulated, and can do whatever it wants.

 

[BlackDiamond]

The bottom line is that Vermont might be willing to sponsor a train that provides access to Montreal in the morning/from Montreal in the evening and which provides access to NYC and points south without killing most or all of a day en route.

That might work if there is preclearance in Montreal for the southbound trip, not so good if they turf passengers out at the border for inspection in the middle of the night.

 

[Oreius]

They need to have a ribbon-cutting ceremony at Penn Station and at Rouses Point when they restart the Adirondack!! That would be cool! I’d go.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Has there been any indication as to which of the two Vancouver Cascades trips will be restored? I found an article specifying that there will initially only be one round trip per day, but it didn't mention which one.

 

[Urban Sky]

Has there been any indication as to which of the two Vancouver Cascades trips will be restored? I found an article specifying that there will initially only be one round trip per day, but it didn't mention which one.

Presumably the one which doesn’t require crew and equipment to layover in Vancouver or station staff to work in split shifts…

 

[zephyr17]

Has there been any indication as to which of the two Vancouver Cascades trips will be restored? I found an article specifying that there will initially only be one round trip per day, but it didn't mention which one.

Almost certainly the 516/519 morning north/evening south pair.

 

[Anderson]

That might work if there is preclearance in Montreal for the southbound trip, not so good if they turf passengers out at the border for inspection in the middle of the night.

If you look at the old Montrealer schedule, the SB crossed the border at about 1900. That's hardly "the middle of the night". Likewise, you'd want to move the NB schedule so it crossed the border sometime around 0900 or 1000 if you wanted to make sure that you hit most or all of Vermont after 0600.

 

[Mailliw]

That schedule still allows for convenient overnight travel between NYC and Montreal/Vermont. Even without preclearance the border crossing is at a reasonable time.