RFP issued for Amfleet I replacement

[Andrew]

I'm actually pleasantly surprised Amtrak is going with cafe lounge cars instead of cafe/coaches given they choose not to have seating in the Avelia Liberty cafe cars. The above chart works out to a 7 car NER trainset: 2 business class cars, 3 economy cars, a cafe car, and an economy cab car.

And what about the length of both Empire and Keystone trains?

 

[frequentflyer]

So is Amtrak going from "coach" to "economy" now?

Still more legroom than a coach seat on a Spirit A320.

 

[AFriendly]

I think it's best to standardize the fleet with a proven design.

Sure, but consider: NJT operates Bombardier MultiLevel cars that are 14' 6" into NYP. Those are 6" taller than a Viewliner. More seats could have been added while operating shorter, lighter trains. I'm thinking that the almost equally proven Viaggio twin could have met the clearance requirement without much modification.

 

[Andrew]

Sure, but consider: NJT operates Bombardier MultiLevel cars that are 14' 6" into NYP. Those are 6" taller than a Viewliner. More seats could have been added while operating shorter, lighter trains. I'm thinking that the almost equally proven Viaggio twin could have met the clearance requirement without much modification.

Wouldn't a Viaggio twin have increased boarding times?

 

[jis]

Sure, but consider: NJT operates Bombardier MultiLevel cars that are 14' 6" into NYP. Those are 6" taller than a Viewliner. More seats could have been added while operating shorter, lighter trains. I'm thinking that the almost equally proven Viaggio twin could have met the clearance requirement without much modification.

It is pretty much done. You have stated your position a dozen times. Do you suppose the order will change if you type it another dozen times?

 

[AFriendly]

Still more legroom than a coach seat on a Spirit A320.

Siemens is quoting 70 to 74 seats per car from what I read. They will be cozier than an Amfleet II but not quite as much as an Amfleet I. A Spirit A320 isn't in this league...by airline standards it is still forward-cabin class room.

 

[jis]

Wait till people start complaining about the reclining mechanism - the European style base moves forward reclining rather than the back reclines back into the lap of the person behind

 

[Dutchrailnut]

who said anything about tilting ?

 

[jis]

who said anything about tilting ?

The seats, not the car. A more proper word to use would have been reclining Duly corrected in the original. Thank you!

 

[jiml]

Wait till people start complaining about the tilting mechanism - the European style base moves forward tilting rather than the back tilts back into the lap of the person behind

That's becoming a common design of airline seats as well.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The seats, not the car. A more proper word to use would have been reclining Duly corrected in the original. Thank you!

That makes more sense. I was having a hard time wrapping my brain around your original post.

 

[Andrew]

Maybe Amtrak should have ordered 6 car double decker trains instead of 7 car single level trains.

 

[Cal]

Maybe Amtrak should have ordered 6 car double decker trains instead of 7 car single level trains.

Unless they want to go with the Bombardier Multi-Level cars they'd have to get a new design or a modified European one. I think single level cars are fine.

 

[Mailliw]

Any bilevel car is going to run into accessiblity issues, specifically the ability for disabled passengers to easily move between cars. Venture Coaches are designed to provide access to the entire trainset. The benefits of single level trains outway the disadvantages.

 

[joelkfla]

Still more legroom than a coach seat on a Spirit A320.

So does the back seat of my mini-SUV.

 

[jadebenn]

Interesting how Siemens, by simply being in the right place at the right time, is going to standardize pretty much everything but the commuter trains and Amtrak LDs at 50" high platforms.

I mean sure, not like there's any plan to rebuild the low-platform stations for level boarding at the moment, but it could have some interesting effects down the line...

 

[tbk]

Hello all from Austria, I just joined.
It looks like there will be a dual power version (electric and diesel-electric) for partly electrified lines and a diesel-battery hybrid version for non-electrified lines. How many trains of each type are ordered?
I guess having a battery will allow regenerative braking (rather than just generating heat in resistors) and providing air conditioning in stations without a noisy diesel engine running.
How about trains completely under electric wires such as Northeast Regional? It would make sense to use the ACS-64 locomotives for those, they are new enough and working fine. So is part of the order coach sets without locomotive?
Will night trains keep Amfleet II cars?

 

[Intercity]

Interesting how Siemens, by simply being in the right place at the right time, is going to standardize pretty much everything but the commuter trains and Amtrak LDs at 50" high platforms.

The Brightline sets are designed for boarding 48” above Top of Rail. Now I’m curious what the level boarding height is on the Midwest, CalTrans, and Via Rail sets is.

Are any of NE Regional stations low level platforms? Wondering if we’ll see the first Venture cars with no stairs and no gap filler on this order.

 

[me_little_me]

Looks like the're coming to the PNW first.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amtrak-plan-to-replace-dozens-of-aging-trains-cost-7-3b/
“We look forward to the delivery of the new trains for Amtrak Cascades service. They will enhance the passenger experience on one of the most beautiful train routes in the country,” said Ron Pate, Washington State Department of Transportation Director of Rail, Freight and Ports. “Since our trains will be the first off the assembly line, it’s exciting they’ll be unveiled in the Pacific Northwest.”

They get to be the ones that work out the bugs.

 

[Trogdor]

The Brightline sets are designed for 48” above Top of Rail. Now I’m curious what the level boarding height is on the Midwest, CalTrans, and Via Rail sets is.

Are any of NE Regional stations low level platforms? Wondering if we’ll see the first Venture cars with no stairs and no gap filler on this order.

There are several NEC stations with low-level platforms. I can’t list them off the top of my head, but I recall Aberdeen, MD, some place out between NYP and BOS (Westerly, RI, maybe?), plus places south of WAS such as Alexandria, and even some platforms at WAS itself.

 

[cocojacoby]

Siemens is quoting 70 to 74 seats per car from what I read. They will be cozier than an Amfleet II but not quite as much as an Amfleet I. A Spirit A320 isn't in this league...by airline standards it is still forward-cabin class room.

I will assume that these cars will have permanently fixed seats. Yeah half of us will be forced to ride backwards - like it or not. Since the seats today have to be spaced far enough apart for turning, these will not need that much space so expect less legroom.

 

[jis]

Interesting how Siemens, by simply being in the right place at the right time, is going to standardize pretty much everything but the commuter trains and Amtrak LDs at 50" high platforms.

I mean sure, not like there's any plan to rebuild the low-platform stations for level boarding at the moment, but it could have some interesting effects down the line...

Not all, but many of the low level platforms are slated to get high level platforms over time. It is to be partly funded through ADA line items and partly from general funds.

I will assume that these cars will have permanently fixed seats. Yeah half of us will be forced to ride backwards - like it or not. Since the seats today have to be spaced far enough apart for turning, these will not need that much space so expect less legroom.

If it is like Brightline's Smart Class (which is what they call their Coach Class) they have two rows of seat per window and they have ten windows per side. Amtrak has specified 74 seats, so either they have a slightly greater pitch or they have open floor space for wheelchair and baggage. But the bottom line is that the seat pitch will be more or less the same as in Amfleet Is.Amfleet Is have about the same number of seats in the same length of compartment.

I suspect Amtrak's pitch will be similar and close to those in Amfleet I Coaches. Afterall these are replacements for Amfleet Is, not Amfleet IIs or Superliners.

 

[NES28]

Another interesting tidbit that appeared in today's Railway Gazette International feed is the order "includes 50 electro-diesel sets and 15 diesel-battery sets, with the rest [8] being EPA Tier 4 compliant diesels capable of using biodiesel fuel. The batteries can be charged from regenerated braking energy, the diesel engine or an external supply.
There are options for up to 140 more trainsets and further maintenance agreements.
The trains are intended to operate on the Northeast Corridor and various state-supported routes including those in Maine, Massachusetts, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. Amtrak said it expects the increased capacity and ability to shorten trip times to increase ridership by more than 1·5 million passengers/year."

My guess is that the 8 pure diesel sets will go to Washington and Maine, the 15 diesel-battery sets will go to New York, with the 50 electro-diesel sets going to NEC. The dual mode capabilities should provide greatly increased reliability, allowing trains to keep moving in the event of catenary problems or diesel engine failure. I wonder whether the diesel-battery sets will have a pantograph to facilitate battery charging; I suspect not. Is the basis for the reduced trip time claim the elimination of engine changes at DC for trains to/from the South and at Albany for trains to/from the West?

 

[jis]

I had no idea that NIST is involved in the business of rail car standards too...

https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/mep/specs_single_level_passenger_rail_car.pdf
This is the base standard that has subsequently been slightly modified to incorporate real world experience from Siemens.

 

[NES28]

Interesting how Siemens, by simply being in the right place at the right time, is going to standardize pretty much everything but the commuter trains and Amtrak LDs at 50" high platforms.

I mean sure, not like there's any plan to rebuild the low-platform stations for level boarding at the moment, but it could have some interesting effects down the line...

High level platforms (generally at 48 inches above top of rail) have been spreading around the country in the years since U.S. DOT's publication of level boarding requirements and inclusion in many Federally-funded projects. These now include stations at most Upstate NY cities, Springfield, and, now Worcester (MA), Raleigh, Charlotte, Roanoke, Brightline, and will include Texas Central and CAHSR. If Superliners are eventually replaced by single-level cars this will become the de facto U.S. standard.